Ask an estate agent anything
Discussion
22s said:
London houses, very hot. London flats with good outside space, very hot. London flats with small outside space (balcony), warm. London flats with no outside space around £500-700k, tepid. London 2/1.5 flats sub £500k with no outside space, tepid. One bed flats with no outside space, cold.
Be interesting to hear what you consider outside space? We are looking to sell and live in a block with communal garden, but no one really seems to use it anyway....My friend (genuinely) bought a repossession at £499,999 in the days where the stamp duty went up at 500k. He bribed the agent the day he saw the property. He knows he got it cheap - agent said multiple others offered 550k+
He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
The sale cannot be found on sold house price data because it was below market value.
Another friend is a multi millionaire who started buying flats in big developments. He would buy the last one or last remaining few at big discount because the developer wanted out. Those sales would not be recorded on sold house price data either because below market value. Once sale completed, he would then take out a loan against the property and bank does not know how much he paid. This then does not distort local sold prices data.
Another dude I met was an agent on the south coast who sold land to developers. He said he would sell to the developer who gave the biggest back hander in cash. Not unusual to get 10k in cash. The council people would also gladly be accepting back handers (they were often the ones selling).
My questions
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
2. Is there a lot of this type of activity where cash buyers buy at big discount and then take out loans/sell once they own the proeprty?
3. Is there a lot of cash envelope stuff going on when councils are involved?
He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
The sale cannot be found on sold house price data because it was below market value.
Another friend is a multi millionaire who started buying flats in big developments. He would buy the last one or last remaining few at big discount because the developer wanted out. Those sales would not be recorded on sold house price data either because below market value. Once sale completed, he would then take out a loan against the property and bank does not know how much he paid. This then does not distort local sold prices data.
Another dude I met was an agent on the south coast who sold land to developers. He said he would sell to the developer who gave the biggest back hander in cash. Not unusual to get 10k in cash. The council people would also gladly be accepting back handers (they were often the ones selling).
My questions
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
2. Is there a lot of this type of activity where cash buyers buy at big discount and then take out loans/sell once they own the proeprty?
3. Is there a lot of cash envelope stuff going on when councils are involved?
Why are estate agents involved in selling new build properties so cagey about what they have sold other properties for on the development?
I appreciate that on some of them they have maybe moved more than they would like to admit, but as a buyer who is seriously considering buying one and only wants to ensure that I am not paying way above what other people have paid a bit of transparency would be really helpful.
I appreciate that on some of them they have maybe moved more than they would like to admit, but as a buyer who is seriously considering buying one and only wants to ensure that I am not paying way above what other people have paid a bit of transparency would be really helpful.
corradokid said:
22s said:
London houses, very hot. London flats with good outside space, very hot. London flats with small outside space (balcony), warm. London flats with no outside space around £500-700k, tepid. London 2/1.5 flats sub £500k with no outside space, tepid. One bed flats with no outside space, cold.
Be interesting to hear what you consider outside space? We are looking to sell and live in a block with communal garden, but no one really seems to use it anyway....Outside space which adds premium is private garden, private roof terrace, private balcony.
fishseller said:
When is the crash coming this overpricing malarkey cant go on for ever ? 
I honestly do not see that happening without a genuine economic shock a la 2008. There is too much of the nation's wealth tied up in property and therefore it's a political trump card to keep prices spiralling ever upwards...MrJuice said:
My friend (genuinely) bought a repossession at £499,999 in the days where the stamp duty went up at 500k. He bribed the agent the day he saw the property. He knows he got it cheap - agent said multiple others offered 550k+
He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
The sale cannot be found on sold house price data because it was below market value.
Another friend is a multi millionaire who started buying flats in big developments. He would buy the last one or last remaining few at big discount because the developer wanted out. Those sales would not be recorded on sold house price data either because below market value. Once sale completed, he would then take out a loan against the property and bank does not know how much he paid. This then does not distort local sold prices data.
Another dude I met was an agent on the south coast who sold land to developers. He said he would sell to the developer who gave the biggest back hander in cash. Not unusual to get 10k in cash. The council people would also gladly be accepting back handers (they were often the ones selling).
My questions
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
2. Is there a lot of this type of activity where cash buyers buy at big discount and then take out loans/sell once they own the proeprty?
3. Is there a lot of cash envelope stuff going on when councils are involved?
Interesting anecdotes, thanks for sharing.He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
The sale cannot be found on sold house price data because it was below market value.
Another friend is a multi millionaire who started buying flats in big developments. He would buy the last one or last remaining few at big discount because the developer wanted out. Those sales would not be recorded on sold house price data either because below market value. Once sale completed, he would then take out a loan against the property and bank does not know how much he paid. This then does not distort local sold prices data.
Another dude I met was an agent on the south coast who sold land to developers. He said he would sell to the developer who gave the biggest back hander in cash. Not unusual to get 10k in cash. The council people would also gladly be accepting back handers (they were often the ones selling).
My questions
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
2. Is there a lot of this type of activity where cash buyers buy at big discount and then take out loans/sell once they own the proeprty?
3. Is there a lot of cash envelope stuff going on when councils are involved?
1. I don't generally deal with repos so can't speak from personally experience. That behaviour is clearly highly unethical, especially as it's taking advantage of someone in a distressed situation, but sadly it's not outside the realms of possibility that it happens.
2. Yes. I invest in property and that's generally how we do it (with a small bit of refurb between purchase and refi). Make a purchase cash or a bridging loan to negotiate a great deal and complete quickly, do a little bit of refurb work, then refi onto a high LTV loan and repeat.
3. Again, no personal experience. However, I used to work with someone who worked as a surveyor who would make recommendations to local authorities on how many units should allowed to be built on a specific site. He regularly got anonymous phone calls offering low tens of thousands if they could convince the council to put X units on a site. They recorded all the phone calls at his firm because of this, so we never know whether he would have taken it or not...
Re: the sales price figures never being recorded, unless the stories about are absolutely ancient, whilst they may not show up on the sold prices on Rightmove etc, they will almost always show up on Land Registry sold prices (unless there is a reason that fits into the exclusions list here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/about-the-price-paid-d...
Al U said:
Why are estate agents involved in selling new build properties so cagey about what they have sold other properties for on the development?
I appreciate that on some of them they have maybe moved more than they would like to admit, but as a buyer who is seriously considering buying one and only wants to ensure that I am not paying way above what other people have paid a bit of transparency would be really helpful.
Because they have highly likely offered a mahoosive discount and will get in sI appreciate that on some of them they have maybe moved more than they would like to admit, but as a buyer who is seriously considering buying one and only wants to ensure that I am not paying way above what other people have paid a bit of transparency would be really helpful.
t and not hit their sales targets if they give everyone a discount. My advice would be to go in 15%-20% below list and let them know you're ready to move fast, and take it from there... 22s said:
MrJuice said:
My friend (genuinely) bought a repossession at £499,999 in the days where the stamp duty went up at 500k. He bribed the agent the day he saw the property. He knows he got it cheap - agent said multiple others offered 550k+
He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
...
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
1. I don't generally deal with repos so can't speak from personally experience. That behaviour is clearly highly unethical, especially as it's taking advantage of someone in a distressed situation, but sadly it's not outside the realms of possibility that it happens.He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
...
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
Flooble said:
22s said:
MrJuice said:
My friend (genuinely) bought a repossession at £499,999 in the days where the stamp duty went up at 500k. He bribed the agent the day he saw the property. He knows he got it cheap - agent said multiple others offered 550k+
He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
...
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
1. I don't generally deal with repos so can't speak from personally experience. That behaviour is clearly highly unethical, especially as it's taking advantage of someone in a distressed situation, but sadly it's not outside the realms of possibility that it happens.He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
...
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
My experience is that they will obtain 3 valuations from Chartered Surveyors also. I suspect they would not move far from those without time, or ultimately putting them to auction.
I've only ever been offered a bribe once. I was not tempted, but did down value
I was amused when a few weeks later a different house with the same borrower. He complained that I had down valued the last house. He asked them to appoint a different firm... Clearly that did not work!
robuk said:
MrJuice said:
The sale cannot be found on sold house price data because it was below market value.
....
Those sales would not be recorded on sold house price data either because below market value.
That isn't how it works. ....
Those sales would not be recorded on sold house price data either because below market value.
robuk said:
That isn't how it works.
I've just double checked Zoopla. Friend's house last sold at 345k in 2002 according to Zoopla. There is a listing from October 2012 which is when he bought it. Listed at 515k. Does not show as sold in 2012 on Zoopla. Sold house prices on land registry shows the last sale as the 2002 sale at 345k.
He was a student then and did not buy at 345k in 2002.. He definitely did a lot of work on the house when he bought it in 2012.
OP, thank you for your comments re your own investments. It appears that you buy "used" flats and then sell. Have you ever bought a new build flat at a big discount and if so, has that data made it to the open listings on land registry? If not your own purchases, can you check any new build flats/houses you know to have sold at significant discount to see if they made it to the public register?
I get that the bank is the seller in a repossession, however, surely they only care that their loan is covered. Of course they are duty-bound to get as much as possible to pass on to the person being repossessed, but do they care that much that they'd expend their own resources on making sure no funny business has gone on? I don't think so, especially if their loan is covered.
I think there needs to be more openness in property buying. Sold house prices are there for everyone to see. Offers made are not available for anyone to see and therefore there's scope for back handers to be paid and taken.
Flooble said:
In the case of a repo would the seller not be the bank? Seems like it wouldn't be the smartest thing in the world to annoy a bank or fail to pass on offers. I can imagine there would be a risk of one of the £550K punters (if real) wondering why they didn't "win" and digging around to find out which bank was selling the place (e.g. look up who had a charge on it) then making a direct offer to the bank. That could be messy for the agent!
I agree. It's very risky and illegal I imagine. Probably covered by the bribery act and the fact some poor sod who has just been repossessed is 50k short of where he would be otherwise, does not sit right with me. I did put it to my friend exactly like that. And he didn't really give a st tbh. However, no one knows how much my friend's property sold for outside of the agent, the bank, the solicitors. It's not public knowledge and so the people who "lost" haven't got anything to complain about.
Flooble said:
22s said:
MrJuice said:
My friend (genuinely) bought a repossession at £499,999 in the days where the stamp duty went up at 500k. He bribed the agent the day he saw the property. He knows he got it cheap - agent said multiple others offered 550k+
He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
...
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
1. I don't generally deal with repos so can't speak from personally experience. That behaviour is clearly highly unethical, especially as it's taking advantage of someone in a distressed situation, but sadly it's not outside the realms of possibility that it happens.He paid the agent 6k in cash and exchanged and completed on the same day.
...
1. Is the 6k bribery scenario described above commonplace in repossessions? Even in a "normal" sale, could a buyer approach an agent and say take this 10k in cash but don't pass on any other offers to the seller. Seller then thinks they've only received one offer and sell for less than property worth.
In the case of a repo would the seller not be the bank? Seems like it wouldn't be the smartest thing in the world to annoy a bank or fail to pass on offers. I can imagine there would be a risk of one of the £550K punters (if real) wondering why they didn't "win" and digging around to find out which bank was selling the place (e.g. look up who had a charge on it) then making a direct offer to the bank. That could be messy for the agent!
brickwall said:
22s said:
PS - Feel free PM me when you might consider selling - happy to help with general advice - even if I don't cover your exact area I'm sure I can give some pointers!
Thanks - I certainly will do.surveyor said:
Lenders are not that dumb. They are under a legal duty to get the best price they can.
My experience is that they will obtain 3 valuations from Chartered Surveyors also. I suspect they would not move far from those without time, or ultimately putting them to auction.
I've only ever been offered a bribe once. I was not tempted, but did down value
I was amused when a few weeks later a different house with the same borrower. He complained that I had down valued the last house. He asked them to appoint a different firm... Clearly that did not work!
Will defer to your greater knowledge of the process on this one!My experience is that they will obtain 3 valuations from Chartered Surveyors also. I suspect they would not move far from those without time, or ultimately putting them to auction.
I've only ever been offered a bribe once. I was not tempted, but did down value
I was amused when a few weeks later a different house with the same borrower. He complained that I had down valued the last house. He asked them to appoint a different firm... Clearly that did not work!
Petrus1983 said:
OP - where are you based geographically?
I'm in SW London.MrJuice said:
robuk said:
That isn't how it works.
I've just double checked Zoopla. Friend's house last sold at 345k in 2002 according to Zoopla. There is a listing from October 2012 which is when he bought it. Listed at 515k. Does not show as sold in 2012 on Zoopla. Sold house prices on land registry shows the last sale as the 2002 sale at 345k.
He was a student then and did not buy at 345k in 2002.. He definitely did a lot of work on the house when he bought it in 2012.
OP, thank you for your comments re your own investments. It appears that you buy "used" flats and then sell. Have you ever bought a new build flat at a big discount and if so, has that data made it to the open listings on land registry? If not your own purchases, can you check any new build flats/houses you know to have sold at significant discount to see if they made it to the public register?
1) Little known 'trick', but you can email Rightmove and ask them to remove your property from the sold house prices. You just need to email them and provide one of these:
Recent utility bill from the last 3 months which shows the date of the letter (e.g. Gas, Electric)
Valid UK Driver’s License
TV License within the last 12 months (which shows the date of the letter)
Council Tax Letter within the last 12 months (which shows the date of the letter)
Title Deeds
I'm sure that a developer could work out a way to do this en masse.
2) For new builds, even if you can see the sold price on Rightmove, because so many are sold off-plan they are often listed without photos and floorplans. This makes it very difficult to even know how many bedrooms one property has vs another, so there could be a very good reason for a discount (one property has river view, another overlooks a train line) or it could be someone has negotiated a whopping discount. The only way to know without inside info is to wait for the second hand mkt to start moving and therefore more info will come to light.
I've just had a quick look back and the ones I bought on behalf of clients for a big discount are showing in the sold price data on Rightmove. However, as per point 2 above, it is impossible for anyone to know whether it's discounted or not due to the lack of contextual information.
MrJuice said:
I've just double checked Zoopla. Friend's house last sold at 345k in 2002 according to Zoopla. There is a listing from October 2012 which is when he bought it. Listed at 515k. Does not show as sold in 2012 on Zoopla.
Sold house prices on land registry shows the last sale as the 2002 sale at 345k.
He was a student then and did not buy at 345k in 2002.. He definitely did a lot of work on the house when he bought it in 2012.
If you think below market value prices are not recorded, how do you think the market price is deduced!? Sold house prices on land registry shows the last sale as the 2002 sale at 345k.
He was a student then and did not buy at 345k in 2002.. He definitely did a lot of work on the house when he bought it in 2012.
Pay a tenner to the land registry check if your mate does actually own it, and you might find the address given will have the right data publicly.
robuk said:
If you think below market value prices are not recorded, how do you think the market price is deduced!?
Pay a tenner to the land registry check if your mate does actually own it, and you might find the address given will have the right data publicly.
CoolPay a tenner to the land registry check if your mate does actually own it, and you might find the address given will have the right data publicly.
I shall do this later today
There's probably an obvious answer to this question that I'm not fully sure on but why would a property get sold without going on the market? Is it purely a case of connected people making an offer the seller is happy with and minimizing EA fees and getting it over with nice and quickly? Rather than putting it on the open market with potential for getting over asking with bidding war etc. To me it makes sense to get as many eyes as possible on it to get the best price. Though I suppose that best price comes with extra hassle which may not be worth it.
Also, kind of linked to the first question but are there any tips for finding properties before they're listed for sale? I gather if you're looking for a project fixer upper, it'll probably be a probate sale that won't ever find it's way onto the likes of Rightmove, Zoopla etc. Do developers simply have good connections that give them a heads up on properties like these? Or do you have to venture into auction territory?
Also, kind of linked to the first question but are there any tips for finding properties before they're listed for sale? I gather if you're looking for a project fixer upper, it'll probably be a probate sale that won't ever find it's way onto the likes of Rightmove, Zoopla etc. Do developers simply have good connections that give them a heads up on properties like these? Or do you have to venture into auction territory?
Thermobaric said:
There's probably an obvious answer to this question that I'm not fully sure on but why would a property get sold without going on the market? Is it purely a case of connected people making an offer the seller is happy with and minimizing EA fees and getting it over with nice and quickly? Rather than putting it on the open market with potential for getting over asking with bidding war etc. To me it makes sense to get as many eyes as possible on it to get the best price. Though I suppose that best price comes with extra hassle which may not be worth it.
Also, kind of linked to the first question but are there any tips for finding properties before they're listed for sale? I gather if you're looking for a project fixer upper, it'll probably be a probate sale that won't ever find it's way onto the likes of Rightmove, Zoopla etc. Do developers simply have good connections that give them a heads up on properties like these? Or do you have to venture into auction territory?
You might be surprised at how many people either don't want the hassle of advertising, preparing for viewings, viewings, tidying after viewings etc, and will just tell their favourite agent that they'd quite like to sell. Then a handful of off-market viewings and away it goes. Similarly, agent sells property in popular area, several disapponted buyers want to buy, and agent writes to neighbouring properties - and there you go, another off-market sale (or 2, or 3, or...).Also, kind of linked to the first question but are there any tips for finding properties before they're listed for sale? I gather if you're looking for a project fixer upper, it'll probably be a probate sale that won't ever find it's way onto the likes of Rightmove, Zoopla etc. Do developers simply have good connections that give them a heads up on properties like these? Or do you have to venture into auction territory?
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