Tenant broken boiler, refusing me access to check it
Discussion
The_Nugget said:
In my opinion, allowing them to get their engineer is a mistake.
You are allowing your desire to inspect the property to override a perhaps better route.
Trying to save money on the engineer visit could backfire.
My view is still that I would attempt to get the repair and safety inspection done at the same time.
The tenant would struggle to object if the engineer is already in the house.
Sadly based on other advice I've already picked a route and for now I need to persist down that route and stick to my guns. Which is not to say that I don't appreciate your input or that I'm completely ignoring it. At this stage if I arrange an engineer it looks like I'm chopping and changing my mind and makes it look like I don't know what I'm doing. I may not know what I'm doing, but I don't want the tenants to know that.You are allowing your desire to inspect the property to override a perhaps better route.
Trying to save money on the engineer visit could backfire.
My view is still that I would attempt to get the repair and safety inspection done at the same time.
The tenant would struggle to object if the engineer is already in the house.
I have every confidence that the tenant would prevent an engineer from accessing any other part of the property other than where the boiler is located. So if I arrange an engineer, they'll end up with the boiler fixed and I'll be no further forward.
Thats What She Said said:
You've shot yourself in the foot by allowing them to take control of it. It's not in their best interests to keep the costs down. They will likely call someone like British Gas who will charge £xxx to fix it (no doubt they will need to replace X/Y/Z on the boiler to get it working). Alternaitively you could have arranged for a local indy to take a look and fix it for £xx.
Either get it sorted yourself and take responibility for it, or be prepared to bend over for British Gas.
It doesn't matter how much it's going to cost, they've agreed to pay for the repair.Either get it sorted yourself and take responibility for it, or be prepared to bend over for British Gas.
Surely if someone like British Gas contacts me with a big bill, I'll reject the work on the basis of wanting to get a second opinion/quote from another engineer.
TheBinarySheep said:
The_Nugget said:
In my opinion, allowing them to get their engineer is a mistake.
You are allowing your desire to inspect the property to override a perhaps better route.
Trying to save money on the engineer visit could backfire.
My view is still that I would attempt to get the repair and safety inspection done at the same time.
The tenant would struggle to object if the engineer is already in the house.
Sadly based on other advice I've already picked a route and for now I need to persist down that route and stick to my guns. Which is not to say that I don't appreciate your input or that I'm completely ignoring it. At this stage if I arrange an engineer it looks like I'm chopping and changing my mind and makes it look like I don't know what I'm doing. I may not know what I'm doing, but I don't want the tenants to know that.You are allowing your desire to inspect the property to override a perhaps better route.
Trying to save money on the engineer visit could backfire.
My view is still that I would attempt to get the repair and safety inspection done at the same time.
The tenant would struggle to object if the engineer is already in the house.
I have every confidence that the tenant would prevent an engineer from accessing any other part of the property other than where the boiler is located. So if I arrange an engineer, they'll end up with the boiler fixed and I'll be no further forward.
TheBinarySheep said:
Sadly based on other advice I've already picked a route and for now I need to persist down that route and stick to my guns. Which is not to say that I don't appreciate your input or that I'm completely ignoring it. At this stage if I arrange an engineer it looks like I'm chopping and changing my mind and makes it look like I don't know what I'm doing. I may not know what I'm doing, but I don't want the tenants to know that.
I have every confidence that the tenant would prevent an engineer from accessing any other part of the property other than where the boiler is located. So if I arrange an engineer, they'll end up with the boiler fixed and I'll be no further forward.
Everyone has advice, you have to make the decisions.I have every confidence that the tenant would prevent an engineer from accessing any other part of the property other than where the boiler is located. So if I arrange an engineer, they'll end up with the boiler fixed and I'll be no further forward.
An engineer worth his salt will have to go round the property to check that the radiators are coming on etc anyway.
I would say, no problem with changing your mind either. This tenant is clearly gaming the system. There must be a way to evict without the cert or ability to force the inspection though otherwise no tenant would pay any rent and they’d just refuse the inspection.
I don’t know what that is, but if I were you I’d focus on that and maybe get some suitable (formal) legal advice and focus on getting rid.
DoubleD said:
Turn up with the engineer
That will just cause conflict and doubt would cast the Op in good light in the future if there were ever a court case.OP, you need to make friends with a suitably qualified engineer!
If you post a bit more about the location, I bet there is someone on here that is qualified and would do it,,,
TheBinarySheep said:
It doesn't matter how much it's going to cost, they've agreed to pay for the repair.
Surely if someone like British Gas contacts me with a big bill, I'll reject the work on the basis of wanting to get a second opinion/quote from another engineer.
Just know that this is also part of their game.Surely if someone like British Gas contacts me with a big bill, I'll reject the work on the basis of wanting to get a second opinion/quote from another engineer.
“Landlord wouldn’t send or pay for an engineer to fix my heating on the coldest part of the year. I was days without hot water and heating for my poor little 5 year old cousin”
The_Nugget said:
That will just cause conflict and doubt would cast the Op in good light in the future if there were ever a court case.
OP, you need to make friends with a suitably qualified engineer!
If you post a bit more about the location, I bet there is someone on here that is qualified and would do it,,,
I'm pretty friendly with the engineer we've always used, so I have no problem seeing if he has time this week to do the cert and tell the tenant we'll be down to do it. She may allow him access, but she will refuse me any access. The problem is, given the threats in her email I'd want to accompany the engineer to be his witness just incase the boyfriend gets shirty with him or she makes something up about him sniffing her underwear. Which at that point she'll deny us both access.OP, you need to make friends with a suitably qualified engineer!
If you post a bit more about the location, I bet there is someone on here that is qualified and would do it,,,
At the minute we're going to hope they don't pay febs rent, and follow through with a section 8 giving them four weeks notice.
TheBinarySheep said:
I'm pretty friendly with the engineer we've always used, so I have no problem seeing if he has time this week to do the cert and tell the tenant we'll be down to do it. She may allow him access, but she will refuse me any access. The problem is, given the threats in her email I'd want to accompany the engineer to be his witness just incase the boyfriend gets shirty with him or she makes something up about him sniffing her underwear. Which at that point she'll deny us both access.
At the minute we're going to hope they don't pay febs rent, and follow through with a section 8 giving them four weeks notice.
He only goes in if you do. If she refuses then she stays cold. At the minute we're going to hope they don't pay febs rent, and follow through with a section 8 giving them four weeks notice.
WonkeyDonkey said:
Surely if she gets her own engineer then it's her paying?
This is why I could never be a landlord, I would be too soft and these career scumbags would walk all over me. You need to be firm and aggressive to stop people trying to take advantage.
she cant pay for anything. the talk is her getting her engineer and sending the OP an invoice. This is why I could never be a landlord, I would be too soft and these career scumbags would walk all over me. You need to be firm and aggressive to stop people trying to take advantage.
its very clear to anyone reading this thread she is absolutely pulling every stunt in the book to avoid the OP coming into that property......if she had nothing to hide .......then she wouldn't be behaving that way.
it will be a matter of how much damage has been done to the place....its a damage limitation exercise at this point.
The_Nugget said:
In my opinion, allowing them to get their engineer is a mistake.
You are allowing your desire to inspect the property to override a perhaps better route.
Trying to save money on the engineer visit could backfire.
My view is still that I would attempt to get the repair and safety inspection done at the same time.
The tenant would struggle to object if the engineer is already in the house.
Yup. OP needs to forget about inspecting the property and arrange a gas man on the brief that he does the safety check on the hob and fire before touching the boiler. If she plays silly buggers on access to any of the gas appliances he caps the gas at the meter. The priority for the OP should be getting a valid gas safety cert out of this situation so the bYou are allowing your desire to inspect the property to override a perhaps better route.
Trying to save money on the engineer visit could backfire.
My view is still that I would attempt to get the repair and safety inspection done at the same time.
The tenant would struggle to object if the engineer is already in the house.
h can’t use it as an angle to try block or delay an eviction.... she’s setting him right up and this will likely end up getting twisted into ‘he left us with a faulty boiler that hadn’t had its gas safety check, he wanted to fix it himself when he’s not gas safe and he refused to authorise the engineer we arranged’... even the way the OP has described the situation in this thread it does come across like his priority is inspecting the property rather than ensuring the boiler is safe and functional.Make sure the insurance is up to date and torch the place.
Obviously don't.
But this thread has really annoyed me. fking scumbags are absolutely taking the piss and playing the system.
I hope you get it all sorted, but aside from lending you a petrol canister, I'm afraid I can't help.
Obviously don't.
But this thread has really annoyed me. f
king scumbags are absolutely taking the piss and playing the system. I hope you get it all sorted, but aside from lending you a petrol canister, I'm afraid I can't help.
Black_S3 said:
Yup. OP needs to forget about inspecting the property and arrange a gas man on the brief that he does the safety check on the hob and fire before touching the boiler. If she plays silly buggers on access to any of the gas appliances he caps the gas at the meter. The priority for the OP should be getting a valid gas safety cert out of this situation so the bh can’t use it as an angle to try block or delay an eviction.... she’s setting him right up and this will likely end up getting twisted into ‘he left us with a faulty boiler that hadn’t had its gas safety check, he wanted to fix it himself when he’s not gas safe and he refused to authorise the engineer we arranged’... even the way the OP has described the situation in this thread it does come across like his priority is inspecting the property rather than ensuring the boiler is safe and functional.
In my defence. I did say I would be telling the tenant that I'd arrange an engineer, but it went against all of the advice I'd received on here from people in the know, so I didn't.h can’t use it as an angle to try block or delay an eviction.... she’s setting him right up and this will likely end up getting twisted into ‘he left us with a faulty boiler that hadn’t had its gas safety check, he wanted to fix it himself when he’s not gas safe and he refused to authorise the engineer we arranged’... even the way the OP has described the situation in this thread it does come across like his priority is inspecting the property rather than ensuring the boiler is safe and functional.All I've been doing is trying to follow the advice given here as best I can.
Either way, if I arrange an engineer to fix the boiler, then I'll be attending with him as a witness and to provide some safeguarding for him, especially given the threats about her boyfriend.
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Sunday 10th January 11:57
TheBinarySheep said:
Wings said:
It is always preferable for a landlord/agent to make an appointment to either inspect, attend a boiler and/or another type of repair, then to attend in person at the appointed time. Only then, by the tenant refusing access to the landlord/agent/contractor etc., will the court recognise that the tenant has refused access.
In the OP's situation, I would be talking to local neighbours of the rental property, and try to obtain some local information on the tenant/s, occupants, property etc.
I would already have served a Section 8 Notice on the tenant, 4 weeks Notice for over 6 months rental arrears, under 6 months arrears 6 months Notice. Section 21 Notice if preferred needs a 6 months Notice, but is in force for 10 months
Lots of hurdles a landlord needs to cross before a valid Notice can be served, and if in doubt the OP should ensure any Deposit monies are protected, either under the original Assured Tenancy Agreement, and/or a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.
Apart from the Deposit monies being protected, at the start of any Tenancy Agreement, the tenant/s should receive a copy of the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, HMG's How to Rent leaflet, and since June 2020 a copy of the Electrical Safety Certificate.
In thirty plus years of being a landlord, I have only ever had one tenant refuse me inspection access to a property, that end with the property being completely trashed, with many months of unpaid rent, and police in attendance when the bailiffs removed the tenants.
Apologies, I missed this one.In the OP's situation, I would be talking to local neighbours of the rental property, and try to obtain some local information on the tenant/s, occupants, property etc.
I would already have served a Section 8 Notice on the tenant, 4 weeks Notice for over 6 months rental arrears, under 6 months arrears 6 months Notice. Section 21 Notice if preferred needs a 6 months Notice, but is in force for 10 months
Lots of hurdles a landlord needs to cross before a valid Notice can be served, and if in doubt the OP should ensure any Deposit monies are protected, either under the original Assured Tenancy Agreement, and/or a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.
Apart from the Deposit monies being protected, at the start of any Tenancy Agreement, the tenant/s should receive a copy of the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, HMG's How to Rent leaflet, and since June 2020 a copy of the Electrical Safety Certificate.
In thirty plus years of being a landlord, I have only ever had one tenant refuse me inspection access to a property, that end with the property being completely trashed, with many months of unpaid rent, and police in attendance when the bailiffs removed the tenants.
You suggest raising a section 8 notice. The tenant is 5 month in arrears, would you suggest raising a section 8 now anyway giving 6 month notice, or wait until next month, hope they don't make a rent payment and then issue a section 8 giving 4 weeks notice?
I've drove past the property a couple of times, it looks ok outside other than some rubbish and an old fridge/freezer in the yard. We used to live in the property so we still know the neighbours. There were some concerns initially from a neighbour about screaming and shouting during the night, but she didn't want us to get involved and was handling it herself. The local council have some concerns about the female tenant which relate to abuse/domestic abuse, so we suspect that she has an abusive/protective partner (based on the information we've gathered).
Any deposit paid by the tenant was put in the DPS (https://depositprotection.com/switch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA6Or_BRC_ARIsAPzuer_aYp_JfeGZGvQnvrAGBk4KYYAtJL5qHSPwA-4E1ggFYEAzZ5kgmcEaAkPTEALw_wcB) as soon as we received it. The tenancy started in May 2020 so the tenant was provided with a copy of the gas safety cert which was valid at the time, along with a copy of the "How to rent leaflet".
I get them to sign a confirmation that they've received hard copies of all the guff I've issued at the same time as initially signing AST. I had to issue the 'How to Rent' leaflet after initial signing - again, got a signature on a release form.
LL should be in control - you have no clue as to the competence (or value) of any engineer supplied by the tenant - they could wreck your boiler and leave your tenant unsafe.
Your engineer or no engineer. Letter through the door stating your engineer needs to attend. Range of time options agreed with engineer first to allow tenant to choose. And I'd make damn sure you've pre-agreed the engineer checks every single gas appliance, water vessel, radiator and the consumer unit in the property (with pics) before starting on the boiler. Your way or no way. Paperwork from him stating attendance and confirmation from him he was refused access or asked to leave. Not sure if you're legally allowed to attend but I wouldn't give them the choice tbh.
I'm guessing cannabis farm.
I'm not a member of any professional LL organisation - this guy's info is useful - https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/
TheBinarySheep said:
Black_S3 said:
Yup. OP needs to forget about inspecting the property and arrange a gas man on the brief that he does the safety check on the hob and fire before touching the boiler. If she plays silly buggers on access to any of the gas appliances he caps the gas at the meter. The priority for the OP should be getting a valid gas safety cert out of this situation so the bh can’t use it as an angle to try block or delay an eviction.... she’s setting him right up and this will likely end up getting twisted into ‘he left us with a faulty boiler that hadn’t had its gas safety check, he wanted to fix it himself when he’s not gas safe and he refused to authorise the engineer we arranged’... even the way the OP has described the situation in this thread it does come across like his priority is inspecting the property rather than ensuring the boiler is safe and functional.
In my defence. I did say I would be telling the tenant that I'd arrange an engineer, but it went against all of the advice I'd received on here from people in the know, so I didn't.h can’t use it as an angle to try block or delay an eviction.... she’s setting him right up and this will likely end up getting twisted into ‘he left us with a faulty boiler that hadn’t had its gas safety check, he wanted to fix it himself when he’s not gas safe and he refused to authorise the engineer we arranged’... even the way the OP has described the situation in this thread it does come across like his priority is inspecting the property rather than ensuring the boiler is safe and functional.All I've been doing is trying to follow the advice given here as best I can.
Either way, if I arrange an engineer to fix the boiler, then I'll be attending with him as a witness and to provide some safeguarding for him, especially given the threads about her boyfriend.
andy43 said:
TheBinarySheep said:
Wings said:
It is always preferable for a landlord/agent to make an appointment to either inspect, attend a boiler and/or another type of repair, then to attend in person at the appointed time. Only then, by the tenant refusing access to the landlord/agent/contractor etc., will the court recognise that the tenant has refused access.
In the OP's situation, I would be talking to local neighbours of the rental property, and try to obtain some local information on the tenant/s, occupants, property etc.
I would already have served a Section 8 Notice on the tenant, 4 weeks Notice for over 6 months rental arrears, under 6 months arrears 6 months Notice. Section 21 Notice if preferred needs a 6 months Notice, but is in force for 10 months
Lots of hurdles a landlord needs to cross before a valid Notice can be served, and if in doubt the OP should ensure any Deposit monies are protected, either under the original Assured Tenancy Agreement, and/or a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.
Apart from the Deposit monies being protected, at the start of any Tenancy Agreement, the tenant/s should receive a copy of the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, HMG's How to Rent leaflet, and since June 2020 a copy of the Electrical Safety Certificate.
In thirty plus years of being a landlord, I have only ever had one tenant refuse me inspection access to a property, that end with the property being completely trashed, with many months of unpaid rent, and police in attendance when the bailiffs removed the tenants.
Apologies, I missed this one.In the OP's situation, I would be talking to local neighbours of the rental property, and try to obtain some local information on the tenant/s, occupants, property etc.
I would already have served a Section 8 Notice on the tenant, 4 weeks Notice for over 6 months rental arrears, under 6 months arrears 6 months Notice. Section 21 Notice if preferred needs a 6 months Notice, but is in force for 10 months
Lots of hurdles a landlord needs to cross before a valid Notice can be served, and if in doubt the OP should ensure any Deposit monies are protected, either under the original Assured Tenancy Agreement, and/or a Statutory Periodic Tenancy.
Apart from the Deposit monies being protected, at the start of any Tenancy Agreement, the tenant/s should receive a copy of the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, HMG's How to Rent leaflet, and since June 2020 a copy of the Electrical Safety Certificate.
In thirty plus years of being a landlord, I have only ever had one tenant refuse me inspection access to a property, that end with the property being completely trashed, with many months of unpaid rent, and police in attendance when the bailiffs removed the tenants.
You suggest raising a section 8 notice. The tenant is 5 month in arrears, would you suggest raising a section 8 now anyway giving 6 month notice, or wait until next month, hope they don't make a rent payment and then issue a section 8 giving 4 weeks notice?
I've drove past the property a couple of times, it looks ok outside other than some rubbish and an old fridge/freezer in the yard. We used to live in the property so we still know the neighbours. There were some concerns initially from a neighbour about screaming and shouting during the night, but she didn't want us to get involved and was handling it herself. The local council have some concerns about the female tenant which relate to abuse/domestic abuse, so we suspect that she has an abusive/protective partner (based on the information we've gathered).
Any deposit paid by the tenant was put in the DPS (https://depositprotection.com/switch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA6Or_BRC_ARIsAPzuer_aYp_JfeGZGvQnvrAGBk4KYYAtJL5qHSPwA-4E1ggFYEAzZ5kgmcEaAkPTEALw_wcB) as soon as we received it. The tenancy started in May 2020 so the tenant was provided with a copy of the gas safety cert which was valid at the time, along with a copy of the "How to rent leaflet".
I get them to sign a confirmation that they've received hard copies of all the guff I've issued at the same time as initially signing AST. I had to issue the 'How to Rent' leaflet after initial signing - again, got a signature on a release form.
LL should be in control - you have no clue as to the competence (or value) of any engineer supplied by the tenant - they could wreck your boiler and leave your tenant unsafe.
Your engineer or no engineer. Letter through the door stating your engineer needs to attend. Range of time options agreed with engineer first to allow tenant to choose. And I'd make damn sure you've pre-agreed the engineer checks every single gas appliance, water vessel, radiator and the consumer unit in the property (with pics) before starting on the boiler. Your way or no way. Paperwork from him stating attendance and confirmation from him he was refused access or asked to leave.
I'm guessing cannabis farm.
I'm not a member of any professional LL organisation - this guy's info is useful - https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/
Wacky Racer said:
So looking in the bright side (I know it's difficult) You have had £1600 whereas if the house was empty you would have had zilch.
I appreciate this does not jn any way make up for the stress you have had to endure.....
I think it’s safe to say it’s going to cost a lot more than £1,600 to make that place marketable for sale.I appreciate this does not jn any way make up for the stress you have had to endure.....
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