Discussion
shocks said:
Thanks Jambo,
(1) Loads: this has me scratching my head
Cooking : Elec induction & 2x Ovens - avg family use <1hr per day and typically only one from of cooking (induction or oven used)
Laundry : Avg family use on washing & drying - (siemens and using eco programs where we can on WM and DM)
Dishwasher - used 1-2 times a day
Fridges : 2 Main, 1 Freezer, 2 wine fridges
Elec Underfloor : only in smaller bathroom - on a timer morning / evening
Heating: Gas
Immersion : no it's turned off
No EV / Hot tub / Pool
I do think I have a weird problem on consumption there is consumer goods side:
6 TVs - avg usage 2 are pretty much off / off not used
3x Sonos speakers (2x One's 1x Sonos Bar)
1x Projector (almost always just on standby till footie is on at weekend)
1x Amp / Sound system - low usage on standby
3xnetwork switches (small form factor Netgears)
3xAsus AX88u / 86s (wifi / ap / main router aggregation)
1x Cable modem
1x Harmony controller & charging point
Usual phone charge (5x iPhone on occasional charge)
3x iPads
1xKindle (mrs s is wedded to this)
1xBeer Keg machine
3xlatpops - 2 of us work from home
1xMonitor
1x NAS
Cordless shark hoover
and the odd hair dryer / straighteners etc (yeah 4 girls in the house!)
Personally, I'd get an energy monitor plug and understand where the power is going.(1) Loads: this has me scratching my head
Cooking : Elec induction & 2x Ovens - avg family use <1hr per day and typically only one from of cooking (induction or oven used)
Laundry : Avg family use on washing & drying - (siemens and using eco programs where we can on WM and DM)
Dishwasher - used 1-2 times a day
Fridges : 2 Main, 1 Freezer, 2 wine fridges
Elec Underfloor : only in smaller bathroom - on a timer morning / evening
Heating: Gas
Immersion : no it's turned off
No EV / Hot tub / Pool
I do think I have a weird problem on consumption there is consumer goods side:
6 TVs - avg usage 2 are pretty much off / off not used
3x Sonos speakers (2x One's 1x Sonos Bar)
1x Projector (almost always just on standby till footie is on at weekend)
1x Amp / Sound system - low usage on standby
3xnetwork switches (small form factor Netgears)
3xAsus AX88u / 86s (wifi / ap / main router aggregation)
1x Cable modem
1x Harmony controller & charging point
Usual phone charge (5x iPhone on occasional charge)
3x iPads
1xKindle (mrs s is wedded to this)
1xBeer Keg machine
3xlatpops - 2 of us work from home
1xMonitor
1x NAS
Cordless shark hoover
and the odd hair dryer / straighteners etc (yeah 4 girls in the house!)
Edited by shocks on Wednesday 22 February 12:02
30kWh per day is 1250W average.
Start with the stuff that's on 24/7.
Those fridges will add up. The wine fridges may be inefficient. A fridge or freezer that's on its last legs can be inefficient.
The NAS could be a few tens of watts.
Any PCs that don't hibernate
All that switch and wifi stuff.
Dishwasher, WM and tumble drier will add up, Maybe worth measuring and comparing with the kWh/load of a new one?
Yeah, PC hibernate, changing bunch of bulbs and few other bits that really aren't any aggro got our "quiet" usage down 190W, with all the wifi on and most other devices on but in standby. Bit higher, of course, when the fridge triggers, but still not much.
Our place, the biggest issue is the walls are solid, no cavity.
Our place, the biggest issue is the walls are solid, no cavity.
Old fridges are quite power hungry. Also check the beer keg machine.
If you have a smart meter you can use https://data.n3rgy.com/consumer/home to download your leccy consumption by 30 minute slices going back 13 months. This may help identify the culprits. If your phantom load is high your fridges are likely to be part of the problem.
I can’t remember the actual figures but we have a Fisher and Paykel fridge that’s about 6 years old and a similarly sized LG fridge that’s probably 12 years old. The newer fridge uses half the electricity of the older one.
If you have a smart meter you can use https://data.n3rgy.com/consumer/home to download your leccy consumption by 30 minute slices going back 13 months. This may help identify the culprits. If your phantom load is high your fridges are likely to be part of the problem.
I can’t remember the actual figures but we have a Fisher and Paykel fridge that’s about 6 years old and a similarly sized LG fridge that’s probably 12 years old. The newer fridge uses half the electricity of the older one.
One of the fascinating things you can (and will!) do once you have a solar inverter fitted is monitor your grid feed in realtime. It's fascinating to see how various things affect the consumption (and also which things make little difference.) You can get standalone devices to do this as well, they're not expensive you just need a CT clamp on the live wire between your meter and consumer unit.
A simplistic method is also to look for heat signs. Anywhere there is waste going on there will generally be heat (unless it is externally vented.) If you happen to have a thermal camera you can wander round your house and it's surprising what you will find as the culprits!
A simplistic method is also to look for heat signs. Anywhere there is waste going on there will generally be heat (unless it is externally vented.) If you happen to have a thermal camera you can wander round your house and it's surprising what you will find as the culprits!
Archie2050 said:
One of the fascinating things you can (and will!) do once you have a solar inverter fitted is monitor your grid feed in realtime. It's fascinating to see how various things affect the consumption (and also which things make little difference.) You can get standalone devices to do this as well, they're not expensive you just need a CT clamp on the live wire between your meter and consumer unit.
A simplistic method is also to look for heat signs. Anywhere there is waste going on there will generally be heat (unless it is externally vented.) If you happen to have a thermal camera you can wander round your house and it's surprising what you will find as the culprits!
Yes, I agree - got 16 400w panels and 10kwh batteries installed last week. Spend too much time looking at the app to get any work done. Was a bright day yesterday with Wife using washing machine and jet washing outside, but still managed to fill the batteries, so looks like might have some excess over summer.A simplistic method is also to look for heat signs. Anywhere there is waste going on there will generally be heat (unless it is externally vented.) If you happen to have a thermal camera you can wander round your house and it's surprising what you will find as the culprits!
barney123 said:
Archie2050 said:
One of the fascinating things you can (and will!) do once you have a solar inverter fitted is monitor your grid feed in realtime. It's fascinating to see how various things affect the consumption (and also which things make little difference.) You can get standalone devices to do this as well, they're not expensive you just need a CT clamp on the live wire between your meter and consumer unit.
A simplistic method is also to look for heat signs. Anywhere there is waste going on there will generally be heat (unless it is externally vented.) If you happen to have a thermal camera you can wander round your house and it's surprising what you will find as the culprits!
Yes, I agree - got 16 400w panels and 10kwh batteries installed last week. Spend too much time looking at the app to get any work done. Was a bright day yesterday with Wife using washing machine and jet washing outside, but still managed to fill the batteries, so looks like might have some excess over summer.A simplistic method is also to look for heat signs. Anywhere there is waste going on there will generally be heat (unless it is externally vented.) If you happen to have a thermal camera you can wander round your house and it's surprising what you will find as the culprits!
My mind is struggling what will be the best way to top-up the battery and export.
On a "normal" untimed tarrif, the answer is easy, top-up with solar and export any excess.
Octopus Flux is a timed-tariff...cheap import from grid between 0200 and 0500 (9p), good export rate between 1600 and 1900 (36p). If I export from my battery when it's a good rate, the sun will not generate enough to top up the battery. If I use the cheap import rate to top-up the battery, any solar the next day that could have been used to top up the battery will just be exported to the grid (22p). I think that I will become a weather watcher, and be checking to see if it will be sunny or cloudy tomorrow.
[quote=Archie2050You can get standalone devices to do this as well, they're not expensive you just need a CT clamp on the live wire between your meter and consumer unit.
[/quote]
Can you point me towards one, please? I used a clamp ammeter, bluetoothed to my phone, but I would prefer a dedicated unit that could sit beside the Smart meter unit in the living room.
[/quote]
Can you point me towards one, please? I used a clamp ammeter, bluetoothed to my phone, but I would prefer a dedicated unit that could sit beside the Smart meter unit in the living room.
pingu393 said:
You will. We were exporting 20kWh per day on a regular basis last August. Once the battery is full, all you are doing is topping it up, the rest is excess.
My mind is struggling what will be the best way to top-up the battery and export.
On a "normal" untimed tarrif, the answer is easy, top-up with solar and export any excess.
Octopus Flux is a timed-tariff...cheap import from grid between 0200 and 0500 (9p), good export rate between 1600 and 1900 (36p). If I export from my battery when it's a good rate, the sun will not generate enough to top up the battery. If I use the cheap import rate to top-up the battery, any solar the next day that could have been used to top up the battery will just be exported to the grid (22p). I think that I will become a weather watcher, and be checking to see if it will be sunny or cloudy tomorrow.
My cunning plan for the summer is to leave my car with at least 30% empty on the battery (more on a Friday) and then use it to soak up the excess solar as I'm sometimes there in the week and of course weekends if we're are not away. You can get 25p from Octopus, but this way you're effectively getting 35p.My mind is struggling what will be the best way to top-up the battery and export.
On a "normal" untimed tarrif, the answer is easy, top-up with solar and export any excess.
Octopus Flux is a timed-tariff...cheap import from grid between 0200 and 0500 (9p), good export rate between 1600 and 1900 (36p). If I export from my battery when it's a good rate, the sun will not generate enough to top up the battery. If I use the cheap import rate to top-up the battery, any solar the next day that could have been used to top up the battery will just be exported to the grid (22p). I think that I will become a weather watcher, and be checking to see if it will be sunny or cloudy tomorrow.
BTW what is the tax status of the SEG exports? I know it won't be much but it would be a pain to have to record it and put it on your tax return.
This is the sort of power meter you can get quite cheaply as well as ones that just plug into the mains in line
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aideepen-80-260V-Amperage...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electricity-Monitoring-Ba...
Archie2050 said:
BTW what is the tax status of the SEG exports? I know it won't be much but it would be a pain to have to record it and put it on your tax return.
Good question. I've heard nothing about this from anybody. I suspect it is something that is too new for HMRC to have a policy for. My best guess is that they will do what they did for veggie oil and give a reasonable allowance, then tax the lot if you go over it.You can use 2500 litres of veggie oil for transport, but if you use 2501, you have to pay duty on all 2501 litres. I suspect HMRC will do something similar. If not, people will just say phuqewe and not export anything.
Thanks for the links. I'll have a look
Archie2050 said:
This is the sort of power meter you can get quite cheaply as well as ones that just plug into the mains in line
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aideepen-80-260V-Amperage...
This is the sort of thing I had with my ammeter. Ideally, I'd have three, or one unit with three channels. One for the grid, one for the battery and one for the solar, with data storage on each. Now I know what I'm looking for, I can hunt the web https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aideepen-80-260V-Amperage...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clamp-Multimeter-BTMETER-...
It wasn't this expensive. £40, I think. A superb piece of kit. It does DC current on the clamp as well, so is THE thing to use when pulling fuses on a car to see where that annoying battery drain is. The app stores data if you want to see how current (or temp, or resistance, or voltage) changes with time.
pingu393 said:
Archie2050 said:
This is the sort of power meter you can get quite cheaply as well as ones that just plug into the mains in line
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aideepen-80-260V-Amperage...
This is the sort of thing I had with my ammeter. Ideally, I'd have three, or one unit with three channels. One for the grid, one for the battery and one for the solar, with data storage on each. Now I know what I'm looking for, I can hunt the web https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aideepen-80-260V-Amperage...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clamp-Multimeter-BTMETER-...
It wasn't this expensive. £40, I think. A superb piece of kit. It does DC current on the clamp as well, so is THE thing to use when pulling fuses on a car to see where that annoying battery drain is. The app stores data if you want to see how current (or temp, or resistance, or voltage) changes with time.
Bear in mind if you have a solar system, you won't be able to monitor the battery and solar feed separately on every system as hybrid inverters share the same inverter for both. The device can generate this information internally but there may not be an actual line you can clamp 2 separate CT's to. The latest ones do, but early models (which are still on sale) lack this ability, so check if it is important to you.
pingu393 said:
Archie2050 said:
BTW what is the tax status of the SEG exports? I know it won't be much but it would be a pain to have to record it and put it on your tax return.
Good question. I've heard nothing about this from anybody. I suspect it is something that is too new for HMRC to have a policy for. My best guess is that they will do what they did for veggie oil and give a reasonable allowance, then tax the lot if you go over it.You can use 2500 litres of veggie oil for transport, but if you use 2501, you have to pay duty on all 2501 litres. I suspect HMRC will do something similar. If not, people will just say phuqewe and not export anything.
Thanks for the links. I'll have a look
> Ofgem has confirmed to us that SEG payments are non-taxable, "as long as the installation is at the generator’s home and the amount of electricity generated does not significantly exceed the amount consumed."
pingu393 said:
barney123 said:
Archie2050 said:
One of the fascinating things you can (and will!) do once you have a solar inverter fitted is monitor your grid feed in realtime. It's fascinating to see how various things affect the consumption (and also which things make little difference.) You can get standalone devices to do this as well, they're not expensive you just need a CT clamp on the live wire between your meter and consumer unit.
A simplistic method is also to look for heat signs. Anywhere there is waste going on there will generally be heat (unless it is externally vented.) If you happen to have a thermal camera you can wander round your house and it's surprising what you will find as the culprits!
Yes, I agree - got 16 400w panels and 10kwh batteries installed last week. Spend too much time looking at the app to get any work done. Was a bright day yesterday with Wife using washing machine and jet washing outside, but still managed to fill the batteries, so looks like might have some excess over summer.A simplistic method is also to look for heat signs. Anywhere there is waste going on there will generally be heat (unless it is externally vented.) If you happen to have a thermal camera you can wander round your house and it's surprising what you will find as the culprits!
My mind is struggling what will be the best way to top-up the battery and export.
On a "normal" untimed tarrif, the answer is easy, top-up with solar and export any excess.
Octopus Flux is a timed-tariff...cheap import from grid between 0200 and 0500 (9p), good export rate between 1600 and 1900 (36p). If I export from my battery when it's a good rate, the sun will not generate enough to top up the battery. If I use the cheap import rate to top-up the battery, any solar the next day that could have been used to top up the battery will just be exported to the grid (22p). I think that I will become a weather watcher, and be checking to see if it will be sunny or cloudy tomorrow.
The low rate import I saw was more like 21p not 9p
You can end up spending too much time thinking about it!
I’m just planning to prevent my batteries discharging before the peak period (16:00-1900) starts and then rely on batteries
Likewise the care is programmed not to charge till after 10 to allow the house to use the batteries first, the. The car will also be able on a sunny day if I am at home to absorb any excess solar once the batteries have recharged. Only after that will I export at the 25p rate
You can end up spending too much time thinking about it!
I’m just planning to prevent my batteries discharging before the peak period (16:00-1900) starts and then rely on batteries
Likewise the care is programmed not to charge till after 10 to allow the house to use the batteries first, the. The car will also be able on a sunny day if I am at home to absorb any excess solar once the batteries have recharged. Only after that will I export at the 25p rate
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