Which tile backer board for shower enclosure?

[anonymous-user]

Hello all, I have stripped out and I'm refitting an en-suite shower room as the original homebuilder tiled onto regular old plasterboard and water getting behind the tiles turned the whole thing to mush...

I'm keen to avoid a repeat, so the shower enclosure will be constructed of some kind of backer board, directly onto the stud walls, but which one?

I'm put off the likes of hardiebacker as whilst it's cement and doesn't crumble when wet, it will still hold water and allow water to pass through AFAIK. I'm thinking along the lines of Marmox, Schluter-Kerdi, Wedi, but is there much difference between them? I know some are sealed at the board joins by self-adhesive tape, others by tape and separate adhesive, I'm not sure if one system is better than the other?

Any recommendations welcome, I don't want to buy the most expensive assuming it's the best, but neither do I want to skimp as the whole reason for redoing the room is to make it as watertight as possible!

[AMRoberts]

I'm in the same position as you, I found there are loads of videos on Youtube explaining the pros and cons
What I can see is that it depends on the finish you will be going for i.e. tiling or panels.
I will be going tiles so I need a fully waterproof finish so I can either use the Wedi board type sheets and seal all the edges and screws with sealant.
or use the concrete sheets, and seal the screw heads and water proof paint the concrete
Either way, I think that you should seal as much as possible but general consensus is that expensive is not always the best.
Have a look at the Ezheat website, they show some good info

[anonymous-user]

Cheers, I'm also tiling, so will definitely be going down the route of the insulated fully waterproof type boards with sealed edges, joins and screws, there just seems to be quite a few different brands, including the shed own-brands, and it's hard to see where one is better than another.

Most companies seem to stock one brand so getting an unbiased opinion from stockists seems unlikely!

[Nealio]

Roger Bisby (Skill Builder) is always banging on about the Elements boards from Abacus, closed cell foam core with a solid facing. Light, strong, completely waterproof and can tile straight on.

I used hardiebacker once and found it a pain to cut, dusty, heavy and you can't dot and dab mount it.

On the other hand, I've also used just plain moisture resistant plasterboard, tanked with Impey Waterguard membrane. My view is, if your tanking and waterproofing is up to snuff then it shouldn't matter what your substrate is. That's in theory though!

Edited by Nealio on Monday 27th January 16:00

[strath44]

Nealio said:

Roger Bisby (Skill Builder) is always banging on about the Elements boards from Abacus, closed cell foam core with a solid facing. Light, strong, completely waterproof and can tile straight on.

I used hardiebacker once and found it a pain to cut, dusty, heavy and you can't dot and dab mount it.

On the other hand, I've also used just plain moisture resistant plasterboard, tanked with Impey Waterguard membrane. My view is, if your tanking and waterproofing is up to snuff then it shouldn't matter what your substrate is. That's in theory though!

Edited by Nealio on Monday 27th January 16:00

Here is Roger in action definitely worth a watch -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_KD5HfYH0

His chat is use the foam centred, reinforced face board (in this case Abacus Elements) and then tape and seal all the joints & screw heads. That looks pretty sensible to me! and the way I would do it. Wickes randomly don't seem too bad for a 0.6x1.2m 10mm sheet of the board.

https://www.wickes.co.uk/STS-Professional-Tile-Bac...

The general chat seems to be unless you are fully tanking then avoid hardie backer etc behind tile that will get wet in a shower continually - not just a splash behind a bath. Also if you are fitting a shower tray make sure you use a seal between the top of the tray and the board prior to tiling.

ps remember to use stainless fittings

https://www.wickes.co.uk/STS-Stainless-Steel-Screw...

[anonymous-user]

strath44 said:

Here is Roger in action definitely worth a watch -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_KD5HfYH0

His chat is use the foam centred, reinforced face board (in this case Abacus Elements) and then tape and seal all the joints & screw heads. That looks pretty sensible to me! and the way I would do it. Wickes randomly don't seem too bad for a 0.6x1.2m 10mm sheet of the board.

https://www.wickes.co.uk/STS-Professional-Tile-Bac...

The general chat seems to be unless you are fully tanking then avoid hardie backer etc behind tile that will get wet in a shower continually - not just a splash behind a bath. Also if you are fitting a shower tray make sure you use a seal between the top of the tray and the board prior to tiling.

ps remember to use stainless fittings

https://www.wickes.co.uk/STS-Stainless-Steel-Screw...

Thanks, I'm a step ahead, in fact I think I've watched every single Skilbuilder video available which is why I'm confidently tackling this project!

My question was more about why for example that board at Wickes is less than half the price of the Kerdi board of similar dimensions? Brand name, or is Kerdi more sturdy, easier to cut, better insulated etc. Is the Wickes stuff the Vauxhall Mokka of boards, cheap and reliable but there's better out there

I'm using a slimline cast resin tray as I don't want to tempt leaks by having a tiled wetroom floor, and will be using the tape you get to seal between that and the board.

If there's no known differences between the boards, I'll probably go for Marmox as they seem like they've been around making the stuff for years, and it's middle of the road price wise, and they have good detailed fitting instructions on the website. Unless anyone has anything bad to say about them.

[Jakg]

I went hardiebacker and then tanked over the top of it

[MDMetal]

Jakg said:

I went hardiebacker and then tanked over the top of it

Likewise, my shower also leaked and had a mushy plasterboard backing however that was due to the stupid way the shower bar was installed and the nasty job they did of sealing it. For me I wanted something strong that wouldn't go mushy if the worst happened so I could repair things as needed. Ultimately if water makes it to the backerboard it's got to go somewhere, through it under it whatever, the issue was to stop the amount of destruction that caused.

You can seal your board as much as you like but then it'll just go through the floor if It can. SO strong boards+good tanking/lining and you should be all safe.

[Vanden Saab]

yellowbentines said:

strath44 said:

Here is Roger in action definitely worth a watch -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_KD5HfYH0

His chat is use the foam centred, reinforced face board (in this case Abacus Elements) and then tape and seal all the joints & screw heads. That looks pretty sensible to me! and the way I would do it. Wickes randomly don't seem too bad for a 0.6x1.2m 10mm sheet of the board.

https://www.wickes.co.uk/STS-Professional-Tile-Bac...

The general chat seems to be unless you are fully tanking then avoid hardie backer etc behind tile that will get wet in a shower continually - not just a splash behind a bath. Also if you are fitting a shower tray make sure you use a seal between the top of the tray and the board prior to tiling.

ps remember to use stainless fittings

https://www.wickes.co.uk/STS-Stainless-Steel-Screw...

Thanks, I'm a step ahead, in fact I think I've watched every single Skilbuilder video available which is why I'm confidently tackling this project!

My question was more about why for example that board at Wickes is less than half the price of the Kerdi board of similar dimensions? Brand name, or is Kerdi more sturdy, easier to cut, better insulated etc. Is the Wickes stuff the Vauxhall Mokka of boards, cheap and reliable but there's better out there

I'm using a slimline cast resin tray as I don't want to tempt leaks by having a tiled wetroom floor, and will be using the tape you get to seal between that and the board.

If there's no known differences between the boards, I'll probably go for Marmox as they seem like they've been around making the stuff for years, and it's middle of the road price wise, and they have good detailed fitting instructions on the website. Unless anyone has anything bad to say about them.

Brand name is just more money as they are all much of a muchness. I use deltaboard as it is stocked at my tile suppliers and I get a good trade discount. I have used different brands over the years all do the job well. Personally I silicone the butt edges, round the pipes and onto the tray rather than taping them ie. a bead of silicone along the edges before fixing each panel. Don't forget to use the large washers as a standard screw will just pull through. The plastic ones are best IMHO. You really do not need to tape and seal every screw as if you are getting that much water behind the tiles you will have more serious problems than the screws going rusty.

[guindilias]

I use plain old cement board and poly sheeting as do many bathroom installers, and my own (18 years old and never been touched - my house is like a time warp) shower is still perfect.
The Yanks have been doing it since time began (although they do have wooden houses to their names, so not as crucial and blow over regularly so maybe that's nowhere near a comparison) and seem to be as bad as me at updating their bathrooms. 8x4 sheet of 12mm cement board - £12. Poly sheeting - so cheap as to be virtually free.

Certainly if you don't do it right, you will have a mess on your hands a few months or years down the line, but the same is true of tanking, fancy backer boards at inflated prices, epoxy grout (to some extent) - I could go on. But I get that most here like to fork out on the stuff that they think makes a job easy to DIY.

It's no easier than cement board and a membrane if you are doing both right - I've done both right in friend's houses as well as my own and they have lasted.

Remember back when tiling onto plain old plasterboard was fine, as long as you used epoxy grout and a sealant?

[Aluminati]

Never again will i tile a shower now the cost of panel boards is sensible.

And i fekkin hate grouting, with a vengeance.

[guindilias]

I fekkin hate panel boards... council as you like!

[Aluminati]

guindilias said:

I fekkin hate panel boards... council as you like!

[guindilias]

[imck]

I used Delta Boards. Very easy to work with and reasonably priced
The Edges do need to supporting but easy enough to add some extra noggins into the Studwork

https://www.protilertools.co.uk/product/tilemaster...

Taped and Tanked the Joints, Fixings, Corner and Wall to Floor. Tanked the Boards. A bit OTT but previously had a nasty leak.
Finished off with Council Wall Panels. Cheap ones.

[guindilias]

That bears a remarkable resemblance to cheap polystyrene insulation board with a "tile friendly" front face...

[timberman]

One of the walls in our bathroom is a stud wall and also hides the pipework, plus its where the controls are situated for the shower heads and bath filler,

the stud wall was already covered with normal plasterboard and rather than rip it down and replace it we just made sure the whole room was very well tanked before fitting the tiles including the floor,

they've been up for over 7 years now and we've never had any issues with leaks or problems with tiles coming loose, so I'd say if your starting from scratch fine but otherwise in my opinion it's not really necessary.

[anonymous-user]

Thanks for all of the replies.

I appreciate the idea that if tanked then plasterboard should be fine, but that was supposed to be the case first time around when the house was built, but I've just ripped out and thrown away mushy plasterboard, black cavity insulation, rotten wood etc. I know if water goes through I have an issue either way, but the 'multiboard' type materials would at least keep any water internal - I'd notice a mushy floor or ceiling below before I knew a stud wall was rotting away as was nearly the case as the old bathroom looked fine, only black mould creeping into the next room gave away water was getting through.

If spending a little extra in the grand scheme of things gives me a belt and braces (with an extra belt around the braces, secured by more brace) finish then that appeals to me!

[dhutch]

yellowbentines said:

..... I'm thinking along the lines of Marmox, Schluter-Kerdi, Wedi, but is there much difference between them?

I used jackoboard on a shower repair and it was very easy to use, doubt there is much between brands, with a decent grout it shouldnt get wet but like you I fancy damp cement and foam a lot more than damp paper and gypsum.

I used the big star washers and screwed it to the wall with, some adhesive behind, only joint was a corner which I didnt tape or join at all. Its been up about 3 years now, sold the house 18 months ago but chatted to current owners who confirmed its ok still!


Daniel

[dave_s13]

Timely thread.

I'm about to rip out our en-suite that I installed about 8 years ago and has failed miserably. Well the floor has anyway.
It's a bit of a minefield with the options ranging from slapping tiles straight onto whatever's there to tub of paint on tanking to a full re-board/tanking solution that costs a million squids.

Interesting anyway.