Drayton Wiser - Hints and Tips Thread

[B'stard Child]

Regbuser said:

Fastdruid said:

Interestingly on the subject of batteries mine has just started reporting low battery on the one of the TRV's.... at 40% after 10 months. I'm not sure when to actually change though, 40% remaining feels a bit "early" but then I don't know at what percentage they'll stop working.

I only replace when stating critically low.

^ WHS - they start alerting way too early - one of mine took 2 months before it needed replacing (But it was the one in the same room as the hub)

[AW10]

B'stard Child said:

So now as a result of something I read on here and now can't find (so I can't credit the person who said it) I've removed one Smart TRV and replaced it with a dumb one - that TRV now has the same heating schedule time wise as all the other TRV's but has a target temp of 25 Deg C for all the scheduled heating periods.

Tried it tonight and I'm pretty sure it's working as intended - need to check for a longer period but now Wiser doesn't turn off the heating/Boiler if any of the rooms are coming up to temp because it still has a TRV calling for heat - this means my Living room which is a compromised layout of 1 rad at one end actually gets to temp)

I'm confused about the above. The dumb TRV can't call for heat, right? Is that as it's set so high that rad keeps dumping heat into its room whenever another other smart TRV or thermostat is calling for heat?

PS. Thanks for the post relating battery life to distance from the hub - useful stuff. Could you now please do a cost/benefit analysis on adding repeaters in strategic locations to increase battery life?

[B'stard Child]

AW10 said:

B'stard Child said:

So now as a result of something I read on here and now can't find (so I can't credit the person who said it) I've removed one Smart TRV and replaced it with a dumb one - that TRV now has the same heating schedule time wise as all the other TRV's but has a target temp of 25 Deg C for all the scheduled heating periods.

Tried it tonight and I'm pretty sure it's working as intended - need to check for a longer period but now Wiser doesn't turn off the heating/Boiler if any of the rooms are coming up to temp because it still has a TRV calling for heat - this means my Living room which is a compromised layout of 1 rad at one end actually gets to temp)

I'm confused about the above. The dumb TRV can't call for heat, right? Is that as it's set so high that rad keeps dumping heat into its room whenever another other smart TRV or thermostat is calling for heat?

Rad with Smart TRV - Removed smart TRV - replaced with dumb TRV

Smart TRV is now in same room as dumb TRV so I can make sure the dumb TRV doesn't overheat the room (it's been a while since I used one and I forget what setting I need for 18 deg)

SMART trv set to 25 Deg C on same schedule as rest of TRV's - it's in same room and it will never get to that temp so now it's constantly calling for heat that it doesn't get and it's stops Wiser from turning my boiler off

AW10 said:

PS. Thanks for the post relating battery life to distance from the hub - useful stuff. Could you now please do a cost/benefit analysis on adding repeaters in strategic locations to increase battery life?

I could do that but I actually added them for other reasons - the repeater function was an added benefit which I am treating as a no cost solution

PS I used to frequently get dropped TRV signals in the rooms furthest from the hub - since repeaters have been installed I haven't had one drop out.

[Regbuser]

On the CH thread, there's a lot of tweaking going on !

I've found that putting wiser into eco mode, and letting it do it's stuff, does bring the rooms up to temp with minimum overshoot without excessive boiler cycling.

Edited by Regbuser on Thursday 30th November 11:31

[B'stard Child]

Regbuser said:

On the CH thread, there's a lot of tweaking going on !

I've found that putting wiser into eco mode, and letting it do it's stuff, does bring the rooms up to temp with minimum overshoot and excessive boiler cycling.

I've found that the eco and comfort modes don't help at all but I'm still refining my boiler parameters to get the heating running efficiently and effectively

I will try the eco and comfort modes when I've got it running in normal mode

[alangla]

B'stard Child said:

I've found that the eco and comfort modes don't help at all but I'm still refining my boiler parameters to get the heating running efficiently and effectively

I will try the eco and comfort modes when I've got it running in normal mode

Mine doesn’t seem to use Eco mode at all just now, though it did last winter. Comfort mode works great for me where I’ve got rooms that are off during the day and heat in the evening or vice versa, it seems to hit the target on time pretty much every time even with wildly different start temperatures day-to-day.

[Fastdruid]

Regbuser said:

On the CH thread, there's a lot of tweaking going on !

I've found that putting wiser into eco mode, and letting it do it's stuff, does bring the rooms up to temp with minimum overshoot and excessive boiler cycling.

We've got ours on comfort mode. Genuinely have no idea if it's made any "savings" but that was never the intention.

Previously with the basic timer we'd end up boosting it a lot, it would get very cold during the day and then take an age getting back up to temperature when kids etc got back from school. Then when it was really cold out would have it set to always on which would then inevitably end up at times with it being too hot and have to mess with the thermostat.

Now I think we've overridden it about twice and not touched the set points. It's set to a lower temperature for the non-habited rooms during the day, a lower still temperature overnight (and when we're regularly out) and is overall more pleasant.

[London1986]

B'stard Child said:

Is that rad the furthest from the hub or has more walls to get thro?

I could be really sad here but I have a table of my battery life for all my TRV's and that tells me distance/walls have an impact

Thanks for resurrecting this thread again and sharing your experience so far, and especially for sharing your nerdy table I tend to go to spreadsheets for things like this too so appreciate the time and effort you've put in.

I've just replaced my first set of batteries in one of my TRVs, all the other TRVs are fine, and interestingly this particular TRV is the furthest away from the hub which supports your theory.

My experience so far has been pretty good, few teething issues but the support is pretty good.

Like yourself, I stay well clear of eco and comfort modes, found them just too unreliable.

I've actually reduced the amount of TRV's I started with in favour of dumb TRVs just because some rooms didn't need to be on a schedule and I found by heating rooms that weren't in use did help neighbouring rooms, or rooms above.

I did have one room in particular that got very cold and as a result was always up to 4-5 degrees out from what the Wiser app temp was recording in the app. E.g. Wiser app was reporting 20 degrees but actual room could have been 16 degrees, so the TRV wouldn't call for heat as it believed the temp to be 20 degrees. Investing in another room stat for that room helped solve the problem by reporting more accurate temps in the app.

[London1986]

alangla said:

Mine has started doing this, either the valves are sticking partially open or Wiser isn’t closing them properly, but the effect is that my study, which is only meant to be heated during the day, has a radiator that’s warm (not hot) whenever the system is on and the Insights graph shows it as hotter in there at night than during the day! Tried recalibrating the TRV heads, also tried banging the TRV bodies in case they are actually stuck, but it only seems to clear it for a day or so. Wondering if maybe there’s been a firmware upgrade or something that’s caused this?

This has happened to me a few times since and have spoken to Wiser about this too.

Your assumptions in your first sentence are correct.

First thing is to do a quick recalibration when you spot that the rads haven't turned off. That's the first port of call.

Second thing is to remove the head and check the pin isn't sticking. This was the case with a few of mine so a bit of GT85 or similar lubricant and some linesman pliers did the job of loosening the pin.

Thirdly, check the battery isn't low as that will affect the TRV's ability to close the rad. Here is an extract from one of their responses to me in the past...

"The Radiator Thermostat will use their batteries power progressively and the batteries voltage will decrease accordingly. This usually starts at about 3.0 ~ 3.2V and decreases as the iTRV continues to go through the battery.

As the voltage decreases, the amount of force that the iTRV applies to the pin decreases as it lacks the power to do so. The threshold for when the iTRV will definitely experience motor issues is at 2.5V, and your device is currently at 2.7V.

Whilst above the threshold for a 'critically low battery', we do expect there to be some issues with the pin being kept closed at around 2.7V. Therefore, this might be the reason that the iTRV is not quite keeping hot water out."

Hopefully one of those should sort the issue

[alangla]

London1986 said:

This has happened to me a few times since and have spoken to Wiser about this too.

Your assumptions in your first sentence are correct.

First thing is to do a quick recalibration when you spot that the rads haven't turned off. That's the first port of call.

Second thing is to remove the head and check the pin isn't sticking. This was the case with a few of mine so a bit of GT85 or similar lubricant and some linesman pliers did the job of loosening the pin.

Thirdly, check the battery isn't low as that will affect the TRV's ability to close the rad. Here is an extract from one of their responses to me in the past...

"The Radiator Thermostat will use their batteries power progressively and the batteries voltage will decrease accordingly. This usually starts at about 3.0 ~ 3.2V and decreases as the iTRV continues to go through the battery.

As the voltage decreases, the amount of force that the iTRV applies to the pin decreases as it lacks the power to do so. The threshold for when the iTRV will definitely experience motor issues is at 2.5V, and your device is currently at 2.7V.

Whilst above the threshold for a 'critically low battery', we do expect there to be some issues with the pin being kept closed at around 2.7V. Therefore, this might be the reason that the iTRV is not quite keeping hot water out."

Hopefully one of those should sort the issue

Thanks, that’s really useful. I’m going to have a go at freeing off some of the TRVs tomorrow, the response you got from Drayton certainly sounds likely as most of mine are approaching a year old and some still have the original batteries. As an aside, used Wiser batteries usually still have a reasonable amount of power left in them and seem to work perfectly fine in Christmas lights!

[B'stard Child]

London1986 said:

B'stard Child said:

Is that rad the furthest from the hub or has more walls to get thro?

I could be really sad here but I have a table of my battery life for all my TRV's and that tells me distance/walls have an impact

Thanks for resurrecting this thread again and sharing your experience so far, and especially for sharing your nerdy table I tend to go to spreadsheets for things like this too so appreciate the time and effort you've put in.

Thanks - I Think!!!

London1986 said:

I've just replaced my first set of batteries in one of my TRVs, all the other TRVs are fine, and interestingly this particular TRV is the furthest away from the hub which supports your theory.

The data supports the data IMO

London1986 said:

My experience so far has been pretty good, few teething issues but the support is pretty good.

I haven't has to use support - I have enough issues with my bloody boiler

London1986 said:

Like yourself, I stay well clear of eco and comfort modes, found them just too unreliable.

They are just another complication thrown into the mix which muddy the water and it's like the thames aleady

London1986 said:

I've actually reduced the amount of TRV's I started with in favour of dumb TRVs just because some rooms didn't need to be on a schedule and I found by heating rooms that weren't in use did help neighbouring rooms, or rooms above.

I'm leaning towards binning off the Wiser TRV's in the rooms with 3 external walls as they lose heat faster and trigger the CH

London1986 said:

I did have one room in particular that got very cold and as a result was always up to 4-5 degrees out from what the Wiser app temp was recording in the app. E.g. Wiser app was reporting 20 degrees but actual room could have been 16 degrees, so the TRV wouldn't call for heat as it believed the temp to be 20 degrees. Investing in another room stat for that room helped solve the problem by reporting more accurate temps in the app.

I really would like wiser more if you could have an offset to program in based on true temp and I'm in agreement putting a room stat in every room where wiser TRV's are in accurate is an expensive solution to a problem that could be solved with an offset adjustment

[imck]

25+ year old Ideal boiler. 9 Rads, 1 towel rail and a wet plinth heater.
1930s semi extended sideways. Not very deep with a lot of windows.

Installed our Wiser with 5 TRVs in the most used rooms last October
All batteries are reporting low. Replaced one set when I moved a TRV to another room. Will leave the others.

Running comfort mode. It is comfortable!
£210/month dual FWIW. Ovo app telling me £9 on gas yesterday. Lowest in Nov about £4.

Mrs Imck works from home. Moved her from the biggest room in the house to the box room in April.
That is kept warm. Have had to set to 22. Cheap digital thermometer only reporting around 19 on the other side of the room (2.5 x 2M)
Have tweaked Wiser for comfort.

Very recently added 3 more TRVs via an offer from Wiser after completing a survey.
That completely messed up the heat report on my Android A phone.
Graph only showed old TRVs. Room list only showed the new ones but could not select them. Tried logging out/in. Ended up uninstalling and reinstalling the app. Seems to have sorted it
On Mrs Imcks iPhone 13, it just added them in.

[London1986]

alangla said:

As an aside, used Wiser batteries usually still have a reasonable amount of power left in them and seem to work perfectly fine in Christmas lights!

Yes exactly, that's what I found too.

After Wiser telling me my batteries are "critically low", I replaced them but when tested in my battery tester, they were still showing as plenty of life in them.

[London1986]

B'stard Child said:

I really would like wiser more if you could have an offset to program in based on true temp and I'm in agreement putting a room stat in every room where wiser TRV's are in accurate is an expensive solution to a problem that could be solved with an offset adjustment

Regarding the rooms that report inaccurate temps, do you find these are always consistently inaccurate? E.g. always 3 degrees out?

I used to wish for the same as you, an ability to offset the temp in the app in this one particular (poorly insulated) room. However then I found the inaccuracy wasn't always consistent. For example, when the outside temp was warmer, the app temp accurately matched the room temp, however the colder it got outside, the bigger the difference in actual room temp vs reported temp in the app. On very cold days last winter there was up to a 6 degrees discrepancy at one point which was just ridiculous. That's when I realised that the ability to offset the temp just wouldn't be useful.

After months of being annoyed at the accuracy, I bit the bullet and bought another room stat (second hand of eBay for half the price). I'm glad I did as the temp is always spot on now

[B'stard Child]

London1986 said:

B'stard Child said:

I really would like wiser more if you could have an offset to program in based on true temp and I'm in agreement putting a room stat in every room where wiser TRV's are in accurate is an expensive solution to a problem that could be solved with an offset adjustment

Regarding the rooms that report inaccurate temps, do you find these are always consistently inaccurate? E.g. always 3 degrees out?

I used to wish for the same as you, an ability to offset the temp in the app in this one particular (poorly insulated) room. However then I found the inaccuracy wasn't always consistent. For example, when the outside temp was warmer, the app temp accurately matched the room temp, however the colder it got outside, the bigger the difference in actual room temp vs reported temp in the app. On very cold days last winter there was up to a 6 degrees discrepancy at one point which was just ridiculous. That's when I realised that the ability to offset the temp just wouldn't be useful.

After months of being annoyed at the accuracy, I bit the bullet and bought another room stat (second hand of eBay for half the price). I'm glad I did as the temp is always spot on now

Room factors influence the inaccuracy - example my study (OK 4th bedroom or box room) North facing 3 external walls - TRV over states the temp by 2 deg (compared to stand alone monitor) so losses are quite high in this room

I swapped a few TRV's around thinking that if some TRV's were over reading and some under reading I could balance it out by swapping them around - made no bloody difference

Downstairs toilet - narrow room small window on equally small external wall TRV understates the temp by 1 deg but the TRV is on a rad that is mounted on an internal wall - other side of the wall is a T22 rad which is way too big for the front hall but it wasn't that old and was relocated there rather than throw it away. Both areas are heated at the same time - my view is the front hall / toilet wall quickly soaks up the heat.............

So in summary whilst it would be nice to be able to "tweak the TRV" to show a true room temp I heat rooms to different temperatures anyway so I just compensate in the app with the room set points

I'd love a room stat in every room but that's an expensive solution to a problem that you can work around

JM2pW

[London1986]

n

B'stard Child said:

So in summary whilst it would be nice to be able to "tweak the TRV" to show a true room temp I heat rooms to different temperatures anyway so I just compensate in the app with the room set points.

I'd love a room stat in every room but that's an expensive solution to a problem that you can work around

Ok I see what you mean, it seems in your scenario the discrepancy is consistent. e.g. always 1-2 degrees out. In this scenario yes I agree with you, something you can work around.

However in my scenario above, where the discrepancy would always change depending on how cold the external weather was, the only workaround was to invest in a room stat. It was just too unreliable to work with. I even considered ripping out the wiser TRV and putting a dumb TRV in, at least it would be consistent!

[B'stard Child]

London1986 said:

n

B'stard Child said:

So in summary whilst it would be nice to be able to "tweak the TRV" to show a true room temp I heat rooms to different temperatures anyway so I just compensate in the app with the room set points.

I'd love a room stat in every room but that's an expensive solution to a problem that you can work around

Ok I see what you mean, it seems in your scenario the discrepancy is consistent. e.g. always 1-2 degrees out. In this scenario yes I agree with you, something you can work around.

However in my scenario above, where the discrepancy would always change depending on how cold the external weather was, the only workaround was to invest in a room stat. It was just too unreliable to work with. I even considered ripping out the wiser TRV and putting a dumb TRV in, at least it would be consistent!

I'm considering doing the same in a couple of areas where I don't need the control accuracy of the smart TRV's I just need for the CH to apply some heat to the area whenever the heating is running.

[Fore Left]

Today Only. Wiser TRVs for £24.27

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/drayton-wiser-sma...

Fill yer boots

[S6PNJ]

Cheers for the heads-up - but only one per person (or is it per order?).

[Fastdruid]

Fore Left said:

Today Only. Wiser TRVs for £24.27

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/drayton-wiser-sma...

Fill yer boots

Nice. I've ordered one. Only one as need to apply the discount to get down to £24.27 and only one per customer.