We have a leak.....HELP!

[WWESTY]

House recently extended.

Exceptional weather recently with wind driven rain has resulted in a couple of damp patches....

The water seems to be coming in around a pair of French doors (1st floor level) and then finding its way down to ceiling underneath.

Window installer is good bloke and has been trying to find problem, but nothing visible at all. Has sealed everything he can.

Just dont know what to do next.....

Pics show internal and external during construction.

Anyone got any inspiration of what to look for/how to solve??







Flat roof is fibreglass "warm" construction. Fibreglass was lipped up the wall and then leading over top at roof:wall join, under sill of doors.

There is now a glass juliet screen in front of doors, which should be helping to deflect driving rain.....

Edited by WWESTY on Thursday 26th November 14:52

Edited by WWESTY on Thursday 26th November 14:56

[WWESTY]

Just spoken to window guys again and they are going to take out doors and check frame/fixings/wall etc on Tuesday....gonna be messy but seems only route left....

[henrycrun]

Is the hopper at the roof valley blocked or incorrectly attached ? Just a thought if water is cascading down the wall

[V12Les]

I'd check the vertical DPC in the door jambs.

[d8evo]

check where the lead flashing that forms your flat roof/wall abutment is dressed into the masonry, most likely if this is not finished adequatey, water is being drawn across the top by capilliary action and bridging the cavity. it may not be the door itself.

[WWESTY]

Thanks chaps. Some good points.

Another suggestion is that maybe the builder didnt put in a proper lintel under the doors - just built off the steel beam - and water is getting across cavity from soaked external bricks...

More wind and rain tonight so have tried to cover area with tarpaulin for now...

[jules_s]

WWESTY said:

Thanks chaps. Some good points.

Another suggestion is that maybe the builder didnt put in a proper lintel under the doors - just built off the steel beam - and water is getting across cavity from soaked external bricks...

More wind and rain tonight so have tried to cover area with tarpaulin for now...

That doesn't make sense to me, I can't think of a reason to put a lintel under the doors? and the window installer? I'm presuming the window/doors were there before you extended?

I also presume you mean a cavity tray which should have been put in just above the flashings below the door? if the ceiling is damp in the extension then the walls above the new opening would be too?

I'd also check whether the friendly window installer has been a bit over enthusiastic with the mastic and has sealed off all of the weepvents to the door frame...

[dr_gn]

WWESTY said:

House recently extended.

Exceptional weather recently with wind driven rain has resulted in a couple of damp patches....

The water seems to be coming in around a pair of French doors (1st floor level) and then finding its way down to ceiling underneath.

Window installer is good bloke and has been trying to find problem, but nothing visible at all. Has sealed everything he can.

Just dont know what to do next.....

Pics show internal and external during construction.

Anyone got any inspiration of what to look for/how to solve??







Flat roof is fibreglass "warm" construction. Fibreglass was lipped up the wall and then leading over top at roof:wall join, under sill of doors.

There is now a glass juliet screen in front of doors, which should be helping to deflect driving rain.....

Edited by WWESTY on Thursday 26th November 14:52

Edited by WWESTY on Thursday 26th November 14:56

Had a similar problem with the bay window sets in our self-build. Turned out that they'd forgotten to drill drain holes in the transoms. Rain was getting in at the corners of the beading, then had nowhere to go, so ended up filling the transom channels and running out of the internal beading.

Drilled a couple of drain holes, job done.

BTW, you need a couple of bends on that downpipe from the new hopper to get it vertical - it looks terrible

Edited by dr_gn on Thursday 26th November 20:52

[WWESTY]

jules_s said:

WWESTY said:

Thanks chaps. Some good points.

Another suggestion is that maybe the builder didnt put in a proper lintel under the doors - just built off the steel beam - and water is getting across cavity from soaked external bricks...

More wind and rain tonight so have tried to cover area with tarpaulin for now...

That doesn't make sense to me, I can't think of a reason to put a lintel under the doors? and the window installer? I'm presuming the window/doors were there before you extended?

I also presume you mean a cavity tray which should have been put in just above the flashings below the door? if the ceiling is damp in the extension then the walls above the new opening would be too?

I'd also check whether the friendly window installer has been a bit over enthusiastic with the mastic and has sealed off all of the weepvents to the door frame...

sorry...I meant cavity tray...blame the stress of the leak...

windows doors were part of extension, as was sun room...ceiling in sun room is damp underneath the doors.The area marked to left of doors is only damp patch above...

Have checked weepvents and drainage channels and all seems in order...no water collecting in channel under the doors (transom?)...

Downpipe no longer sports such a jaunty angle btw! Photo was taken during build.

[dr_gn]

WWESTY said:

jules_s said:

WWESTY said:

Thanks chaps. Some good points.

Another suggestion is that maybe the builder didnt put in a proper lintel under the doors - just built off the steel beam - and water is getting across cavity from soaked external bricks...

More wind and rain tonight so have tried to cover area with tarpaulin for now...

That doesn't make sense to me, I can't think of a reason to put a lintel under the doors? and the window installer? I'm presuming the window/doors were there before you extended?

I also presume you mean a cavity tray which should have been put in just above the flashings below the door? if the ceiling is damp in the extension then the walls above the new opening would be too?

I'd also check whether the friendly window installer has been a bit over enthusiastic with the mastic and has sealed off all of the weepvents to the door frame...

sorry...I meant cavity tray...blame the stress of the leak...

windows doors were part of extension, as was sun room...ceiling in sun room is damp underneath the doors.The area marked to left of doors is only damp patch above...

Have checked weepvents and drainage channels and all seems in order...no water collecting in channel under the doors (transom?)...

Downpipe no longer sports such a jaunty angle btw! Photo was taken during build.

That's me out of ideas then - sorry.

Apart from..if it's dry now and you're expecting rain, you could sprinkle some talc down around the bottoms of all the units. It might make tracing the exact source of the leak easier?

[jules_s]

WWESTY said:

sorry...I meant cavity tray...blame the stress of the leak...

Well, nothing can be 100%, but I'm betting your lack of cavity tray is the problem here..

[Busamav]

Cavity tray is my bet ,

how is it linked to the lead flashing /fibreglass roof covering and then how is it pointed on the outside ?

Edited by Busamav on Thursday 26th November 21:33

[V12Les]

Another point to look for: Before the door frame is fitted to the cill there should be a bead of silicone along the back edge and returning about 70mm or so at each end of the cill, it stops any rain water overflowing the sides and alot of fitters dont bother doing this. If the tray is fitted corectly it should pick this up, things do seem to be pointing to problems with the tray, it may be in there but that dosen't mean its fitted right.

[jules_s]

V12Les said:

Another point to look for: Before the door frame is fitted to the cill there should be a bead of silicone along the back edge and returning about 70mm or so at each end of the cill, it stops any rain water overflowing the sides and alot of fitters dont bother doing this. If the tray is fitted corectly it should pick this up, things do seem to be pointing to problems with the tray, it may be in there but that dosen't mean its fitted right.

That's a good point (I think) but surely it depends on what sort of cavity closure is used? Blockwork as opposed to thermabate etc

The orginal building (as pics) wont have a dpc/tray under the first floor french windows, so to me, given the built extension, the detail under the french door cill will be irrelevant given the extension is wider than the first floor opening?

As an aside, god only knows how the OP got planning for that extension with french doors at 1st floor level. My LA wouldn't even entertain it.

[dr_gn]

jules_s said:

V12Les said:

Another point to look for: Before the door frame is fitted to the cill there should be a bead of silicone along the back edge and returning about 70mm or so at each end of the cill, it stops any rain water overflowing the sides and alot of fitters dont bother doing this. If the tray is fitted corectly it should pick this up, things do seem to be pointing to problems with the tray, it may be in there but that dosen't mean its fitted right.

As an aside, god only knows how the OP got planning for that extension with french doors at 1st floor level. My LA wouldn't even entertain it.

Totally OT, but surely that balcony is blatantly overlooking the neighbours' garden? My neighbours wanted a very similar thing in their extension, and that was the *only* thing that I got their plans rejected on.

[blackcab]

Just to bear in mind ... if water is getting in has it got beneath the roof membrane ( fibreglass) and insulation - If so, hope they have fitted marine grade ply and not osb3 board commonly used in GRP roofs - those boards dont take moisture or damp very well.

[WWESTY]

Some more interesting points, thanks all.

Don't know yet whether there is a cavity tray or not...its just an idea of something that could be to blame....

Builder went awol near end of project so unfortunately he isn't an option to help/discuss/etc...

The doors barely overlook next doors garden actually - certainly no more than the window that was there in the original house. There is no balcony, just a juliette rail. Originally we had idea of putting a balcony on the flat roof, but that was indeed thrown out by planners.

Its definitely something to do with wind blown rain (wall faces west into prevailing winds) as we have had some pretty heavy downpours previously with no problem (but no strong wind at the time).

Frustrating part is we had some issues in the area during the build, which resulted in the doors being reinstalled, and we thought that solved it, but it seems that it didn't, just we didnt have the right weather to show it up...

Very frustrating as we thought we had moved on from all the structural stuff and only had internal decoration etc to worry about....

Sunroom ceiling last night:




and patch on wall above, as indicated previously, to left of doors


Thing is, if there were no cavity tray, surely there would be a problem across a wider area?? And why the issue as shown above - can't see how that would tie in....?

[WWESTY]

Oh and just to clarify, the whole of the back of the house as seen in photos is new build/extension.....we built on the side and the rear of the existing house.

Found two pics of the area from during the build...but not sure if they help establish much...






Incidentally, if we establish there is no cavity tray....where do we go from there????

Edited by WWESTY on Friday 27th November 10:55

[52classic]

First thought is that this looks expensive to rectify. The tray should really be only a backstop to catch any water that has passed through other damp protection measures.

Therefore the amount of water on the ceiling seems quite a lot for a tray problem alone.

I would try some lateral thinking to eliminate the simple & cheap stuff first.

My money would be on the joint between the bottom of the frame and the cill.
The wind is blowing the storm water towards that corner so that the joint 'floods' and water is taken into the joint by capilliary action.

Taking advantage of the current bad weather I would dry the PVC then close the entire length of the joint with Gaffer tape, just leaving the weep holes in the PVC frame clear. Leave a fillet of about 30mm onto the brickwork.

Now monitor whether the problem recurs in tne next storm. My guess is that it won't and the worst you will have to do is remove and refit the door!

[dr_gn]

This is my French door unit - looks very similar to yours. Check that the drain holes are there (the oval holes in the bottom of the frame).



You could even pour some water in there and see *where* it drains to!