bungalow loft extension build
Discussion
Finally I get to start my own build thread on here! We have been building for a few months and I am hoping to update steadily so that the thread catches up with where we are at.
We have been living in our 3 bed bungalow for about 4 years now and with 3 kids, space is tight. We moved here from a slightly larger house but did so for the village lifestyle and good schools. It was absolutely the right decision but the opportunity eventually came up to extend our home to create the space we really need.
This is the house as existing:
[pic]
20190917_215630 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20190524_165800 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
And the plans:
The idea was to create 2 additional bedrooms. My boys share the existing bedroom toward the middle of the house. They are going to move into the other 2 bedrooms (1 each) and my daughter and me and swmbo will move upstairs. This then frees up the boys room to become a 2nd living space.
The stairs will go in the existing hallway, with basically no impact on the ground floor layout.
This is what we are building
[pic]
20190917_215807 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
The architect looked at converting the existing roofspace initially but convinced us that it would be a better idea (and apparently not that much more money?) to take the roof off and raise it just over 1m, so that we could maximise space. We are having 3 dormers on the front and two on the back.
My daughters room was fairly straightforward, with a functional ensuite at the rear. For the master, we are wanting to create something a bit better. I played around with lots of ideas but settled on the above. The middle dormer will house a dressing room and is accessed off the bedroom.
Our ensuite was already slightly larger than the other one but we have also decided to eat further into the bedroom. Where the shower is shown was bedroom space stuck behind the door that I was worried would just do nothing. Given that we have the dressing room, all we need is a bed and bedside tables, so we enlarged the ensuite further so that we can have a decent size walk in shower and bath.
Next post will be some details of the initial 'build' - or should I say, the bit where all the problems are discovered and we start taking the house to bits!!
We have been living in our 3 bed bungalow for about 4 years now and with 3 kids, space is tight. We moved here from a slightly larger house but did so for the village lifestyle and good schools. It was absolutely the right decision but the opportunity eventually came up to extend our home to create the space we really need.
This is the house as existing:
[pic]
20190917_215630 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
20190524_165800 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]And the plans:
The idea was to create 2 additional bedrooms. My boys share the existing bedroom toward the middle of the house. They are going to move into the other 2 bedrooms (1 each) and my daughter and me and swmbo will move upstairs. This then frees up the boys room to become a 2nd living space.
The stairs will go in the existing hallway, with basically no impact on the ground floor layout.
This is what we are building
[pic]
20190917_215807 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]The architect looked at converting the existing roofspace initially but convinced us that it would be a better idea (and apparently not that much more money?) to take the roof off and raise it just over 1m, so that we could maximise space. We are having 3 dormers on the front and two on the back.
My daughters room was fairly straightforward, with a functional ensuite at the rear. For the master, we are wanting to create something a bit better. I played around with lots of ideas but settled on the above. The middle dormer will house a dressing room and is accessed off the bedroom.
Our ensuite was already slightly larger than the other one but we have also decided to eat further into the bedroom. Where the shower is shown was bedroom space stuck behind the door that I was worried would just do nothing. Given that we have the dressing room, all we need is a bed and bedside tables, so we enlarged the ensuite further so that we can have a decent size walk in shower and bath.
Next post will be some details of the initial 'build' - or should I say, the bit where all the problems are discovered and we start taking the house to bits!!
Edited by covmutley on Tuesday 17th September 22:41
Edited by covmutley on Tuesday 17th September 22:41
Layout is fixed as were under way. It wasnt easy getting what we want, how we want. Even with whole new roof we are constrained by location of stairs and hallway and the need for a small rear gable at the back which makes that area unusable.
I looked at an option similar to what you said, but dressing area is too small for Jack and jill by the time you add doors both sides. Plus I dont want to share a bathroom with my daughter- I would never get in it.
The front to back distance between the dormer windows is something like 8m, which seems excessive for a bedroom. The other thing I found was that if you dont use the dormers for bathroom suites, they become much less useful as I dont really want a bed under a window and you cant use them for wardrobes and still have good sized windows!
We are going to make some under roof slope storage that isn't shown on the plans. The storage area next to stairs is all in the roof slope. You can only stand in the first 1 or 2 foot of it, but fine for storing suitcases etc and we are putting new heating system in there too.
Windows serving bedrooms are about 2m wide, so light should be good.
I looked at an option similar to what you said, but dressing area is too small for Jack and jill by the time you add doors both sides. Plus I dont want to share a bathroom with my daughter- I would never get in it.
The front to back distance between the dormer windows is something like 8m, which seems excessive for a bedroom. The other thing I found was that if you dont use the dormers for bathroom suites, they become much less useful as I dont really want a bed under a window and you cant use them for wardrobes and still have good sized windows!
We are going to make some under roof slope storage that isn't shown on the plans. The storage area next to stairs is all in the roof slope. You can only stand in the first 1 or 2 foot of it, but fine for storing suitcases etc and we are putting new heating system in there too.
Windows serving bedrooms are about 2m wide, so light should be good.
Edited by covmutley on Tuesday 1st October 22:34
First job was to get the scaffolding tent up. Took 4 guys best part of a week. It has done a solid job of keeping us dry throughout and has withstood some very heavy rain and wind over the last few months.
Then it was on with taking the roof off, which is where all the problems began. I got a phone call from the builder whilst I was at work to say that the gable ends of the house were shot, due to a bad mortar mix and rusted through wall ties. That evening when I got home from work I went up on the scaffolding and pushing the gable with one finger was enough to make the whole thing wobble!
It seems the roof was holding the wall up, not the other way round.
Another problem was that the chimney had not been properly built on both brick skins, so we decided it had to come down too.
[pic]
20190621_195134 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20190619_081953 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
Next problem was the existing ceilings and rafters. The rafters had wood worm and the ceilings were sagging badly. From below, they didnt look too bad but that was because they had been skimmed numerous times. As the rafters could be redundant, we decided, somewhat reluctantly, that now was the right time to do it properly and redo the ceilings
Then it was on with taking the roof off, which is where all the problems began. I got a phone call from the builder whilst I was at work to say that the gable ends of the house were shot, due to a bad mortar mix and rusted through wall ties. That evening when I got home from work I went up on the scaffolding and pushing the gable with one finger was enough to make the whole thing wobble!
It seems the roof was holding the wall up, not the other way round.
Another problem was that the chimney had not been properly built on both brick skins, so we decided it had to come down too.
[pic]
20190621_195134 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
20190619_081953 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]Next problem was the existing ceilings and rafters. The rafters had wood worm and the ceilings were sagging badly. From below, they didnt look too bad but that was because they had been skimmed numerous times. As the rafters could be redundant, we decided, somewhat reluctantly, that now was the right time to do it properly and redo the ceilings
The builders had other commitments, so progress was slow, but eventually we got building, rather than demolishing!
We have opted for a roof truss design, with posi joists. This was to allow soil waste pipes to exit without having to lots of drainage groundworks, and im sure the electrician and plumber will appreciate the generous void!
The trusses are over specced in reality, but impressive bits of kit. The existing kitchen and living room ceiling was removed first, and the photo below shows the trusses and joists in situ.
[pic]
20190807_195500 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
This shows them from above. You can see part of the old ceiling still in place and the new wall plate the trusses sit on
[pic]
20190807_200146 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
We have opted for a roof truss design, with posi joists. This was to allow soil waste pipes to exit without having to lots of drainage groundworks, and im sure the electrician and plumber will appreciate the generous void!
The trusses are over specced in reality, but impressive bits of kit. The existing kitchen and living room ceiling was removed first, and the photo below shows the trusses and joists in situ.
[pic]
20190807_195500 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]This shows them from above. You can see part of the old ceiling still in place and the new wall plate the trusses sit on
[pic]
20190807_200146 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]Glad someone is interested. I will keep updating in that case!
I dug down to the foundation before we started. They are strip and not the thickest concrete pad, but are a good way down (about 1m from memory?) on the sub soil. Builder and architect both checked and said it's fine. Building inspector hasn't asked yet, but the hole is still there just in case !
We are switching from heavy concrete tiles to fibre cement slate, so the weight may not be as bigger gain as you might expect
I dug down to the foundation before we started. They are strip and not the thickest concrete pad, but are a good way down (about 1m from memory?) on the sub soil. Builder and architect both checked and said it's fine. Building inspector hasn't asked yet, but the hole is still there just in case !
We are switching from heavy concrete tiles to fibre cement slate, so the weight may not be as bigger gain as you might expect
gangzoom said:
How are you finding the stress of having a no roof over your heads, literally!!
It has been a mixed bag. It is almost fun at times, in a sort of 'blitz spirit' type of way and we have a laugh about it with people. But it creeps up on you and gets harder, especially with some of the windy and wet weather we had in August. The tent has been very good though. Barely leaks. Do not skimp on one!!
We went on holiday for a week when they did the kitchen and living room, but otherwise we have been there.
Kids are 7, 10 and 15. Oldest spent a couple of days staying at her friends. We had a couple of nights on an air bed in our boys room. It was august, so relatively warm.
One night with no hot water or heating. A couple of days with no lights in one bathroom. Comfortable camping basically!
Kids are 7, 10 and 15. Oldest spent a couple of days staying at her friends. We had a couple of nights on an air bed in our boys room. It was august, so relatively warm.
One night with no hot water or heating. A couple of days with no lights in one bathroom. Comfortable camping basically!
Next stage was to add the dormers in the first section of roof (my new bedroom and bathroom). These were initially going to be trusses too, but the ceiling height would have been lower than ideal, so they ended up being cut roof.
[pic]
20190830_191958 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
This shape is repeated at the other end of the house. The side gable was erected too, although it was just sat on the wall. After demolishing the gables, the builders cut concrete slabs to bridge the 2 brick skins and create a nice platform for the new timber gable ends to sit on.
[pic]
20190909_193631 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
After getting the basic structure in place at one end, they switched to the other. More ceilings came down first, and the trusses and joists went in. My daughter stayed with her friend a couple of nights. You can see that the builders kindly put up a sheet to act as a temporary ceiling for us! But we camped the night on an air bed in the boys room instead.
[pic]
20190909_193959 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20190830_191958 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]This shape is repeated at the other end of the house. The side gable was erected too, although it was just sat on the wall. After demolishing the gables, the builders cut concrete slabs to bridge the 2 brick skins and create a nice platform for the new timber gable ends to sit on.
[pic]
20190909_193631 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]After getting the basic structure in place at one end, they switched to the other. More ceilings came down first, and the trusses and joists went in. My daughter stayed with her friend a couple of nights. You can see that the builders kindly put up a sheet to act as a temporary ceiling for us! But we camped the night on an air bed in the boys room instead.
[pic]
20190909_193959 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]Progress on the dormers....
[pic]
20190917_184431 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20191001_182912 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20190917_184431 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
20191001_182912 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]More progress.
Once the roof structure was done, the roofers came to felt and batten.
[pic]
20191013_175913 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
The photo below is taken from stood in the ensuite. The larger window on the left is the bedroom window. The dormer on the right with the smaller window is the dressing room
[pic]
20191013_175959 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
and this is looking through the bedroom window, back toward the ensuite. there is nobody behind us, so we are having a large window that will be clear glass, plus another glazed section above it. Along with the high ceiling of the dormer, Im hoping its going to help the ensuite feel quiet spacious
[pic]
20191013_175922 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
Once the roof structure was done, the roofers came to felt and batten.
[pic]
20191013_175913 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]The photo below is taken from stood in the ensuite. The larger window on the left is the bedroom window. The dormer on the right with the smaller window is the dressing room
[pic]
20191013_175959 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]and this is looking through the bedroom window, back toward the ensuite. there is nobody behind us, so we are having a large window that will be clear glass, plus another glazed section above it. Along with the high ceiling of the dormer, Im hoping its going to help the ensuite feel quiet spacious
[pic]
20191013_175922 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]The roofers have only been coming a infrequently. As we have the tent above, they seem to come to us on wet days only. I can understand why, but its a bit frustrating. However, its not really slowing down progress too much.
Once the 2 carpenters had finished the roof, they turned their attention to insulation. I was hoping that another 2 guys would join them, but 1 of them has hurt his back and isnt working currently so still just the 2 of them unfortunately.
Im no builder, but the geometry of the roof cuts looks really good to my eyes! They are probably touch slow, but no mistakes made and the building inspector told my architect that it looks a good job
Started to run some electrics cables too...
[pic]
20191018_160955 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20191018_160254 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
Once the 2 carpenters had finished the roof, they turned their attention to insulation. I was hoping that another 2 guys would join them, but 1 of them has hurt his back and isnt working currently so still just the 2 of them unfortunately.
Im no builder, but the geometry of the roof cuts looks really good to my eyes! They are probably touch slow, but no mistakes made and the building inspector told my architect that it looks a good job
Started to run some electrics cables too...
[pic]
20191018_160955 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
20191018_160254 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]Edited by covmutley on Friday 25th October 14:42
Edited by covmutley on Friday 25th October 14:44
What I have posted is pretty much caught up to where we are at. Next week should be more insulation and starting to plasterboard it out. So lots of visible progress hopefully!
Plumber and electrician are coming next week to start their work.
I am having a new unvented cylinder and system boiler installed, plus new water main from the stopcock in the road. Pricey, but we will have 3 showers and 2 baths in the house. The system is going in the roof slope storage area, which means the existing combi that fills up a cupboard in the kitchen can go. The extra storage in the kitchen will be a nice little bonus.
In the process of ordering stairs and the cladding for the dormers. The windows were also measured up early this week and should be here in about 2 weeks. Stairs in roughly the same timescale it appears.
Having the felt and batten on has helped no end! If im honest, we were struggling with the lack of a roof- no matter how much we convinced ourselves we werent! Having the roof at least covered now cuts out a lot of wind and draft. Also, the builders have now covered about 75% of the ground floor ceiling with insulation, so the house is feeling a lot warmer. The insulation we used to have was rubbish, so, i think we are more or less back to where we were before we started all this.
Plumber and electrician are coming next week to start their work.
I am having a new unvented cylinder and system boiler installed, plus new water main from the stopcock in the road. Pricey, but we will have 3 showers and 2 baths in the house. The system is going in the roof slope storage area, which means the existing combi that fills up a cupboard in the kitchen can go. The extra storage in the kitchen will be a nice little bonus.
In the process of ordering stairs and the cladding for the dormers. The windows were also measured up early this week and should be here in about 2 weeks. Stairs in roughly the same timescale it appears.
Having the felt and batten on has helped no end! If im honest, we were struggling with the lack of a roof- no matter how much we convinced ourselves we werent! Having the roof at least covered now cuts out a lot of wind and draft. Also, the builders have now covered about 75% of the ground floor ceiling with insulation, so the house is feeling a lot warmer. The insulation we used to have was rubbish, so, i think we are more or less back to where we were before we started all this.
Edited by covmutley on Friday 25th October 15:01
Sargeant Orange said:
What was your initial budget for the finished work? Curious as the previous owners of our bungalow completed a very similar conversion to this.
It's going to transform the place, plan looks great
I was dreading this question a little! Was originally about 50k when we were looking at normal conversion. Final quote was 80k. The real cost is more thanks to all the problems we had at the start. At least 90 now. I'm seriously hoping not too much more! Really hoping! It's going to transform the place, plan looks great
Edited by covmutley on Friday 25th October 20:23
Sorry, I wasnt clear. 50k was when we were originally planning for a conversion of existing roof . But costs have gone up.
You're right though, spec is what can really make the difference on cost. We are adding a rooflight above the stairs to light the dark hallway below. More cost, but like you say, something we do now, or not at all. The reality is I doubt we will have nice wardrobes in our bedroom for another 12 months for example. I havnt got money for carpets or tiling either! Will just have to cash flow as we go.
I took out a 20k 2nd mortgage for part of the cost. my plan is to remortgage once we are finished. By my calcs, we should get to a better LTV rate, such that the 20 k becomes 'free'. I'm just hoping I dont have to sell my car!
You're right though, spec is what can really make the difference on cost. We are adding a rooflight above the stairs to light the dark hallway below. More cost, but like you say, something we do now, or not at all. The reality is I doubt we will have nice wardrobes in our bedroom for another 12 months for example. I havnt got money for carpets or tiling either! Will just have to cash flow as we go.
I took out a 20k 2nd mortgage for part of the cost. my plan is to remortgage once we are finished. By my calcs, we should get to a better LTV rate, such that the 20 k becomes 'free'. I'm just hoping I dont have to sell my car!
Edited by covmutley on Saturday 26th October 08:45
A quick update....
Progress inside has been a bit slow. We lost the builders for a week in total for a couple of reasons. They have been doing the insulation, which seems to be taking ages. Also put the soil pipe in which you can see in the photo. It goes along way and has the necessary fall, but only just. The builders say a slow push is better than water going too fast when it comes to moving solids.
[pic]
20191104_154748 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
Roofers have been putting the fibre cement slates on. Im really happy with how they look. I also cant believe how light they are!
[pic]
20191104_155307 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
We also had a new water connection to the stop cock in the road put in. They moled a new 22m pipe to replace the old 15mm copper one. we have noticeably more water and the toilet can now be flushed and refill with no noticeable impact on the running shower. This has been done in readiness for the unvented cylinder heating system we are putting in.
First fix electrics and pluming now in too.
Progress inside has been a bit slow. We lost the builders for a week in total for a couple of reasons. They have been doing the insulation, which seems to be taking ages. Also put the soil pipe in which you can see in the photo. It goes along way and has the necessary fall, but only just. The builders say a slow push is better than water going too fast when it comes to moving solids.
[pic]
20191104_154748 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]Roofers have been putting the fibre cement slates on. Im really happy with how they look. I also cant believe how light they are!
[pic]
20191104_155307 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]We also had a new water connection to the stop cock in the road put in. They moled a new 22m pipe to replace the old 15mm copper one. we have noticeably more water and the toilet can now be flushed and refill with no noticeable impact on the running shower. This has been done in readiness for the unvented cylinder heating system we are putting in.
First fix electrics and pluming now in too.
And some windows!:
Daughters bedroom window (which is the same as our bedroom window)
[pic]
20191112_081251 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
Dressing room window, which is the middle dormer of the 3 on the front
[pic]
20191112_081237 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
Our ensuite, with the extra piece of glazing in the gable of the dormer.
[pic]
20191112_081120 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
Im really happy with them. They are UPVC with a wood grain finish in chartwell green colour and a 'flush' design to look like wood joinery. Insides are white. The 5 main windows plus with the extra piece of glass for ensuite came to just under £4k fitted. The extra piece of glass represents a disproportionate part of the cost. Obviously the blue stickers will come off!
The builders are putting the floors down as I type, so I think the plan is to start plasterboardng and stud walling this week and next week. That should give some easily visible progress!
Daughters bedroom window (which is the same as our bedroom window)
[pic]
20191112_081251 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]Dressing room window, which is the middle dormer of the 3 on the front
[pic]
20191112_081237 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]Our ensuite, with the extra piece of glazing in the gable of the dormer.
[pic]
20191112_081120 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]Im really happy with them. They are UPVC with a wood grain finish in chartwell green colour and a 'flush' design to look like wood joinery. Insides are white. The 5 main windows plus with the extra piece of glass for ensuite came to just under £4k fitted. The extra piece of glass represents a disproportionate part of the cost. Obviously the blue stickers will come off!
The builders are putting the floors down as I type, so I think the plan is to start plasterboardng and stud walling this week and next week. That should give some easily visible progress!
Time for an update. Floors are all down and it is being plasterboarded. That is taking some time due to all the awkward roof slopes that the dormers create.
Daughter ensuite has been finished. As has the storage space in the roof slope. You can see the new unvented cylinder heating system in there. It isnt connected up yet, but I think it looks a very tidy job.
We have also put a small 40x40 rooflight over where the stairs will go to get some light into the hallway below.
[pic]
20191206_125649 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20191206_125501 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20191206_125513 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20191206_125558 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20191206_125624 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
20191206_125635 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]
Daughter ensuite has been finished. As has the storage space in the roof slope. You can see the new unvented cylinder heating system in there. It isnt connected up yet, but I think it looks a very tidy job.
We have also put a small 40x40 rooflight over where the stairs will go to get some light into the hallway below.
[pic]
20191206_125649 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
20191206_125501 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
20191206_125513 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
20191206_125558 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
20191206_125624 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
20191206_125635 by Chris Cox, on Flickr[/pic]Edited by covmutley on Saturday 7th December 09:39
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