Best Wifi enabled thermostat
Discussion
Sheets Tabuer said:
I might be going bonkers so can I have a sanity check,with a nest and Alexa I think I've always said "Alexa turn the heating on" and it worked, now all I'm getting is sorry your (nest) cannot do that.
Is it just me, I know it's been 6 months since I've used it..
Nest being part of Google and changing the API or similar, so no third party integration any more..Is it just me, I know it's been 6 months since I've used it..
I liked the Tado because it was nice and simple to use, also it integrated my A/C control into it as well, so I can stick that on for an hour before bed (even now - I like a COLD bedroom!).
They email me when batteries are running low I any device and tell me no need to replace them now, they'll last a week or so more if you can't change them straight away, and were great when one of my thermostats died - replacement straight in the post, asked me to send the old one back, which I didn't do, and they didn't harass me about it (so I just use it as a temperature detector in rooms I don't need under smart control - like the box room - rad is always off, I just plonk it on a shelf and it lets me know what the temp in there is like).
If they'd only given me some kind of online form about how you used your heating BEFORE you installed the system (and this applies to all systems, of course), they could advertise far larger average fuel savings - going from "I never remembered to turn my rads off, had no thermostat, and just relied on the programmer and TRVS" to "all the rooms I heat are heated to within one decimal point of a degree, and only at the times I have specified", the difference would be huge!
They email me when batteries are running low I any device and tell me no need to replace them now, they'll last a week or so more if you can't change them straight away, and were great when one of my thermostats died - replacement straight in the post, asked me to send the old one back, which I didn't do, and they didn't harass me about it (so I just use it as a temperature detector in rooms I don't need under smart control - like the box room - rad is always off, I just plonk it on a shelf and it lets me know what the temp in there is like).
If they'd only given me some kind of online form about how you used your heating BEFORE you installed the system (and this applies to all systems, of course), they could advertise far larger average fuel savings - going from "I never remembered to turn my rads off, had no thermostat, and just relied on the programmer and TRVS" to "all the rooms I heat are heated to within one decimal point of a degree, and only at the times I have specified", the difference would be huge!
Well I've costed up for controlling a combi & 8 radiators:
Tado: £620
Evohome: £595
Wiser: £433
The Wiser would probably be the easiest physical installation but the comments about Wiser in this thread aren't very comforting.
If anyone is looking at converting to TRVs it seems Drayton are selling headless valve bodies:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Multi-Zone-...
Tado: £620
Evohome: £595
Wiser: £433
The Wiser would probably be the easiest physical installation but the comments about Wiser in this thread aren't very comforting.
If anyone is looking at converting to TRVs it seems Drayton are selling headless valve bodies:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Multi-Zone-...
I have a twin wiser setup (need voltage free switching for my (biomass) boiler - hence the twin setup) and it's been fine. The TRVs are pretty quiet and it's very controllable - down to the minute. My only issue is my WiFi router is in the loft and my Hubs are on the ground floor so my signal strength is low, but I'm going to invest in a mesh system for the house which will solve this issue.
Mr Pointy said:
Well I've costed up for controlling a combi & 8 radiators:
Tado: £620
Evohome: £595
Wiser: £433
The Wiser would probably be the easiest physical installation but the comments about Wiser in this thread aren't very comforting.
If anyone is looking at converting to TRVs it seems Drayton are selling headless valve bodies:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Multi-Zone-...
Out of interest, which place are you getting the prices from as I'll be looking to price up some myself shortly? Also is Tado a subscription based now?Tado: £620
Evohome: £595
Wiser: £433
The Wiser would probably be the easiest physical installation but the comments about Wiser in this thread aren't very comforting.
If anyone is looking at converting to TRVs it seems Drayton are selling headless valve bodies:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Multi-Zone-...
Nest and Hive keep coming up whenever I do reviews for "best smart heating system" while there are quite a lot of negative comments about them as well.
Mr Pointy said:
Well I've costed up for controlling a combi & 8 radiators:
Tado: £620
Evohome: £595
Wiser: £433
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Multi-Zone-...
I used these Screwfix trv bodies, far cheaper and work with evohome.Tado: £620
Evohome: £595
Wiser: £433
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Multi-Zone-...
At 16 quid a valve body is going to make wiser a expensive contender!
These here worked with my wiser and evohome, id guess they will be fine with tado also. The thread fitting is universal do the only difference is the pin and the stroke of the motorised trv you choose.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/white-chrome-angled-trv...
Edited by shady lee on Monday 7th October 19:20
Edited by shady lee on Monday 7th October 19:23
Edited by shady lee on Monday 7th October 19:27
I have just installed Wiser in my house this weekend. It seems pretty good.
However the system is still reliant on the legacy thermostats for turning the heating on or off. Can anyone suggest a clever way round this? I have a two zone system wired as below.
My first thought is to set the Wiser room thermostat up in the hallway and simply short the wires from the legacy thermostat, thus the Drayton hub would have control of the heating coming on or off. I think this would be OK if only applied to the first zone but I think it would not work if applied to both zones.
Note the radiators in the rooms with the zone thermostats are not on thermostatic valves.
Ben
However the system is still reliant on the legacy thermostats for turning the heating on or off. Can anyone suggest a clever way round this? I have a two zone system wired as below.
My first thought is to set the Wiser room thermostat up in the hallway and simply short the wires from the legacy thermostat, thus the Drayton hub would have control of the heating coming on or off. I think this would be OK if only applied to the first zone but I think it would not work if applied to both zones.
Note the radiators in the rooms with the zone thermostats are not on thermostatic valves.
Ben
For those with Tado, in the larger rooms, have you put in a separate thermostat along with the TRV(s) you have on the radiators?
I have found that since the TRV is right next to the heat source, you have to indicate a higher temp or put an offset in to try and get whole room heated to the right level, which has taken some trial and error.
Looked on eBay a bit for thermostats but they generally go for around £100, which is a bit steap considering the TRV's themselves are significantly less.
I have found that since the TRV is right next to the heat source, you have to indicate a higher temp or put an offset in to try and get whole room heated to the right level, which has taken some trial and error.
Looked on eBay a bit for thermostats but they generally go for around £100, which is a bit steap considering the TRV's themselves are significantly less.
Monsterlime said:
For those with Tado, in the larger rooms, have you put in a separate thermostat along with the TRV(s) you have on the radiators?
I have found that since the TRV is right next to the heat source, you have to indicate a higher temp or put an offset in to try and get whole room heated to the right level, which has taken some trial and error.
Looked on eBay a bit for thermostats but they generally go for around £100, which is a bit steap considering the TRV's themselves are significantly less.
I tried another stat in the living room with the tado valves.I have found that since the TRV is right next to the heat source, you have to indicate a higher temp or put an offset in to try and get whole room heated to the right level, which has taken some trial and error.
Looked on eBay a bit for thermostats but they generally go for around £100, which is a bit steap considering the TRV's themselves are significantly less.
I did this because this room has three external walls and seems to be inconsistent in temperature dependant on outside temp and wind changing the heat loss.
I thought that the room stat would give more precise control in this room, but I have removed it because the room temp seemed to be even more unstable. For the same indicated room temperature it could feel hot or cold.
Not sure if it was a fault with the unit, or it was fighting the hall stat which runs in the hall with a radiator without a radiator valve. Removed it and currently gone back to TRV's in the living room and the house temperature has become stable again.
Think I need to try it with a valve in the hall.
BTW, once you have added an additional stat to your home, you cant remove it without either Tado's help or by deleting your home and setting it up again.
Gary C said:
Monsterlime said:
For those with Tado, in the larger rooms, have you put in a separate thermostat along with the TRV(s) you have on the radiators?
I have found that since the TRV is right next to the heat source, you have to indicate a higher temp or put an offset in to try and get whole room heated to the right level, which has taken some trial and error.
Looked on eBay a bit for thermostats but they generally go for around £100, which is a bit steap considering the TRV's themselves are significantly less.
I tried another stat in the living room with the tado valves.I have found that since the TRV is right next to the heat source, you have to indicate a higher temp or put an offset in to try and get whole room heated to the right level, which has taken some trial and error.
Looked on eBay a bit for thermostats but they generally go for around £100, which is a bit steap considering the TRV's themselves are significantly less.
I did this because this room has three external walls and seems to be inconsistent in temperature dependant on outside temp and wind changing the heat loss.
I thought that the room stat would give more precise control in this room, but I have removed it because the room temp seemed to be even more unstable. For the same indicated room temperature it could feel hot or cold.
Not sure if it was a fault with the unit, or it was fighting the hall stat which runs in the hall with a radiator without a radiator valve. Removed it and currently gone back to TRV's in the living room and the house temperature has become stable again.
Think I need to try it with a valve in the hall.
BTW, once you have added an additional stat to your home, you cant remove it without either Tado's help or by deleting your home and setting it up again.
I buy stats on Ebay any time I see one going cheap - I have one in every room I heat. Find they do a better job at keeping the heating bang on, because of the decimal place they have in addition to not being next to a radiator.
Before, mine would leave the valve in the bedroom wide open as soon as it sensed 13 degrees - which meant it would heat until it was 14 degrees, then shut off, leaving me with a rad full of 90 degree water that ends up bringing the room to 16 degrees. And I want 14 degrees, that's my sleeping temperature!
Just set a search alert on Ebay for "Tado room thermostat", used condition, buy it now auctions only.
Before, mine would leave the valve in the bedroom wide open as soon as it sensed 13 degrees - which meant it would heat until it was 14 degrees, then shut off, leaving me with a rad full of 90 degree water that ends up bringing the room to 16 degrees. And I want 14 degrees, that's my sleeping temperature!
Just set a search alert on Ebay for "Tado room thermostat", used condition, buy it now auctions only.
eatontrifles said:
just measured the room temperature in the middle-Ish with a good digital thermometer and then offset the TRV value down to compensate. I do think the way it heats takes the closeness into account slightly because it always overruns on the TRV temp measurement but the room tends to stay fairly even.
Aye, it "learns" how long it typically takes your room to heat up, or at least it is supposed to. Fine in most rooms, but my living room rad is trapped behind a big sofa - so it bounces back and heats up the valve, to the extent that the offset wouldn't adjust enough.I put mine at waist height in the room away from any heating source or draughts - it still complains now and again that there is an "open window" and tells me to turn the heating off - err no, I heat about three rooms in my house, and I opened the door into the hallway which I don't bother heating.
guindilias said:
Aye, it "learns" how long it typically takes your room to heat up, or at least it is supposed to. Fine in most rooms, but my living room rad is trapped behind a big sofa - so it bounces back and heats up the valve, to the extent that the offset wouldn't adjust enough.
I put mine at waist height in the room away from any heating source or draughts - it still complains now and again that there is an "open window" and tells me to turn the heating off - err no, I heat about three rooms in my house, and I opened the door into the hallway which I don't bother heating.
You can turn off the open window detection per room if you need to. I put mine at waist height in the room away from any heating source or draughts - it still complains now and again that there is an "open window" and tells me to turn the heating off - err no, I heat about three rooms in my house, and I opened the door into the hallway which I don't bother heating.
Just to reiterate the complicated nature of opentherm, I had the chance to try it out on my vokera excel Combi,
So I fitted up the r8880 opentherm bridge and bound it to the evohome controller.
The bridge worked fine on the Ch circuit, but as expected once connected the DHW reverts to 30c minimum, and because the controls on the front of my boiler become inactive once O/T is connected there's no way of raising it (Honeywell bridge doesn't have DHW option either).
I also noticed a increase in cycling with the opentherm, my boiler simply couldn't modulate low enough to hold on to a low flow temp on burn.
The swing side to that was also a sky high flow temp until any of the zones got near the 1.5c setpoint. So I was seeing flow 75c and return of 60s. Way out of where I normally run.
Long story short, the lack of adjustability either within the Honeywell bridge to set DHW and flow rates really makes it a non starter for me.
Some boilers allow adjustability at the boiler with the opentherm fitted.
Most vokera don't it seems, unless it's vokeras own controls.
So I fitted up the r8880 opentherm bridge and bound it to the evohome controller.
The bridge worked fine on the Ch circuit, but as expected once connected the DHW reverts to 30c minimum, and because the controls on the front of my boiler become inactive once O/T is connected there's no way of raising it (Honeywell bridge doesn't have DHW option either).
I also noticed a increase in cycling with the opentherm, my boiler simply couldn't modulate low enough to hold on to a low flow temp on burn.
The swing side to that was also a sky high flow temp until any of the zones got near the 1.5c setpoint. So I was seeing flow 75c and return of 60s. Way out of where I normally run.
Long story short, the lack of adjustability either within the Honeywell bridge to set DHW and flow rates really makes it a non starter for me.
Some boilers allow adjustability at the boiler with the opentherm fitted.
Most vokera don't it seems, unless it's vokeras own controls.
shady lee said:
The bridge worked fine on the Ch circuit, but as expected once connected the DHW reverts to 30c minimum, and because the controls on the front of my boiler become inactive once O/T is connected there's no way of raising it (Honeywell bridge doesn't have DHW option either).
This water prioritisation or lack of was why I didn't go for OT, despite my new boiler being OT compatible. shady lee said:
The swing side to that was also a sky high flow temp until any of the zones got near the 1.5c setpoint. So I was seeing flow 75c and return of 60s. Way out of where I normally run.
What are your normal flow temps? Also, what's the "SP" branding on the OT bridge?
Edited by Somebody on Saturday 2nd November 21:14
Somebody said:
What are your normal flow temps?
Also, what's the "SP" branding on the OT bridge?
I run a max of 55c normally, but I have oversized the radiators in our house when I renovated it. Massive double convectors means I can get away with lower temps.Also, what's the "SP" branding on the OT bridge?
Edited by Somebody on Saturday 2nd November 21:14
On top of that my vokera has SARA feature that starts raising the flow temp by 5c every 20 mins if the contacts have been closed for a while.
Where as the opentherm bridge simply shot up towards 80c max, not ideal.
"SP" at a guess would stand for "standard protocol" which is ironic as there's nothing standard in the way each boiler and controls manufacturer implements it within their products.
Hi All
I've been testing Wiser for a few months and comparing to other systems. I've come to the conclusion that if you have a large enough house, Wiser is your only choice, ironically due to range issues.
Wiser uses Zigbee 2.4Ghz which isn't great for wall penetration, others use the better 867Mhz. All well and good until you realise that Tado, Evohome do not sell a range extender. I'm guessing this is down to the rules concerning broadcast on 867.
My new house is a large bungalow, and when I say large I mean 42m from one side to the other! There is no way the 867 stuff would reach.
I have Solaredge and Hue on Zigbee as well as Wiser and of course 2.4 Wifi. I carefully checked and ensured the wifi and zigbee channels are not overlapping. see here for help
Then I wandered around with the hub on the end of a 50m coil of 5 core looking for the best balanced location.
So I had to bite the bullet and get 4(!) extender plugs. Made a virtue from it by using for stuff like subwoofer and son's electric blanket on/off etc.
Right now I'm looking at maxed out rooms (had to combine several due to 16 limit) and 27 TRVs.
The only ballsache is no way to group rooms by zone, eg all kids ensuites to a single zone, right now I have to tweak every single one individually.
Anyone got questions fire away and I'll see if I can help.
I've been testing Wiser for a few months and comparing to other systems. I've come to the conclusion that if you have a large enough house, Wiser is your only choice, ironically due to range issues.
Wiser uses Zigbee 2.4Ghz which isn't great for wall penetration, others use the better 867Mhz. All well and good until you realise that Tado, Evohome do not sell a range extender. I'm guessing this is down to the rules concerning broadcast on 867.
My new house is a large bungalow, and when I say large I mean 42m from one side to the other! There is no way the 867 stuff would reach.
I have Solaredge and Hue on Zigbee as well as Wiser and of course 2.4 Wifi. I carefully checked and ensured the wifi and zigbee channels are not overlapping. see here for help
Then I wandered around with the hub on the end of a 50m coil of 5 core looking for the best balanced location.
So I had to bite the bullet and get 4(!) extender plugs. Made a virtue from it by using for stuff like subwoofer and son's electric blanket on/off etc.
Right now I'm looking at maxed out rooms (had to combine several due to 16 limit) and 27 TRVs.
The only ballsache is no way to group rooms by zone, eg all kids ensuites to a single zone, right now I have to tweak every single one individually.
Anyone got questions fire away and I'll see if I can help.
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