Renovating an old farmhouse and living on the Pennines

[hidetheelephants]

A digger doesn't seem like a good idea unless you're going to install a new drain; repairing the old is spade work unless it's really deep or you're good enough on the levers to crack a boiled egg and dunk soldiers with the bucket.

[Evoluzione]

hidetheelephants said:

A digger doesn't seem like a good idea unless you're going to install a new drain; repairing the old is spade work unless it's really deep or you're good enough on the levers to crack a boiled egg and dunk soldiers with the bucket.

It would be a two person job, one watching and the other operating the excavator. I think you'd just have to accept you were going to damage it, but put it right again. It's not a difficult construction, a few bits of stone laid on top of each other.
I'd be there for months with nothing put a pole and spade.

---

I've just been for a wander down, but forgot my phone to get a pic. The big problem hole is now empty of water and the plastic pipe I found is still flowing a lot so it's a start.
Hoping to meet up with the farmer who has been looking after it for the last few years to see what he knows and discuss it, speaking on the phone he didn't know about the plastic pipe in there.

Edited by Evoluzione on Tuesday 4th January 11:30

[deadtom]

superb updates again OP, thank you for taking the time to write that essay on lime mortar.

I should probably also do a one day lime mortar intro course so that I can feel a little more confident in tackling my own house, but while I do have a garden wall, it is dry stone rather than mortared, so I have nothing except the house itself to practise on

[S100HP]

Having read the whole thread during my nightshift, I must say I'm in awe of what you've taken on and how you're approaching it. I'd love to do something similar.

I am however surprised that you've not invested in a quad bike or some kind of ATV or Mule. Would do everything Terry does and more, with less fuss. Friend of mine has a smallholding and has one, states it's invaluable. Even simple things like taking the rubbish down the drive would be significantly easier. Might be worth considering?

Anyway, keep up the good work!

[Evoluzione]

S100HP said:

Having read the whole thread during my nightshift, I must say I'm in awe of what you've taken on and how you're approaching it. I'd love to do something similar.

I am however surprised that you've not invested in a quad bike or some kind of ATV or Mule. Would do everything Terry does and more, with less fuss. Friend of mine has a smallholding and has one, states it's invaluable. Even simple things like taking the rubbish down the drive would be significantly easier. Might be worth considering?

Anyway, keep up the good work!

Thanks!
A quad wouldn't take us out if it snows and wouldn't tow what Terry does sometimes, but yes it would scamper over the mud and carry bits and pieces around the land. At the time he was purchased I was pulling in many heavy trailerloads of stuff and getting stuck here, it was invaluable then to take over and shunt stuff around. I could shod it with a set of full mud tyres and a locking front diff to make it more versatile in Spring and Winter or just use an alternative.
Really I could blow our entire budget on an array of machines to do various jobs. Importantly I need something with forks on the front and a digger on tracks, hopefully will find the latter soon.

---

My God Winter is depressing, I don't mean only here, just in general and in the UK. 8am as I'm part way through typing and it's still only half light, like many others we've had a light fall of snow overnight and the birds are getting their breakfast on the feeder, some kind of precipitation is rattling against the windows, I know not what. The blackbird has been forced onto the table as his food on the floor is covered in snow, he doesn't like it up there. They all have their favourite spots to feed.
I've got a post on wildlife to complete and post when I have time. I took some time off over Christmas and NY to write what I did, but have had to go back to doing more serious stuff this week like most people.

There is some old saying about not owning a house, but being merely a resident of it for a short time or something like that? I will find out and remind myself.
As you will have gathered I like history and am really keen to find out more of the story of this place, i've been given a head start by the owners before the last lot who have left reams and reams of historic paperwork of invoices, deeds, titles, rights etc. The older stuff Is exceptionally hard for me to get through, I'm just not academic enough and it's written in difficult old legal jargon.
I would love to take what is there and write it out in more simpler terms as a story, but think that'll have to come another day when or if we ever have an excess of money to pay someone (Solicitor?) to pick through it.

History is like planting trees, I should really be doing more important things than planting trees, but on balance Winter is the time to plant a tree and if we don't get them in soon we won't be able to enjoy them in the future.

The problem with waiting is history gets lost over time. I spent a day over the holidays searching for the owners before last as I figured they maybe still alive and would know a lot as they lived here maybe 20yrs or so, I think it's them who has left a lot of the paperwork and done some research. The problem is there is no written conclusion, just papers.
I'm no detective, but do like reading story books about them, maybe some of it has rubbed off on me and I don't give up too easy.

In the end I failed in tracking them down using Ancestry.com and whilst 192.com did give me an area where they lived, when I tried joining it to get more it threw up a load of errors. The issue too is the owners had two daughters so it's likely their second names will have changed.
I told the O'H I would have to resort to banging on the doors of some of the leads, 'you can't do that!' she said, 'they'll think you're some nutter!' But I knew quite well that you don't just live in a place like this with no fascination or interesting memories, as long as I had the right person and managed to say the house name before having a door slammed in my face I knew I'd be in there. 'You don't have to be mad to live here, but it helps' applies.

Before that however I went back to my plea on a local FB page and someone on there had been to school with the daughters who were brought up here. They knew their married name and a connection was made. The daughter sent a FB friend request, probably to check me out first before messaging me. Her O/H had said the same as mine about strange people, but she read me well and rang me via FB. She was a bit of a wild child and still a live wire now at 49, but we chatted for ages and have swapped many a message and story.
Her and her parents lived a very interesting life and happily both her parents are still alive although in their 80s. It turns out they are only about 20 miles and 40 mins away.
I'm hoping that come Summer we can all get together here.

Oops it's snowing heavily now, glad Terry is out of the field, fuelled up, battery charged and ready if needed.
I'm on with getting water tests done with a view to fitting a filtration system, but more on that another day.

[deadtom]

good stuff Evo, do you know if your surrounding area has much interesting local history too?

We also got snow overnight and again this morning in our bit of the Pennines a little south of you, but it's stopped again, but it is making me feel vindicated in buying a 4x4 and fitting snow tyres to it.

Which segues back to your question about suitable second cars; I have owned my 2006 Allroad (early C6 shape) for a couple of months now and really like it. It's an effortless motorway mile munch but the proper Torsen full time 4WD system means it gets about just fine in the slush and ice. Adaptive air suspension means it can have the same ground clearance as a soft roader (albeit not as much as a proper 4x4 like Terry).

oodles of space in the back for the dog, and it has adjustable tie down points in the boot floor in case you need to strap down something heavy, which I thought was a nice touch and shows that it was designed as a bit of a workhorse

[Evoluzione]

deadtom said:

good stuff Evo, do you know if your surrounding area has much interesting local history too?

We also got snow overnight and again this morning in our bit of the Pennines a little south of you, but it's stopped again, but it is making me feel vindicated in buying a 4x4 and fitting snow tyres to it.

Which segues back to your question about suitable second cars; I have owned my 2006 Allroad (early C6 shape) for a couple of months now and really like it. It's an effortless motorway mile munch but the proper Torsen full time 4WD system means it gets about just fine in the slush and ice. Adaptive air suspension means it can have the same ground clearance as a soft roader (albeit not as much as a proper 4x4 like Terry).

oodles of space in the back for the dog, and it has adjustable tie down points in the boot floor in case you need to strap down something heavy, which I thought was a nice touch and shows that it was designed as a bit of a workhorse

History oozes out of the ground here and i've mentioned it previously. Since deforestation hundreds of years ago:
https://texthistory.wordpress.com/2013/08/19/briti...
(which covered what went before) there has been little change to many of the remote areas so lots is still here. It certainly caused the Brontë sisters to put pen to paper and the O/H has started reading one of their novels. They covered a large area from where I was born back over to here now, but i've never had much interest in them. Maybe i'll take a bit more in time. I wouldn't have thought their novels would be very accessible, but K says the one she is on with is a good read.

TORque SENsing diffs aren't very good and have largely been superseded by clutch type and modern electronics. Torsens rely on both wheels having a certain amount of grip, if one wheel has zero grip then the other will remain static.
Unless I find anything better I think it'll be a Merc M class, but we'll see.

[Mark Benson]

I'm not a lawyer myself but I do spend all day going over contracts, writing them, looking for loopholes and instructing lawyers, so if you wanted a hand going over the house documents I might be able to help. It's corporate law but the wording is similar and the basic premise hasn't changed for centuries.
We're up in N Yorks but my wife is a huge Bronte fan and we're often in Haworth during the summer, I'd be glad of an excuse to get out of going round the bloody parsonage again...

[Evoluzione]

Mark Benson said:

I'm not a lawyer myself but I do spend all day going over contracts, writing them, looking for loopholes and instructing lawyers, so if you wanted a hand going over the house documents I might be able to help. It's corporate law but the wording is similar and the basic premise hasn't changed for centuries.
We're up in N Yorks but my wife is a huge Bronte fan and we're often in Haworth during the summer, I'd be glad of an excuse to get out of going round the bloody parsonage again...

If you could it would be great. There is a bit of a sensitive issue buried in there somewhere which you may find interesting. You would have to pick up or i'd certainly deliver them in person, I wouldn't dare send them.

The place has a modern name, by modern I mean circa 150yrs old, but it's said that prior to that it and it's neighbour (that it's named after) were known as 'Castile', but we don't know why. Both the current name and that older name (which it's said it derived from) seem to have no connection with the house itself, or none that anyone knows as to why they are called these odd names.
Castile is something like an ancient region of Spain with lots of castles there, neither farmhouses resemble castles at all and i'm not sure of any Spanish connection either!

[deadtom]

Evoluzione said:

TORque SENsing diffs aren't very good and have largely been superseded by clutch type and modern electronics. Torsens rely on both wheels having a certain amount of grip, if one wheel has zero grip then the other will remain static.
Unless I find anything better I think it'll be a Merc M class, but we'll see.

it's more 'proper' than Haldex at least, but you are right, calling it a proper 4x4 system may be a bit of a stretch.

Could your place name be based on the steep rocky outcrop that rises behind your house be somewhat akin to a natural 'castle'?

Edited by deadtom on Friday 7th January 12:16

[Evoluzione]

deadtom said:

Evoluzione said:

TORque SENsing diffs aren't very good and have largely been superseded by clutch type and modern electronics. Torsens rely on both wheels having a certain amount of grip, if one wheel has zero grip then the other will remain static.
Unless I find anything better I think it'll be a Merc M class, but we'll see.

it's more 'proper' than Haldex at least, but you are right, calling it a proper 4x4 system may be a bit of a stretch.

Could your place name be based on the steep rocky outcrop that rises behind your house be somewhat akin to a natural 'castle'?

Yeah it's a bit of a subject all of it's own is diffs and they certainly get tested to the extreme here. The Terrano is switchable between RWD and 4WD and has a cone clutch type at the rear, but even that will revert to open type under duress. I witnessed this first hand the other week, I think it's down to X amount of power fed in or grip being found and is discussed as a percentage. Something like only X% of power being fed to one wheel. Someone will be able to explain it better.

Hmmm
There is some connection with Castile and rocky outcrops, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(rock_formation)

Tor is an old word meaning rocky outcrop or castle koppie or kopje which is Dutch, i'll pursue it more later

[dhutch]

Evoluzione said:

She was a bit of a wild child and still a live wire now at 49, but we chatted for ages and have swapped many a message and story.
Her and her parents lived a very interesting life and happily both her parents are still alive although in their 80s. It turns out they are only about 20 miles and 40 mins away. I'm hoping that come Summer we can all get together here.

Oh nice!

Our house was previously owned by the local Jewellers, who split it into two large semis after two generations of the original owners has passed away, and who interestingly also employed my aunt (grandads sister) and through that indirectly supplied my mothers engagement ring.

Slightly uncommon family name, so I hit up a few FB profiles with the same surname, but no luck with that as yet. A post on a public page/group might be the best next step, having been here 3 years now I think I am a member of most of the major pages.

[Mark Benson]

Evoluzione said:

Mark Benson said:

I'm not a lawyer myself but I do spend all day going over contracts, writing them, looking for loopholes and instructing lawyers, so if you wanted a hand going over the house documents I might be able to help. It's corporate law but the wording is similar and the basic premise hasn't changed for centuries.
We're up in N Yorks but my wife is a huge Bronte fan and we're often in Haworth during the summer, I'd be glad of an excuse to get out of going round the bloody parsonage again...

If you could it would be great. There is a bit of a sensitive issue buried in there somewhere which you may find interesting. You would have to pick up or i'd certainly deliver them in person, I wouldn't dare send them.

The place has a modern name, by modern I mean circa 150yrs old, but it's said that prior to that it and it's neighbour (that it's named after) were known as 'Castile', but we don't know why. Both the current name and that older name (which it's said it derived from) seem to have no connection with the house itself, or none that anyone knows as to why they are called these odd names.
Castile is something like an ancient region of Spain with lots of castles there, neither farmhouses resemble castles at all and i'm not sure of any Spanish connection either!

Let me have a conflab with the boss, she'd welcome an excuse to go to Haworth and I'd get brownie points for going with her

[Pieman68]

Sorry to butt in but noticed you mentioned Batley earlier on - which old mill was it?

And more importantly which chippy did you go to?

Although I'm in North Leeds now, I'm Batley born and bred - a lot of the mills were the other side of town as I lived up the hill where a lot of the owners houses were - past the train station

Lot of great history for such a small place

[Evoluzione]

Mark Benson said:

Let me have a conflab with the boss, she'd welcome an excuse to go to Haworth and I'd get brownie points for going with her

OK thanks, PM me if it's possible, I don't mind bringing them up to you though.

Pieman68 said:

Sorry to butt in but noticed you mentioned Batley earlier on - which old mill was it?

And more importantly which chippy did you go to?

Although I'm in North Leeds now, I'm Batley born and bred - a lot of the mills were the other side of town as I lived up the hill where a lot of the owners houses were - past the train station

Lot of great history for such a small place

Yes it has a lot of interesting history, mainly industrial, there a lot of good pics on their FB page. I think it's now bed capital of the country, many years ago there were about 52 bed making businesses there, I think there are a lot more now.
As you know it's had a long history with fabric, particularly Mungo & Shoddy. One of my cousins husband is a relation and still has the family name of the local fella that invented one of the main machines that worked the cloth for it.
My O/H lived on Primrose Hill off Lady Ann Rd, near the station.
I worked at Bulrush Mills which is heading towards the park, just off Bdfd Rd. The chippy I frequented was Mother Hubbards, used to be the Batley Chinese many years ago.
Both me and my Dad were born there, but never lived there.

Edited by Evoluzione on Sunday 9th January 12:21

[Pieman68]

Evoluzione said:

Yes it has a lot of interesting history, mainly industrial, there a lot of good pics on their FB page. I think it's now bed capital of the country, many years ago there were about 52 bed making businesses there, I think there are a lot more now.
As you know it's had a long history with fabric, particularly Mungo & Shoddy. One of my cousins husband is a relation and still has the family name of the local fella that invented one of the main machines that worked the cloth for it.
My O/H lived on Primrose Hill off Lady Ann Rd, near the station.
I worked at Bulrush Mills which is heading towards the park, just off Bdfd Rd. The chippy I frequented was Mother Hubbards, used to be the Batley Chinese many years ago.
Both me and my Dad were born there, but never lived there.

Know Lady Ann Road well - I'm from further up Soothill

Went to Batley Grammar just up the road from Mother Hubbards (used to be the Peony if I remember correctly). I worked in the Frontier for years running one of the bars

My English teacher at school wrote a couple of plays based on the mill industry - called Shoddyopolis and the Return to Shoddyopolis (I played the lead in that one when in 6th form)

Rumoured that the Station Hotel once had about 6 heads of state staying in it at a single time due to the Shoddy and Mungo being used in large volumes for uniforms

[ApexCult]

[redacted]

[Magooagain]

We are not the owners but guardians for the future generations!
Something like that I think.

Thanks for the lime post.

Strange here in France where I am. The county has mainly two types of stone. In the west it's limestone. And where I am its various types of granite.

My walls are about 60 to 70 cms thick and it's built with a inner and outer course and filled with general stone along with large stone bridging the whole width.
Not a lot of lime though. It's A clay based mortar with odd stones and crap. Might be some lime or chalk but not much.
All the Brits bang on about how the externals should be lime pointed etc.
The French tend to have a cross section of opinions.
So we have a maisonary/lime mix Choice. A lime mix choice,A pre made lime whatever choice. And now what is popular is pre mixed stuff like Krend/mono couche.

We also spray the whole wall with a mono couche then let it go off over night,then wire brush it back to show some large stones but cover much of the small stuff also showing the coin/corner stones.
This can be done in one day if it's warm enough.

[Evoluzione]

Pieman68 said:

Evoluzione said:

Yes it has a lot of interesting history, mainly industrial, there a lot of good pics on their FB page. I think it's now bed capital of the country, many years ago there were about 52 bed making businesses there, I think there are a lot more now.
As you know it's had a long history with fabric, particularly Mungo & Shoddy. One of my cousins husband is a relation and still has the family name of the local fella that invented one of the main machines that worked the cloth for it.
My O/H lived on Primrose Hill off Lady Ann Rd, near the station.
I worked at Bulrush Mills which is heading towards the park, just off Bdfd Rd. The chippy I frequented was Mother Hubbards, used to be the Batley Chinese many years ago.
Both me and my Dad were born there, but never lived there.

Know Lady Ann Road well - I'm from further up Soothill

Went to Batley Grammar just up the road from Mother Hubbards (used to be the Peony if I remember correctly). I worked in the Frontier for years running one of the bars

My English teacher at school wrote a couple of plays based on the mill industry - called Shoddyopolis and the Return to Shoddyopolis (I played the lead in that one when in 6th form)

Rumoured that the Station Hotel once had about 6 heads of state staying in it at a single time due to the Shoddy and Mungo being used in large volumes for uniforms

Being the only waterway which ran through Batley the beck was in a right state back then and for many years after. It was said you could tell who the mills were working for by the colour of it - it ran blue for the Navy and green of course for the Army.
I don't know if you knew, but there was a tank in the park for a while back when the beck was uncovered by the side of the road, some fantastic footage of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggQyOqqrt7U&ab...

[Evoluzione]

Magooagain said:

We are not the owners but guardians for the future generations!
Something like that I think.

Thanks for the lime post.

Strange here in France where I am. The county has mainly two types of stone. In the west it's limestone. And where I am its various types of granite.

My walls are about 60 to 70 cms thick and it's built with a inner and outer course and filled with general stone along with large stone bridging the whole width.
Not a lot of lime though. It's A clay based mortar with odd stones and crap. Might be some lime or chalk but not much.
All the Brits bang on about how the externals should be lime pointed etc.
The French tend to have a cross section of opinions.
So we have a maisonary/lime mix Choice. A lime mix choice,A pre made lime whatever choice. And now what is popular is pre mixed stuff like Krend/mono couche.

We also spray the whole wall with a mono couche then let it go off over night,then wire brush it back to show some large stones but cover much of the small stuff also showing the coin/corner stones.
This can be done in one day if it's warm enough.

Not quite, but It is definitely something like that though.
What you mention is called Earth mortar, I can't claim to know much about it, but it's here: https://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/eart...
Clay or clay rich lime mortars are thought not to be good as they can set hard and shrink or get damp and swell. I'm guessing the different materials you mention are different from the damp North to the drier South? Pretty much similar to here in the UK.
In the Lake district they have slate walls with no mortar showing at all.



No soft stuff, now water harbouring, no problems.