GSHP poorly sick
Discussion
System was fixed but they couldn't figure out what the problem had been to lose the pressure/fluid. Seems fine now although I spoke with their technical dept because it was still gobbling electricity (178 KWH in the day after it was fixed). Turns out the settings were wrong and the system as ignoring the thermostat and just racing away, and the water/heating balance was also wrong. Monitoring for a week now to see how it goes.
Cogcog said:
System was fixed but they couldn't figure out what the problem had been to lose the pressure/fluid.
Sounds pretty poor commissioning of the system.(Ice Energy ?)
I'd be keeping a close eye on the pressure gauge for the ground loop over the next week or two.
Maybe even keep a regular log of pressure readings and operating state and temps of the unit.
If you do, try and be as regular as you can. i.e same time(s) every day is better than frequent logs at random times, so for example, every morning at 8.00 and evening at 20.00 rather than one day 5 reading in the morning one in the evening, next day 2 in the morning 3 in the evening etc.
I hear stories like this with worrying frequency at work when trying to explain humongously big bills to customers that live in "green" homes...
I think based on what I see and hear, I'll stick with a gas boiler for a few more years until they iron out the snags!
Good luck and hope you get the leccy problem sorted!
I think based on what I see and hear, I'll stick with a gas boiler for a few more years until they iron out the snags!
Good luck and hope you get the leccy problem sorted!
JM said:
Sounds pretty poor commissioning of the system.
(Ice Energy ?)
I'd be keeping a close eye on the pressure gauge for the ground loop over the next week or two.
Maybe even keep a regular log of pressure readings and operating state and temps of the unit.
If you do, try and be as regular as you can. i.e same time(s) every day is better than frequent logs at random times, so for example, every morning at 8.00 and evening at 20.00 rather than one day 5 reading in the morning one in the evening, next day 2 in the morning 3 in the evening etc.
I will add pressure monitoring to my watch list, thanks.(Ice Energy ?)
I'd be keeping a close eye on the pressure gauge for the ground loop over the next week or two.
Maybe even keep a regular log of pressure readings and operating state and temps of the unit.
If you do, try and be as regular as you can. i.e same time(s) every day is better than frequent logs at random times, so for example, every morning at 8.00 and evening at 20.00 rather than one day 5 reading in the morning one in the evening, next day 2 in the morning 3 in the evening etc.
I have emailed the builder with my latest snag list today pointing out their liability to get this system working correctly, and the fact that I expect them to pay any extra electricity I have used. Some hope of that happening but you have to try ( I think it is about £400 more than the floor area suggests).
Cogcog said:
I have emailed the builder with my latest snag list today pointing out their liability to get this system working correctly, and the fact that I expect them to pay any extra electricity I have used. Some hope of that happening but you have to try ( I think it is about £400 more than the floor area suggests).
I have dealt with clients who were tennants of a housing association, and they took electric meter readings before running their GSHP's for 24-48(+) hours on 'winter' start up/running, because it was felt that the builder/housing assoc should have had the system fully up and running before they moved in, in some cases months earlier. To explan further the heat pumps were put on and ran by the installer and the builder switched them off after they were proven to work after being on for a day or two. So when the clinet took occupation sometimes weeks later, they then had to run them constantly again to bring the slab temps back up. They had been advised by the housing assoc only to run them for 2 or 3 hours at cheap rate electricity when they moved in.
I was called in to investigate why they "weren't working" and advised constant running for a day or two.
Not been back since.
JM said:
I have dealt with clients who were tennants of a housing association, and they took electric meter readings before running their GSHP's for 24-48(+) hours on 'winter' start up/running, because it was felt that the builder/housing assoc should have had the system fully up and running before they moved in, in some cases months earlier.
To explan further the heat pumps were put on and ran by the installer and the builder switched them off after they were proven to work after being on for a day or two. So when the clinet took occupation sometimes weeks later, they then had to run them constantly again to bring the slab temps back up. They had been advised by the housing assoc only to run them for 2 or 3 hours at cheap rate electricity when they moved in.
I was called in to investigate why they "weren't working" and advised constant running for a day or two.
Not been back since.
We had it running at 23 degrees for a few months while the sale was going through (the sales manager liked it warm for prospective buyers) dropped it by a degree a day to 19 degrees for the floor to acclimatise and then turned it off for the wooden floors to be laid in late October for 2 weeksI then increased the temp by half a degree a day until we were back up at 19 degrees.To explan further the heat pumps were put on and ran by the installer and the builder switched them off after they were proven to work after being on for a day or two. So when the clinet took occupation sometimes weeks later, they then had to run them constantly again to bring the slab temps back up. They had been advised by the housing assoc only to run them for 2 or 3 hours at cheap rate electricity when they moved in.
I was called in to investigate why they "weren't working" and advised constant running for a day or two.
Not been back since.
Blue Oval84 said:
I hear stories like this with worrying frequency at work when trying to explain humongously big bills to customers that live in "green" homes...
I think based on what I see and hear, I'll stick with a gas boiler for a few more years until they iron out the snags!
Good luck and hope you get the leccy problem sorted!
Would that be LPG gas as that would be even more expensive....................I think based on what I see and hear, I'll stick with a gas boiler for a few more years until they iron out the snags!
Good luck and hope you get the leccy problem sorted!
A week in after the re-pressurising and things look OK. Header tank has dropped by about half an inch but is now stable, pressure steady. Spoke with the techy people again today who say things look well within the right ranges in terms of how much the compressor is doing and the heat outputs.
It has used 680 KWH in the last 6 days, so about £11 a day, and has averaged £12.33p a day over the past 3 months, including 11 days running solely on the leccy and a few heavy days warming up after the breakdown. I know we have had a mild wimnter so far but given that my summer use should be much less it may be within acceptable csost ove rthe year for 3000+ sq feet.
Monitoring for another 2 week or a month if it looks OK before ringing the techy.
It has used 680 KWH in the last 6 days, so about £11 a day, and has averaged £12.33p a day over the past 3 months, including 11 days running solely on the leccy and a few heavy days warming up after the breakdown. I know we have had a mild wimnter so far but given that my summer use should be much less it may be within acceptable csost ove rthe year for 3000+ sq feet.
Monitoring for another 2 week or a month if it looks OK before ringing the techy.
System has gone tits up again. GGGrrrrr
The plumber came to solve a problem with the ground floor bathroom only having heat in one half. He tinkered thought it had improved by an odd degree (using the digital thermometer). I think us thinking the groundfloor bathroom had warmed up slightly was just wishful thinking and it is the same ( 14 or 15 degrees).
Since he came out on the 26th January the system has been running quite wildly, especially the last 48 hours. It has used 867 KWH (about £105) of electricity since the 26th. The rads on the landing were running at 42 degrees and the bedroom between 25 and 34 degrees. The floor temperatures in most of the ground rooms have increased in temperature by 2 degrees. Then the ground loop system suddenly drained itself and threw a low pressure switch. Fooked.
Back up system has not cut in (again). Call out number denying all knowledge of the insurance cover arranged by the builder and anyway have no GSHP engineers on their list.
Just to add insult to injury I have just had an electricity bill for £2,163 for 3 months because Eon have had me on a quite expensive tariff from the builder and because they had overestimated the meter reading. When corrected, it is still around £1250 for 90 days.
Cogcog, if I was somewhat closer to you I'd come and have a look - I'm staggered that such a system can be so unreliable.
One feature of a heat pump installation should be simplicity and reliability. Yes, the heat pump itself is complex - but all the bits on the outside are just about moving water about - at relatively low temperatures.
Just as a matter of interest can you post the wattages of the various circulating pumps in the system?
One feature of a heat pump installation should be simplicity and reliability. Yes, the heat pump itself is complex - but all the bits on the outside are just about moving water about - at relatively low temperatures.
Just as a matter of interest can you post the wattages of the various circulating pumps in the system?
Cogcog said:
System has gone tits up again. GGGrrrrr
By the sounds of it you need the whol system flushed. Both the inside underfloor and radiator circuits and the ground loop. The ground loop should be pressure tested for an extended period also. I've come across similar instances of erratic floor temps/uneven floor temps in one room, and flushing the circuit removed grit and sand etc from the pipes which was obviouslly obstructing the flow.
Cogcog said:
Call out number denying all knowledge of the insurance cover arranged by the builder and anyway have no GSHP engineers on their list.
You don't need a heat pump engineer per se, you need someone who knows about underfloor heating and that can flush and fill a system correctly, and one to do the ground loop. Cogcog said:
Just to add insult to injury I have just had an electricity bill for £2,163 for 3 months because Eon have had me on a quite expensive tariff from the builder and because they had overestimated the meter reading. When corrected, it is still around £1250 for 90 days.
Again, the electricity sounds excessive, can you confirm the readings you are giving are just for the heat pump/heating system? And what model/kw rating is the heat pump and the circulating pumps?
Going by your profile you are in Yorkshire, is that correct?
Engineer came out today, refilled the loop with 200 lites of glycol. All manifolds pressure tested at 4 bars for an hour. Getting sand in the 3rd loop. He thinks there is a leak in the ground loop as the boiler seems to be working fine but he has adjusted the internal Also suggesting a powerflush.
The installation is looking questionable. Last resort is they install a new bore hole array, which the developers seem to be considering.
I am Notts/Yorks border and the system is 14kw driven by 3 phase electricity.
The installation is looking questionable. Last resort is they install a new bore hole array, which the developers seem to be considering.
I am Notts/Yorks border and the system is 14kw driven by 3 phase electricity.
What a mess.
They have dug trenches following the ground loop pipes back to the manifold chambers in the garden. No sign of a leak but the ground water level is flooding the trenches, and then freezing (so obviously no anti-freexe in that!). Some of the ground was already frozen, one assumes from the GSHP operating.
Worryingly there are some unnecessary joins in the pipes (as if they were patching) and the routing of them is far from obvious.
The 'expert' is coming Wednesday and we have 4 space heaters from the builders.
I think my push is for them to dig it all up and start again.
They have dug trenches following the ground loop pipes back to the manifold chambers in the garden. No sign of a leak but the ground water level is flooding the trenches, and then freezing (so obviously no anti-freexe in that!). Some of the ground was already frozen, one assumes from the GSHP operating.
Worryingly there are some unnecessary joins in the pipes (as if they were patching) and the routing of them is far from obvious.
The 'expert' is coming Wednesday and we have 4 space heaters from the builders.
I think my push is for them to dig it all up and start again.
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