Renewable energy to save money? Sorry It doesn't work.
Discussion
Evoluzione said:
Alex Z said:
I had solar panels fitted 8 years ago, and they paid back over 7.
There’s another 12 years of FIT payments to go, and until the recent price rises my net energy bill was zero.
The maths on newer battery backed systems without FITs are less clear, but probably back to being worthwhile if prices stay high.
Did you get a grant for that?There’s another 12 years of FIT payments to go, and until the recent price rises my net energy bill was zero.
The maths on newer battery backed systems without FITs are less clear, but probably back to being worthwhile if prices stay high.
As for appearance, they are on the rear of a 3 storey house and you can only see them if you go to the bottom of the garden and look.
Evoluzione said:
… stuff
Solar
It's expensive to buy and have fitted, especially the batteries.
They make good power in Summer right when you need it the least.
The batteries and the panels have a limited life.
They're ugly, if you have a beautiful house they will ruin it.
It’s being used on an industrial scale in many, many places though, huge fields of it installed by landowners ‘diversifying’ their farms. It can produce power in levels of light far below the levels of a sunny summer’s day.Solar
It's expensive to buy and have fitted, especially the batteries.
They make good power in Summer right when you need it the least.
The batteries and the panels have a limited life.
They're ugly, if you have a beautiful house they will ruin it.
Wind - Just because it’s not windy near you doesn’t mean there isn’t a different pressure system driving wind generation in another distant part of the UK, or a summer sea breeze generating some power production around coastal areas.
singlecoil said:
Government want us to reduce fuel consumption and good insulation has become a legal requirement on new builds.
If you want to reduce your energy consumption and bills and are unfortunate enough to have a home that is listed, and you want to fit double glazing you can f
k off because it won't look quite so pretty to the people who don't live in it.
We've fitted a mix of double glazed and non-hideous secondary glazing in a Grade 2 without any problems. Black Knight made the secondary glazing.If you want to reduce your energy consumption and bills and are unfortunate enough to have a home that is listed, and you want to fit double glazing you can f
k off because it won't look quite so pretty to the people who don't live in it.Evoluzione said:
I've invited you provide us with a real life example to prove me wrong yet you and most others can't seem to manage it.
Plenty of people with solar installations paid for after 7 or 8 years. Plenty of large scale solar installations going in now without any government support, but private investors putting in the cash.
Small scale hydro is very cheap to run and reliable. I agree most people can't benefit from it in the UK, but some can, especially in Scotland and Wales. Produces power 24/7 and once installed requires nothing more than basic servicing once a year. The turbines and pipe-work will outlive the person who installs it.
Generally all of these things benefit from economies of scale, so for homeowners may not be the most cost effective thing ever, but to say it doesn't work for anyone is just wrong.
Evoluzione said:
4Q said:
So much wrong in the opening post. This is my area of expertise and I’ve tried in the past to post sensible unbiased facts about renewables, both benefits and pitfalls, but I’m tired with arguing with biased Ill informed people on here.
That's exactly why I started this thread we'll archive it so you don't have to do it again and again every week.Please put forward your facts and hopefully a current real life example which has proved you to be correct.
I only want you do do it once and do it properly.
Andeh1 said:
Evoluzione said:
4Q said:
So much wrong in the opening post. This is my area of expertise and I’ve tried in the past to post sensible unbiased facts about renewables, both benefits and pitfalls, but I’m tired with arguing with biased Ill informed people on here.
That's exactly why I started this thread we'll archive it so you don't have to do it again and again every week.Please put forward your facts and hopefully a current real life example which has proved you to be correct.
I only want you do do it once and do it properly.
Evoluzione said:
So I would appreciate your time proven real life examples
Prove me wrong.
Go on then.Prove me wrong.
Evoluzione said:
Go on then.
Ok.I only have solar.
Electricity bill: 0.
I'm not even on the grid.
People typically look to answer the wrong question.
Don't look at how much power you use and then see if you can generate it, look at how much you generate and then work out how to use that.
Or
Solar isn't pointless because I can't run an electric car off it, the electric car is pointless as I don't generate enough.
Gas bill is about £15 per month, heating is logburner so free.
Bacon Is Proof said:
Evoluzione said:
Go on then.
Ok.I only have solar.
Electricity bill: 0.
I'm not even on the grid.
People typically look to answer the wrong question.
Don't look at how much power you use and then see if you can generate it, look at how much you generate and then work out how to use that.
Or
Solar isn't pointless because I can't run an electric car off it, the electric car is pointless as I don't generate enough.
Gas bill is about £15 per month, heating is logburner so free.
Are you in the UK?
How much did it cost?
How large is the panel area?
How are you creating enough electric on a dull day in WInter to power a whole house, or are you not?
brianb said:
4Q said:
This is my area of expertise.
Heat pumps do not work on the majority of existing housing stock. FACT.
Please don’t state the first followed by such a ridiculous statement, Heat pumps do not work on the majority of existing housing stock. FACT.
Edited by 4Q on Saturday 5th February 11:03
Coming from a true expert you can quote me on the following
Correctly designed and specified Heat Pumps systems work in ANY property, as with ANY heat source they work more effectively & efficiently in well insulated draft free buildings
Solar PV has worked reasonably well for us.
We put ours in at the tail end of FITs, and we were ripping the roof apart anyway, so the cost of scaffolding & roof work was negligible. Installation cost of a 4kW system was about 7k. We've had FIT payments of about 1000 quid a year for 6 years, so we'll get a 7 year return, which is not a disaster given that we'll presumably net the benefits for a few more years. It does all of the hot water in the summer, so additional money is being saved, but as that is set against a log burning Rayburn, I have no idea of the financial impact.
I am hopefully about to build a new garage, and if I install the panels myself, the sums will just about add up - the panels are pretty cheap now. I'm going to stick a battery in, I know there is no financial case for this at all, we're doing it for power cut avoidance.
We did a rainwater system at the same time, and I would avoid this like the plague.
I have two friends who have heat pumps, one GS and one AS. The GS one cost a formidable amount of capital to install and costs more to operate than the old gas boiler. The AS one was ripped out after one winter. Both were (IMO) mis-sold into unsuitable houses.
We put ours in at the tail end of FITs, and we were ripping the roof apart anyway, so the cost of scaffolding & roof work was negligible. Installation cost of a 4kW system was about 7k. We've had FIT payments of about 1000 quid a year for 6 years, so we'll get a 7 year return, which is not a disaster given that we'll presumably net the benefits for a few more years. It does all of the hot water in the summer, so additional money is being saved, but as that is set against a log burning Rayburn, I have no idea of the financial impact.
I am hopefully about to build a new garage, and if I install the panels myself, the sums will just about add up - the panels are pretty cheap now. I'm going to stick a battery in, I know there is no financial case for this at all, we're doing it for power cut avoidance.
We did a rainwater system at the same time, and I would avoid this like the plague.
I have two friends who have heat pumps, one GS and one AS. The GS one cost a formidable amount of capital to install and costs more to operate than the old gas boiler. The AS one was ripped out after one winter. Both were (IMO) mis-sold into unsuitable houses.
Evoluzione said:
Bacon Is Proof said:
Evoluzione said:
Go on then.
Ok.I only have solar.
Electricity bill: 0.
I'm not even on the grid.
People typically look to answer the wrong question.
Don't look at how much power you use and then see if you can generate it, look at how much you generate and then work out how to use that.
Or
Solar isn't pointless because I can't run an electric car off it, the electric car is pointless as I don't generate enough.
Gas bill is about £15 per month, heating is logburner so free.
Are you in the UK?
How much did it cost?
How large is the panel area?
How are you creating enough electric on a dull day in WInter to power a whole house, or are you not?
You need to change your attitude if you want to be more sustainable or save money.
How much electricity are you using right now?
I'm using none, save for the batteries in my mobile and modem.
Bacon Is Proof said:
Evoluzione said:
Bacon Is Proof said:
Evoluzione said:
Go on then.
Ok.I only have solar.
Electricity bill: 0.
I'm not even on the grid.
People typically look to answer the wrong question.
Don't look at how much power you use and then see if you can generate it, look at how much you generate and then work out how to use that.
Or
Solar isn't pointless because I can't run an electric car off it, the electric car is pointless as I don't generate enough.
Gas bill is about £15 per month, heating is logburner so free.
Are you in the UK?
How much did it cost?
How large is the panel area?
How are you creating enough electric on a dull day in WInter to power a whole house, or are you not?
You need to change your attitude if you want to be more sustainable or save money.
How much electricity are you using right now?
I'm using none, save for the batteries in my mobile and modem.
GetCarter said:
If it needs help from other systems to heat the house it's either badly installed, or not the right install.
I live in the NW Highlands of Scotland (pretty much as north as Oslo) and my house is +/- 72F all winter and the hot water is scolding hot to the touch.
..and it sounds as loud as a fan (which is what it is).
Of course, if the house isn't insulated, you'll piss away money. Just less with a heat pump than other types of heating.
Which is why there is such a push to get them. It isn't for any other reason than they are more efficient.
Serious question. How do you get a ASHP to make the water scolding hot? I have only just had a quote for a double system ASHP and been told the water temp will not get above 45-50 degrees despite having a relative overkill systemI live in the NW Highlands of Scotland (pretty much as north as Oslo) and my house is +/- 72F all winter and the hot water is scolding hot to the touch.
..and it sounds as loud as a fan (which is what it is).
Of course, if the house isn't insulated, you'll piss away money. Just less with a heat pump than other types of heating.
Which is why there is such a push to get them. It isn't for any other reason than they are more efficient.
Edited by GetCarter on Saturday 5th February 14:35
julian64 said:
Serious question. How do you get a ASHP to make the water scolding hot? I have only just had a quote for a double system ASHP and been told the water temp will not get above 45-50 degrees despite having a relative overkill system
There are ASHP's coming on the market that produce flow temperatures of 75 degrees so ask your installer for one, I know Vaillant and Viessmann both make one and there will be others. They use R290 as a refrigerant.One thing we're considering is solar for when we have our development work done on the house (likely 5-10 years), only issue is that the south facing elevation is also the front of the house. Only thing that I can currently think of (that would work well) would be something like the Tesla Roof tile system - solar panels which look like normal roof tiles (we can get matching tiles for 20% the cost of the front for all other sections of the roof to blend in) - I think it would look good and also save us a lot of cash, considering the power requirements of what will then be a 3.5k sqft house, wife, possibly kids, hopefully a dog and a plug-in car/motorbike.
Evanivitch said:
Bacon Is Proof said:
Gas bill is about £15 per month, heating is logburner so free.
But a log burner is both CO2 positive and a significant source of particulate matter...Logs are not free. I get my logs for free, but i've still got process them so there is time and equipment involved.
kiethton said:
One thing we're considering is solar for when we have our development work done on the house (likely 5-10 years), only issue is that the south facing elevation is also the front of the house. Only thing that I can currently think of (that would work well) would be something like the Tesla Roof tile system - solar panels which look like normal roof tiles (we can get matching tiles for 20% the cost of the front for all other sections of the roof to blend in) - I think it would look good and also save us a lot of cash, considering the power requirements of what will then be a 3.5k sqft house, wife, possibly kids, hopefully a dog and a plug-in car/motorbike.
I personally don't like the look of on roof solar panels, especially on a front elevation.You can install in roof system whereby the panels are installed instead of slates or tiles, much easier on the eye and can be cheaper if it means not having to purchase the slates or tiles for the normal method. Do a search for "in roof solar".
Evoluzione said:
Logs are not free. I get my logs for free
WRT your previous reply, this entire thread is pointless. You are completely closed minded and entrenched in your preformed opinion, the only real question is why?
Family homing pigeon taken out by turbine?
Dog bummed by solar salesman?
Who knows?
Who cares?
Not I.
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