Any telephone engineers in the W.York's area here?

[YRRunner]

Small problem with internal wiring at the BT box. BT plug-in is fine, so it's the wiring next to it (my responsibility apparently). Major crackling on the line. Need some help if anybody's in the Bingley area. My number is: 07776 304090. Cheers!

[Dave_ST220]

When you sat BT plug in is fine do you mean the test socket on an NTE5? (you removed the front plate to reveal this socket). Noise on the line can be caused by a loose joint or broken wire. Water ingress can also cause this. Each line only has one pair of cables so very easy to DIY.

[YRRunner]

Yes, I do mean the test socket. I seem to have many wires in the socket, some loose, some attached to the 4 slide in connectors. The connectors are not numbered, so its hard to tell whether the attached ones are in the right place. I've searched for a schematic on the web but can't find one showing the connections on an NTE5. Any advice? Thank you for your reply.

[bimsb6]

how many connections on the front plate 3 or 6 ? they should be numbered .white/blue goes to 5 blue white to 2 and orange white to 3. there are also several other colour codes let me know what you have .the most wires you can safely get away with in each connection is 3, and only if terminated with the correct tool ! if a screwdriver has been used it is buggered .

[Westy Pre-Lit]

Telephone lines are very simple really.

At the master socket ( the one that splits in half ) remove the front lower plate. This should disconnect every socket in the house. Plug your phone in to the rear plate left on the wall and see what you get. If you still get problems etc than it will be a BT fault, if you have a clean line don't worry.

To run a phone line you only need 3 wires connected in the lower section and as a general rule, Solid Blue to 2....Solid orange to 3 ( to make your phone ring if not DECT etc) ....White and blue to 5. If this is different then it's not a problem so long as every socket in the house is wired the same. You should just about see the numbers at the bottom of the towers.

Best get yourself a BT punch down tool if your going to do it yourself.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KRONE-BT-TYPE-PUNCHDOWN-TOOL...

Disconnect all the wires on the lower face plate ( noting which way they fit and what colour goes to what number )then put it back on. If you have a problem then you need a new face plate, which should be a BT fault.

If ok then you'll need to go through the wiring in the house. Make sure you don't redo any connections on a live line!! Remove the lower plate first, do what you have to do then put it back on.

It's then just a matter of working through the line and finding where the dodgy connection, socket or wire is.

Just remember as long as all your wires match up at all the sockets you shouldn't have a problem.

Be aware though that if you have an alarm that is monitored through the phone line it may chuck up a fault and need to be reset.

As Dave and bimsb6 says it's either loose connections, a dodgy wire, water ingress or a faulty socket.

Hope that helps for now.

Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Thursday 29th October 18:11

[bimsb6]

Westy Pre-Lit said:

Telephone lines are very simple really.

At the master socket ( the one that splits in half ) remove the front lower plate. This should disconnect every socket in the house. Plug your phone in to the rear plate left on the wall and see what you get. If you still get problems etc than it will be a BT fault, if you have a clean line don't worry.

To run a phone line you only need 3 wires connected in the lower section and as a general rule, Solid Blue to 2....Solid orange to 3 ( to make your phone ring if not DECT etc) ....White and blue to 5. If this is different then it's not a problem so long as every socket in the house is wired the same. You should just about see the numbers at the bottom of the towers.

Best get yourself a BT punch down tool if your going to do it yourself.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KRONE-BT-TYPE-PUNCHDOWN-TOOL...

Disconnect all the wires on the lower face plate ( noting which way they fit and what colour goes to what number )then put it back on. If you have a problem then you need a new face plate, which should be a BT fault.

If ok then you'll need to go through the wiring in the house. Make sure you don't redo any connections on a live line!! Remove the lower plate first, do what you have to do then put it back on.

It's then just a matter of working through the line and finding where the dodgy connection, socket or wire is.

Just remember as long as all your wires match up at all the sockets you shouldn't have a problem.

Be aware though that if you have an alarm that is monitored through the phone line it may chuck up a fault and need to be reset.

As Dave and bimsb6 says it's either loose connections, a dodgy wire, water ingress or a faulty socket.

Hope that helps for now.

Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Thursday 29th October 18:11

if you have a monitored alarm it should be connected under the screw terminals not on the front plate .

[YRRunner]

Thank you everybody. Problem solved. Wasn't at the socket as it turns out. Some idiot forgot that you have to ADSL suppress all phones plugged into extensions. It was interference from the wireless broadband, Duh!!! Thanks again for all advice and input.

[Dave_ST220]

bimsb6 said:

if you have a monitored alarm it should be connected under the screw terminals not on the front plate .

No it shouldn't!! NOTHING other than the incomming pair should be connected to the rear A & B terminals. If an ADSL line the alarm would need to go via a filter too.
Rather than have plug in filters on all extensions you are better off with a filtered faceplate :-
http://www.bttorj45.com/xte-2005-cloneadslfaceplat...

[bimsb6]

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

if you have a monitored alarm it should be connected under the screw terminals not on the front plate .

No it shouldn't!! NOTHING other than the incomming pair should be connected to the rear A & B terminals. If an ADSL line the alarm would need to go via a filter too.
Rather than have plug in filters on all extensions you are better off with a filtered faceplate :-
http://www.bttorj45.com/xte-2005-cloneadslfaceplat...

seeing as i have been doing this for 26 years i think i am more than qualified to advise where to connect the line !a MONITORED line ie redcare should be connected to the a and b terminals the alarm panel should have a built in adsl filter. the face plate you have linked to is only any good if the router is plugged in at the nte .

Edited by bimsb6 on Saturday 31st October 14:54

[Dave_ST220]

bimsb6 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

if you have a monitored alarm it should be connected under the screw terminals not on the front plate .

No it shouldn't!! NOTHING other than the incomming pair should be connected to the rear A & B terminals. If an ADSL line the alarm would need to go via a filter too.
Rather than have plug in filters on all extensions you are better off with a filtered faceplate :-
http://www.bttorj45.com/xte-2005-cloneadslfaceplat...

seeing as i have been doing this for 26 years i think i am more than qualified to advise where to connect the line !a MONITORED line ie redcare should be connected to the a and b terminals the alarm panel should have a built in adsl filter. the face plate you have linked to is only any good if the router is plugged in at the nte .

Edited by bimsb6 on Saturday 31st October 14:54

Redcare is terminated via a BT92A, & the faceplate i have linked to is perfectly OK for an ADSL extension. Nothing other than the incoming BT pair should terminate to the A & B rear connections on an NTE.

[bimsb6]

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

if you have a monitored alarm it should be connected under the screw terminals not on the front plate .

No it shouldn't!! NOTHING other than the incomming pair should be connected to the rear A & B terminals. If an ADSL line the alarm would need to go via a filter too.
Rather than have plug in filters on all extensions you are better off with a filtered faceplate :-
http://www.bttorj45.com/xte-2005-cloneadslfaceplat...

seeing as i have been doing this for 26 years i think i am more than qualified to advise where to connect the line !a MONITORED line ie redcare should be connected to the a and b terminals the alarm panel should have a built in adsl filter. the face plate you have linked to is only any good if the router is plugged in at the nte .

Edited by bimsb6 on Saturday 31st October 14:54

Redcare is terminated via a BT92A, & the faceplate i have linked to is perfectly OK for an ADSL extension. Nothing other than the incoming BT pair should terminate to the A & B rear connections on an NTE.

you seem to have missed the point i install these things ! a redcare termination is via a bt92 that is correct but the connections should be under the screw terminals on the nte as the service should not be disconnected ,this way the e/u can wire their own extns without disturbing the redcare connection .

Edited by bimsb6 on Tuesday 3rd November 17:34

[Westy Pre-Lit]

We fit these inside the panel so it's filtered as standard fit, whether broadband is on the line or not. Yet to have one that has caused a problem. (6th one down 65mm)

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm

A bit cheaper as well It leaves the customers line unfiltered so they still have to use the plug in filters and we can't be blamed for any problems with the face plate.

Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Tuesday 3rd November 19:11

[Dave_ST220]

bimsb6 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

if you have a monitored alarm it should be connected under the screw terminals not on the front plate .

No it shouldn't!! NOTHING other than the incomming pair should be connected to the rear A & B terminals. If an ADSL line the alarm would need to go via a filter too.
Rather than have plug in filters on all extensions you are better off with a filtered faceplate :-
http://www.bttorj45.com/xte-2005-cloneadslfaceplat...

seeing as i have been doing this for 26 years i think i am more than qualified to advise where to connect the line !a MONITORED line ie redcare should be connected to the a and b terminals the alarm panel should have a built in adsl filter. the face plate you have linked to is only any good if the router is plugged in at the nte .

Edited by bimsb6 on Saturday 31st October 14:54

Redcare is terminated via a BT92A, & the faceplate i have linked to is perfectly OK for an ADSL extension. Nothing other than the incoming BT pair should terminate to the A & B rear connections on an NTE.

you seem to have missed the point i install these things ! a redcare termination is via a bt92 that is correct but the connections should be under the screw terminals on the nte as the service should not be disconnected ,this way the e/u can wire their own extns without disturbing the redcare connection .

Edited by bimsb6 on Tuesday 3rd November 17:34

I haven't missed the point at all, I've seen your profile, you work for BT. In which case you know full bloody well what the demarcation point is yes? That would be the NTE5(or first socket/junction on the line if no NTE5 fitted) or the external NTE that is now fitted to new builds. You sticking an extension(as that is what it is-doesn't matter if it is for an alarm, fax machine or whatever) to the rear of the NTE means there is now no clear demarcation point. So, Mr ADSL user gets his new monitored alarm fitted, the dumb ass who installs it uses no filter, his BB keeps dropping out so he calls his ISP. They get Openreach to do a line check which will report no problems. Eventually after getting pissed off his ISP gets Openreach to visit, after around 3 hours of head scratching the Openreach "engineer" discovers the rogue extension fitted to the REAR of the NTE5. That would be around £150+ VAT for the call out please. That is based on a TRUE story The fact is that if wired correctly there would be none of this and the alarm can not be unplugged any easier(as you would have to undo do two screws and unplug the lower front faceplate of the NTE5) than if wired to the rear of the NTE. So, the demarcation point no longer exists as far as BT are concerned? We can now all go around terminating extensions directly to the BT side of things? ps, i install these things too!

[Dave_ST220]

Westy Pre-Lit said:

We fit these inside the panel so it's filtered as standard fit, whether broadband is on the line or not. Yet to have one that has caused a problem. (6th one down 65mm)

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm

A bit cheaper as well It leaves the customers line unfiltered so they still have to use the plug in filters and we can't be blamed for any problems with the face plate.

Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Tuesday 3rd November 19:11

The people who make the NTE5 for Openreach (Pressac) make this for this very application:-
http://www.presscomm.co.uk/pdf/DS035-Hardwired%20A...

[bimsb6]

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

if you have a monitored alarm it should be connected under the screw terminals not on the front plate .

No it shouldn't!! NOTHING other than the incomming pair should be connected to the rear A & B terminals. If an ADSL line the alarm would need to go via a filter too.
Rather than have plug in filters on all extensions you are better off with a filtered faceplate :-
http://www.bttorj45.com/xte-2005-cloneadslfaceplat...

as you yourself say in your scenario the problem would lie with the "dumbass" alarm engineer for an incorrect install ! the instructions on a bt92a clearly state "ALWAYS hardwire the bt92a on the line/network side of any installation " you dont actually say what or who you work for so i am assuming its not bt/openreach ? so i stand by what i say ,a redcare is terminated on the network side of the nte5 and no the e/u cannot also connect to the screw terminals as that side is the property of BT'S .


seeing as i have been doing this for 26 years i think i am more than qualified to advise where to connect the line !a MONITORED line ie redcare should be connected to the a and b terminals the alarm panel should have a built in adsl filter. the face plate you have linked to is only any good if the router is plugged in at the nte .

Edited by bimsb6 on Saturday 31st October 14:54

Redcare is terminated via a BT92A, & the faceplate i have linked to is perfectly OK for an ADSL extension. Nothing other than the incoming BT pair should terminate to the A & B rear connections on an NTE.

you seem to have missed the point i install these things ! a redcare termination is via a bt92 that is correct but the connections should be under the screw terminals on the nte as the service should not be disconnected ,this way the e/u can wire their own extns without disturbing the redcare connection .

Edited by bimsb6 on Tuesday 3rd November 17:34

I haven't missed the point at all, I've seen your profile, you work for BT. In which case you know full bloody well what the demarcation point is yes? That would be the NTE5(or first socket/junction on the line if no NTE5 fitted) or the external NTE that is now fitted to new builds. You sticking an extension(as that is what it is-doesn't matter if it is for an alarm, fax machine or whatever) to the rear of the NTE means there is now no clear demarcation point. So, Mr ADSL user gets his new monitored alarm fitted, the dumb ass who installs it uses no filter, his BB keeps dropping out so he calls his ISP. They get Openreach to do a line check which will report no problems. Eventually after getting pissed off his ISP gets Openreach to visit, after around 3 hours of head scratching the Openreach "engineer" discovers the rogue extension fitted to the REAR of the NTE5. That would be around £150+ VAT for the call out please. That is based on a TRUE story The fact is that if wired correctly there would be none of this and the alarm can not be unplugged any easier(as you would have to undo do two screws and unplug the lower front faceplate of the NTE5) than if wired to the rear of the NTE. So, the demarcation point no longer exists as far as BT are concerned? We can now all go around terminating extensions directly to the BT side of things? ps, i install these things too!

[Dave_ST220]

This argument is pretty imaterial now anyway seeing as you can not have ADSL on a Redcare line anymore.

[bimsb6]

Dave_ST220 said:

This argument is pretty imaterial now anyway seeing as you can not have ADSL on a Redcare line anymore.

not heard that one !

[jhfozzy]

FFS

bimsb6 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

if you have a monitored alarm it should be connected under the screw terminals not on the front plate .

No it shouldn't!! NOTHING other than the incomming pair should be connected to the rear A & B terminals. If an ADSL line the alarm would need to go via a filter too.
Rather than have plug in filters on all extensions you are better off with a filtered faceplate :-
http://www.bttorj45.com/xte-2005-cloneadslfaceplat...

seeing as i have been doing this for 26 years i think i am more than qualified to advise where to connect the line !a MONITORED line ie redcare should be connected to the a and b terminals the alarm panel should have a built in adsl filter. the face plate you have linked to is only any good if the router is plugged in at the nte .

BT said:

The alarm should ideally be wired directly to the master socket as a normal extension, although there's no real functional problem if it's hardwired to a secondary extension point elsewhere. This means that it's connected to the BT Exchange Line on YOUR side of the master socket. This is VERY important.

Unfortunately, some alarm installers appear to think it's "ok" to hardwire the alarm connections onto the BACK of the NTE5 box, effectively directly onto the BT Exchange Line, and bypassing the all-important master line box which marks the official demarcation point between you and the public telephone network. This practice is bluntly inexcusable.

FIRST it's illegal. YOU are responsible for what's effectively tampering with your BT line, not your alarm company - so YOU are liable.

SECOND it means that a BT engineer is unable to make a completely uncontaminated test on the exchange line via the test socket in the NTE5 unit - which is the whole point of the NTE5 type unit!

And then we have...
THIRD It means that no amount of microfilters or master box adaptors is any use for filtering your alarm if you choose to have ADSL. Without filters there IS an incompatibility because the alarm and ADSL will pi$$ each other off no end.

Dave_ST220 said:

This argument is pretty imaterial now anyway seeing as you can not have ADSL on a Redcare line anymore.

BT said:

Redcare is a very specific BT product which monitors the line 24/7 and alerts the control center in the event of the line being cut or similar. Redcare keeps a constant signal on the line to do this.

Previously this system was completely incompatible with broadband use on the same line, but fortunately good old BT have now changed things so that Redcare and Broadband can peacefully co-exist.

Redcare connections installed since 31st July 2003 are broadband compatible.

Edited by jhfozzy on Wednesday 4th November 15:40

[Westy Pre-Lit]

Dave_ST220 said:

Westy Pre-Lit said:

We fit these inside the panel so it's filtered as standard fit, whether broadband is on the line or not. Yet to have one that has caused a problem. (6th one down 65mm)

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm

A bit cheaper as well It leaves the customers line unfiltered so they still have to use the plug in filters and we can't be blamed for any problems with the face plate.

Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Tuesday 3rd November 19:11

The people who make the NTE5 for Openreach (Pressac) make this for this very application:-
http://www.presscomm.co.uk/pdf/DS035-Hardwired%20A...

Is that cheaper than £3.30 ?

[bimsb6]

jhfozzy said:

FFS

bimsb6 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

bimsb6 said:

if you have a monitored alarm it should be connected under the screw terminals not on the front plate .

No it shouldn't!! NOTHING other than the incomming pair should be connected to the rear A & B terminals. If an ADSL line the alarm would need to go via a filter too.
Rather than have plug in filters on all extensions you are better off with a filtered faceplate :-
http://www.bttorj45.com/xte-2005-cloneadslfaceplat...

seeing as i have been doing this for 26 years i think i am more than qualified to advise where to connect the line !a MONITORED line ie redcare should be connected to the a and b terminals the alarm panel should have a built in adsl filter. the face plate you have linked to is only any good if the router is plugged in at the nte .

BT said:

The alarm should ideally be wired directly to the master socket as a normal extension, although there's no real functional problem if it's hardwired to a secondary extension point elsewhere. This means that it's connected to the BT Exchange Line on YOUR side of the master socket. This is VERY important.

Unfortunately, some alarm installers appear to think it's "ok" to hardwire the alarm connections onto the BACK of the NTE5 box, effectively directly onto the BT Exchange Line, and bypassing the all-important master line box which marks the official demarcation point between you and the public telephone network. This practice is bluntly inexcusable.

FIRST it's illegal. YOU are responsible for what's effectively tampering with your BT line, not your alarm company - so YOU are liable.

SECOND it means that a BT engineer is unable to make a completely uncontaminated test on the exchange line via the test socket in the NTE5 unit - which is the whole point of the NTE5 type unit!

And then we have...
THIRD It means that no amount of microfilters or master box adaptors is any use for filtering your alarm if you choose to have ADSL. Without filters there IS an incompatibility because the alarm and ADSL will pi$$ each other off no end.

Dave_ST220 said:

This argument is pretty imaterial now anyway seeing as you can not have ADSL on a Redcare line anymore.

BT said:

Redcare is a very specific BT product which monitors the line 24/7 and alerts the control center in the event of the line being cut or similar. Redcare keeps a constant signal on the line to do this.

Previously this system was completely incompatible with broadband use on the same line, but fortunately good old BT have now changed things so that Redcare and Broadband can peacefully co-exist.

Redcare connections installed since 31st July 2003 are broadband compatible.

Edited by jhfozzy on Wednesday 4th November 15:40

the install instructions that come with EVERY BT 92a redcare block quite clearly state the connection must be made on the line side of the nte this is only to be connected by openreach engineers as it is on our side of the circuit . other non monitored lines can be connected on the front plate or off an extn .