Aggressive terrier

[JohnnyJones]

I have a 5 year old Lakeland / Fell terrier. He is good as gold but with one exception.

He will attack on sight any other male 'entire' dog. He's on the lead if I think we may come across another dog, but the amount of aggression he has when on the lead is embarrassing.

He is stubborn and does not respond to training with treats. Nor does he have a favourite toy. In fact he doesn't play with toys at all.

Telling him off doesn't have any effect either.

This is not a recent problem, he's done it for a couple of years, since a big dog attacked our other terrier which was a pup at the time. Anyway the male terrier attacked the big dog, saved the pup, and has attacked every other dog he's met since.

I live with it but would like to change his behaviour.

Oh, he has his bits.

[Mrs Grumpy]

I am guessing his thing with other dogs is a fear issue so he is getting in the first 'strike'. I say that because 99.9% of the time it is! I think it would be sensible to manage it for now while you work on counter conditioning/de-sensitising him.

This is what I would do:

• Not set him up to fail - ie avoid dogs/areas where he might feel the need to defend himself. This will build his confidence in you as he will learn to trust that you are not going to put him in a scary situation.
• If you do find yourself facing a situation where you think he might fail (real life gets in the way sometimes!), pop him on a lead (if not already) and walk off the other way so he doesn't come face to face with the scary thing. Again this will build his trust in you. If you can't get far enough away, pop him behind your legs/a tree so you are shielding him.
• The above will not allow him to practise the unwanted behaviours with other dogs, reduce his stress and therefore adrenalin levels. He will also NOT learn that kicking off at the other dog is an effective strategy that works!

It can be hard work avoiding areas where you think he may fail. My dog Taffy is an extreme case and was frightened of the whole world. Once he became a little more confident, he started to charge and shout at things he was scared of. The next step for him would have been to progress to bite. For two months I avoided anyone and everything by only walking him where I was as sure as I could be that I would meet no-one else. I popped him in the car and drove to a remote area. If I did see anyone, I had to avoid them by a huge margin (like a whole field). As I say, he is an extreme case, but the two months de-stressed him enough for me to then be able to move forwards with him.

I would practise this with your boy for as long as it takes for you to think he is happier and more confident. It may only take a week or two.

So, moving forward:

• I would take things really slowly so as not to overface him and dent his confidence.
• I would pair the scary thing (another dog) with something he really likes that is of high value. This might be roast chicken or similar that he only gets while out on a walk. This should change his underlying emotional response towards the scary thing from one of fear to one of glee as he gets something he values highly. You will probably have to start off a bit of a distance away from the scary thing so that he isn't too stressed. When the scary thing is in sight, he gets the roast chicken. When the scary thing has gone, the roast chicken stops too. If you are too close to the scary thing, he won't be able to take the treats so this is a good barometer.
• Gradually, over time, you should be able to move nearer the scary thing and still get him to concentrate on the high value food.
• Moving on from there, I would parallel walk with a non-reactive dog ensuring that you are between him and the other dog so you are protecting him. You may need to start a distance apart and get gradually closer. He should still get his high value rewards at this time.
• When you think he is ready to meet the other dogs, I would only let him do so for a couple of seconds so as not to overwhelm him. It should all be a good experience for him, again rewarding him for being able to do so.

Hopefully, over time, he should stop being scared as long as he has good experiences.

A couple of things to remember:

• Stressed dogs can't learn, which is why it is important to try not to set him up to fail.
• Adrenalin levels can remain raised for 48 hours after an 'incident' so if something upset him today, he is less likely to be able to cope with things over the next couple of days. Adrenalin levels can become cumulative too, so continual expose to the scary things is likely to only increase his reactivity.
• Any telling off will only serve to reinforce his already negative view of the scary thing. I know it can be hard, but if you can, try to remain calm and upbeat at all times.

Not having seen him I can't say that the above would work for definite, but it probably will and certainly won't do any harm.

I hope this works for you.




Here's a few helpful links

Canine Aggression – Frequently Asked Questions

Dr Yin YouTube Clip
Podee is aggressive to other dogs due to fear. I first show his aggressive behavior and how I handle him in the emergency situation. Then I go back and do the foundation training that he needs in order to work more safely and effectively around other dogs. Once he's had this training I work him around an unfamiliar dog. He's happier and more focused on me around the other dog. Now he's able to learn that good things happen to him around new dogs. This videos is narrated. It's from the textbook/DVD Low Stress Handling, Restraint and Behavior Modification of Dogs and Cats (www.AskDrYin.com/lowstresshandling)

Videos and Podcasts

There are a range of videos and podcasts on this website, including:

Working with on leash Aggression
Trainer Jean Donaldson demonstrates tools and techniques for safely and effectively handling dog–reactive shelter dogs during behavior modification sessions. Commentary by veterinarian and animal behaviorist, Ian Dunbar describes how use of this technique impacts body language between dogs.

Tips for Handling a Dog-Reactive Dog
Ian Dunbar and Claude help Jean Donaldson work with a leash–reactive shelter dog.

Jean show us the baseline leash–reactive behaviors that certainly may have contributed to this dog being surrendered to the shelter. At the sight of another dog, the dog becomes unmanageable, barking, lunging and pulling so strongly that it’s impossible to hold on to her.

Response Substitution with Fearful Dog
The owner of a bullmastiff comes to Dr. Ciribassi reporting fearful and sometimes aggressive behavior, particularly on walks and when encountering other dogs. Dr. Ciribassi recommends a program of response substitution. As part of this process, he recommends using the Gentle Leader to help provide better management of the dog on leash. In this segment, the owner learns how to fit and put on the Gentle Leader.

[bexVN]

Would you get him neutered Mrs G? I would be thinking possibly not at this time as it could be a fear based response but on the other hand as it is mainly entire males he goes for would neutering reduce that urge?

[Mrs Grumpy]

Well, I would always neuter all dogs anyway - but then I probably have a slightly jaundiced view of un-neutered dogs .

I read something, somewhere about the optimum time for neutering due to potential behavioural issues. I'll see if I can find it... Nope, can't now

I think it basically said if it was after about aged 2 then it maybe wouldn't make a difference - but I am unable to source that so could be talking crap!

[Jasandjules]

Good luck OP. At least you are trying to solve the problem unlike 95% of the little dog owners around here who just let their dogs snarl and growl and lunge and our dogs......

[JohnnyJones]

Hmm.

I already do pretty much all the above and have done for a couple of years.

I have 2 other dogs that are fine with other dogs, they are all walked together.

Treats like chicken don't work at all. It would be easier to make him stand on one leg than take a piece of chicken while out on a walk.

My routine means he only sees an 'entire' male dog maybe once a week at most. And goes ballistic. He's fine with neutered dogs and females.

He's not afraid. It's not fear. Definitely.

[bexVN]

Maybe neuttering should be considered then. You could do a trial run! There is an injection available that suppresses the hormone for a few weeks, this may give you some idea as to whether neutering would work/ help or not before actually commiting to the op which would be non reversible (though personally I would get him done anyway, he is at an age where the health benefits to doing so outweight the risks of not)

[Jasandjules]

If you are not intending to breed from him then neutering is surely a reasonable option anyways.

[JohnnyJones]

I do breed from him, he has fathered about 6 litters. He is from a good line of working terriers and produces good strong litters.

However if I thought it would help I'd have him done. I will find out more about that injection.

[JohnnyJones]

I am going to try and transfer his aggression, which he has been bred to have, from dogs to rats.

I'll let you know how it goes.

[bexVN]

JohnnyJones said:

I am going to try and transfer his aggression, which he has been bred to have, from dogs to rats.

I'll let you know how it goes.

has he ratted before?

[tenex]

I've never owned a working terrier but have met more than a few and their owners.
Characters is usually the polite response. Every expletive known to man whilst working. They pay no attention.
They're very good at what they do and they are just left to do their own thing. The phrase "herding cats" is frequently heard.
Wonderful dogs,absolute killing machines. Good luck with your ratting. He'll love it.
It's refreshing to see a dog used for what it was intended for. I would doubt if you will ever get him to "conform".
If you did, would it not be like Jack Nicholson in "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" ?

Edited by tenex on Tuesday 23 November 20:57

[JohnnyJones]

bexVN said:

JohnnyJones said:

I am going to try and transfer his aggression, which he has been bred to have, from dogs to rats.

I'll let you know how it goes.

has he ratted before?

Yeah, he'll attack pretty much anything that moves except birds. (He knows they can fly off so he pretends not to be bothered).

He has got the odd rat, but now I'm going to actively seek them. Under the feed at a friends pheasant shoot etc...

[JohnnyJones]

tenex said:

I've never owned a working terrier but have met more than a few and their owners.
Characters is usually the polite response. Every expletive known to man whilst working. They pay no attention.
They're very good at what they do and they are just left to do their own thing. The phrase "herding cats" is frequently heard.
Wonderful dogs,absolute killing machines. Good luck with your ratting. He'll love it.
It's refreshing to see a dog used for what it was intended for. I would doubt if you will ever get him to "conform".
If you did, would it not be like Jack Nicholson in "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" ?

Edited by tenex on Tuesday 23 November 20:57

Yeah, that's about right.

This is the fker..

[tenex]

Good, strong, wiry dog with that typical don't even think about it look.

[bexVN]

He's a proper little dog

[JohnnyJones]

He is, thanks.

I guess I'll just carry on with him as he is.

Never a dull moment!

[nick_j007]

JohnnyJones said:

I am going to try and transfer his aggression, which he has been bred to have, from dogs to rats.

I'll let you know how it goes.

That won't make ANY difference re his aggression to some dogs as you state. It could be argued that it will maintain if not exacerbate it.

[nick_j007]

JohnnyJones said:

He is, thanks.

"I guess I'll just carry on with him as he is".

Never a dull moment!

Um hello? To say you'll carry on as you are leaves me confused.

What's he like OFF lead with entire males please? If poor, then I strongly advise the gradual introduction of a muzzle to keep him and other dogs safe.

Mrs. G wrote you such an in depth response and you didn't seem to tip your hat to it either.

Maybe you'd like me to send you my magic wand?

Naturally, if you still intend to breed from him you won't want to know re castration, but a dog like this MAY benefit and on balance I would do that.

I would say that we have a dog here that is pretty much 'as is' and may not respond well to behavioural modification as we know it as per Mrs.G's post. You are probably in the realms of 'damage limitation' and management...hence the muzzle introduction and use. Quite a few owners object to this suggestion also, but on balance when used at an appropriate time it can be a life saver.

As a quick reassurance I work full time as a dog behaviourist and most of my work is dog to dog aggression. Thanks. Feel free to call if you need a quick chat.

[JohnnyJones]

nick_j007 said:

JohnnyJones said:

He is, thanks.

"I guess I'll just carry on with him as he is".

Never a dull moment!

Um hello? To say you'll carry on as you are leaves me confused.

What's he like OFF lead with entire males please? If poor, then I strongly advise the gradual introduction of a muzzle to keep him and other dogs safe.

Mrs. G wrote you such an in depth response and you didn't seem to tip your hat to it either.

Maybe you'd like me to send you my magic wand?

Naturally, if you still intend to breed from him you won't want to know re castration, but a dog like this MAY benefit and on balance I would do that.

I would say that we have a dog here that is pretty much 'as is' and may not respond well to behavioural modification as we know it as per Mrs.G's post. You are probably in the realms of 'damage limitation' and management...hence the muzzle introduction and use. Quite a few owners object to this suggestion also, but on balance when used at an appropriate time it can be a life saver.

As a quick reassurance I work full time as a dog behaviourist and most of my work is dog to dog aggression. Thanks. Feel free to call if you need a quick chat.

Mrs G's reply was read and replied to.

It was based on his aggression being based on fear. It is not, as I said. He is afraid of nothing. Negating almost all of what Mrs G posted. I notice she hasn't posted back as it's not as cut and dried as she thought.

Off the lead he attacks all entire males without exception. Or warning. And I mean properly attacks.

I am fortunate to live out in the sticks where he rarely sees another dog.