Horses - talk to me!

[Caractacus]

Sam_68 said:

Horses like company (people often get a donkey to keep their riding horse company), so if you got a loaner cob, there'd be nothing to stop you keeping him on as company for a heavy horse, if you wanted to go the whole hog, since cost and land are obviously not an issue to you.

Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 3rd September 19:47

For sure.

I'd never dream of keeping one horse, all by itself. The Mrs would also love a donkey, anyway, so one was always on the cards.

Land is cheap in Wales - anywhere from £1500 to £4500 per acre.

Cheers,

C.

[swiftwill]

try 'Horse Gossip' my fiance is always on it as she owns horses and it is a very close example of the PH website.

[0aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

I love PH... where else can you have that horse/MR2 combo?!

[Caractacus]

swiftwill said:

try 'Horse Gossip' my fiance is always on it as she owns horses and it is a very close example of the PH website.

Excellent, thanks very much.

[mr2mk1chick]

Caractacus said:

The only reason horses have been replaced by machinery is progress/tech. Horses/donkeys/mules are still used in many parts of the world, still...

I'm in no rush, but I see little point in getting a Cob, only to move on to what I really want and what will be best for the jobs at hand, too. A loaner may be somewhere to start, but I'm looking for something over 17HH that can haul oak/ash/alder, etc, uphill I am meeting a horse logger in two weeks so will pick his brain.

Time is not an issue, either. I have a flexible working regime...I'm the boss, and only employee, kind of.

Atually, snigging (moving timber with horses) horses are often not best being too large, as they need a lower centre of gravity to help utilise thier strength, and the smaller size helps with their agility around the woodland. the 17hh ones were usually for draught horses or those working in the fields with carts etc. the best ones for snigging are the smaller stockier cobs, or perhaps something more unusual like the percheron etc 15hh ish. Also no one should expect horses to remove timber by pulling it up hill - the method ususally is to drag it down a hill. Mechanised winches are usually used to pull uphill where heavy unimogs etc can't get in, or where you want to limit the ground disturbance.
I used fell ponies to snig wood in the lake district many years ago, they were great but large cobs would manage more weight.
It depends on how large you are as to whether a cob will be good for you to ride, but a good large cob will cope with weight - its just whether you have long legs.
Snigging horses are very specialised, and i doubt (not being too presumptuous) that you can train one yourself - you are better to hire in the experts. if you do want to have your own - go for a ride and drive cob that has already had experience in a harness for pulling, but they need to be very sensible types, as a great load of logs crashing away behind them can be a lot more scary than a nice flatcart or carriage!
seriously consider a loan cob, but get the experts in for snigging. they usually want to keep thier horses close to the job, so you could let them keep the horse with you in your fields and you could ask if they wil let you ride them etc perhaps to get a taster

[Caractacus]

mr2mk1chick said:

Atually, snigging (moving timber with horses) horses are often not best being too large, as they need a lower centre of gravity to help utilise thier strength, and the smaller size helps with their agility around the woodland. the 17hh ones were usually for draught horses or those working in the fields with carts etc. the best ones for snigging are the smaller stockier cobs, or perhaps something more unusual like the percheron etc 15hh ish. Also no one should expect horses to remove timber by pulling it up hill - the method ususally is to drag it down a hill. Mechanised winches are usually used to pull uphill where heavy unimogs etc can't get in, or where you want to limit the ground disturbance.
I used fell ponies to snig wood in the lake district many years ago, they were great but large cobs would manage more weight.
It depends on how large you are as to whether a cob will be good for you to ride, but a good large cob will cope with weight - its just whether you have long legs.
Snigging horses are very specialised, and i doubt (not being too presumptuous) that you can train one yourself - you are better to hire in the experts. if you do want to have your own - go for a ride and drive cob that has already had experience in a harness for pulling, but they need to be very sensible types, as a great load of logs crashing away behind them can be a lot more scary than a nice flatcart or carriage!
seriously consider a loan cob, but get the experts in for snigging. they usually want to keep thier horses close to the job, so you could let them keep the horse with you in your fields and you could ask if they wil let you ride them etc perhaps to get a taster

More good advice, thanks Jo.

Ideally I wish to do all the work myself with the horses and am prepared to spend whatever is required to reach my end goal.

The reason for looking at the larger horses is because (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm wanting to ride them and I'm not exactly small (6'3" and 95kg with 'Inspector Gadget' legs...OK, not quite that bad, LOL). I don't want to look like a jockey with my knees up round my ears and I fear on a smaller horse I'd need to! Pulling a cart is also on the cards.

As for the inclines, a couple are steep, but short (circa 30M) and the others are minor. I lkie the idea of not getting into the woods with machinery due to the low impact.

Cheers,

C.

[Willy Nilly]

Horses will bleed you dry. They will take up every last moment of spare time and spare money. It would be cheaper to go outside, light a fire and through tenners onto it.

The vast majority of horse owners have much large animal enthusiasm and pretty much no large animal skill.

The horse community is largely made up of women. usually middle aged, single women that are a bit bossy, have a slightly fluffy chin, big arse and loud voice. Where horses are concerned all rational goes out of the window this leaves a huge vacuum for colossal amounts of bullst to flow in.

Things you need to know about horses:

They cannot possibly have a water trough in their stable, it is poisonous or something and anyway they will break it. Water troughs can be made pig proof and bull proof, but not horse proof. So put a 3 gallon bucket of water in the corner. they won't kick it over, oh no.

When buying a horse, please ensure that you make it as difficult as possible to have hay delivered. People delivering hay love the fact that you have an end-less supply of money to spend of ste like hoof polish, rugs and other potions and lotions but like to argue the toss over a few pence on a bale of hay. Having to man (women will NEVER help unload it) handle hay into that poxy little shed is just the icing on the cake.

Electric fences are just for decoration. Normally with, say cows, it is very important to have actual electricity flowing through the wires on an electric fence. With horses it is different. You won't actually need to clear the weeds from around the fence line to stop the juice shorting out and leaving the tape in the floor will have no effect on whether or not the fencer battery is flat. It is very important to effect a look of complete amazement when the horses then get out.

Vets. Your horse will need the vet at least once a week. Vets have expensive lifestyles to keep so will need to keep on treating your horse until the final payment on the new A4 has been made. He will then shoot it.

When using the road, please ensure your horse sts all over it. This help pot hole to heal over. Also be sure to have as little control as possible over your horse. When farmers harvest their fields, they are only too pleased to have you run all over the stubble leaving fking great hoof marks all over it. It gives them an excuse to use their great big tractors to recify the mess you have made.

At every available opportunity, tell people you have a horse. Tell them everything there is to know about. All though they will have a look of complete boredom on their faces, they are really fascinated to to learn what "your boy/girl" can do.

[Caractacus]

Willy Nilly said:

Horses will bleed you dry.

Nope, not me. Sorry to disapoint.

FWIW, you are rather bitter & twisted, chauvinistic & assumptive. Or quite funny. Perhaps a mixture? Not much of the funny, perhaps?
Hmmm...

[Willy Nilly]

Caractacus said:

Willy Nilly said:

Horses will bleed you dry.

Nope, not me. Sorry to disapoint.

FWIW, you are rather bitter & twisted, chauvinistic & assumptive. Or quite funny. Perhaps a mixture? Not much of the funny, perhaps?
Hmmm...

No matter how much money you have with horses, the spending never ends

I encounter horses on a daily basis. Most people in my line of work share my opinion

[minky monkey]

Good luck to you, if you really want to do it, then boo to the neigh-sayers....

• Sorry*

My sister's owned horses ever since my dad bought her one at 11yo. She's got three now, and coming up to her 40th birthday.

They are hard work, it's not just a case of jumping on them when the weathers nice, you have to tend to them in the cold, ste windy weather when it's the sleet's coming in sideways..

But it is worthwhile, definitely. If you have the proper dedication and backing to look after them.

Have you any actual experience of riding? The reason I ask is that years ago my sister's then boyfriend had to urge to buy a horse, with little hands on experience. She forewarned him to only go on supervised rides at the beginning, but he knew best.

Jumped on Khan, and unfortunately while on a bridlepath, the horse was stung by a wasp and shot off with him on the back of it. He came off and landed against a concrete signpost, and broke his back. He was lucky not the be paralised, but did spend months in a cast.

I'd say go for, but really get a bit of proper experience, or guidance.

[Caractacus]

Willy Nilly said:

Most people in my line of work share my opinion

Which is...?

[Willy Nilly]

Caractacus said:

Willy Nilly said:

Most people in my line of work share my opinion

Which is...?

Agriculture, horsey people are generally laughed at. Some won't even do business with them.

If you have some trees and a seemingly limitless pile of cash, how about one on these?

http://www.deere.co.uk/wps/dcom/en_GB/industry/for...

[Caractacus]

Willy Nilly said:

Agriculture, horsey people are generally laughed at. Some won't even do business with them.

If you have some trees and a seemingly limitless pile of cash, how about one on these?

http://www.deere.co.uk/wps/dcom/en_GB/industry/for...

Jeeze, that narrows it down...

Care to be more specific?

Where ever you do your 'agriculture' and who ever you do it with/for, there seems to be many folk with chips on their shoulders.

I would imagine you don't work in Wales. The 'horsey folk' to which you refer don't seem to inhabit these parts.

[Willy Nilly]

Caractacus said:

Jeeze, that narrows it down...

Care to be more specific?

Where ever you do your 'agriculture' and who ever you do it with/for, there seems to be many folk with chips on their shoulders.

I would imagine you don't work in Wales. The 'horsey folk' to which you refer don't seem to inhabit these parts.

I have worked all over. Horsey people are the laughing stock of the livestock sector.

Once upon a time a did some relief work over christmas for a leading dairy producer. I'm no stockman, but unless you have worked with commercial livestock you are unlikely to understand the level of sheer bullst that horsey people come out with.

There is a livery yard at work with 20 or so horses. There are enough people working on there, with out the owners, to look after a couple of hundred high yielding dairy cows.

If you want a horse, then good luck to you. But it will take up more time than you ever imagine. It will eat up more money than you ever imagine. Your paddocks will get churned up and full of ragwort. The fences will fall apart.

[Caractacus]

Willy Nilly said:

I have worked all over. Horsey people are the laughing stock of the livestock sector.

Once upon a time a did some relief work over christmas for a leading dairy producer. I'm no stockman, but unless you have worked with commercial livestock you are unlikely to understand the level of sheer bullst that horsey people come out with.

There is a livery yard at work with 20 or so horses. There are enough people working on there, with out the owners, to look after a couple of hundred high yielding dairy cows.

If you want a horse, then good luck to you. But it will take up more time than you ever imagine. It will eat up more money than you ever imagine. Your paddocks will get churned up and full of ragwort. The fences will fall apart.

As I thought...

Bitter, twisted, assumptive, etc, etc.

I also didn't realise horses st ragwort seeds.

[mr2mk1chick]

Willy Nilly said:

There is a livery yard at work with 20 or so horses. There are enough people working on there, with out the owners, to look after a couple of hundred high yielding dairy cows.

If you want a horse, then good luck to you. But it will take up more time than you ever imagine. It will eat up more money than you ever imagine. Your paddocks will get churned up and full of ragwort. The fences will fall apart.

you do seem to be full of the bullst you worked in

yes, fewer people could look after horses like they do with cows, but thats not what livery owners pay for or want. if they did you would have a huge field and a large barn. many owners want to pamper thier horses, and why not, so they get very clean bedding (not like cows) good grooming (they dont stink of st), and get ridden etc. the feeding is often more complex that just fattening a beef cow or producing milk where it can be computer controlled by the cows chip etc, as we want to feed for condition and perfomance without making a horse too skitty.
Any decent horse place will remove any trace of ragwort as its poisonous, its the neighbouring cow fields that frustratingly spread it back
yep - horses eat up money. its not usually a buisness, its a recreational pleasure thing. maybe you need some pleasure in youe life as you seem a bit het-up LOL
You can spend as much or as little as you like i find, same as cars. you insure in the same way for problems. you can buy cheap or expensive, and let them live outside or pampered in a stable like some peoples garage 'jewelry' that never gets used and only polished LOL.
the weekly costs can be similar to cars. in fact i sold my horse and now the cars cost me more. trackdays are more costly than eventing or shows!

[Willy Nilly]

Caractacus said:

As I thought...

Bitter, twisted, assumptive, etc, etc.

I also didn't realise horses st ragwort seeds.

Most horse paddocks have varying degrees of ragwort infestation, compared to very few cattle or sheep fields. Horse paddock are usually over grazed, churned up and badly to completely unmanaged. This leaves bare patches for the ragwort seeds to germinate in because the grass isn't in any fit state to compete with and shade out the ragwort.

[Sam_68]

mr2mk1chick said:

you do seem to be full of the bullst you worked in

See, I could have told you that mentioning the big arse was a bad idea, Willy.

As it happens, we seem to have a different sub-species where I live. The age group sounds about right, and bossy with a braying voice kind of goes with the territory (fair play... you need both to effectively manage an animal that weighs the best part of a tonne and has an IQ only slightly higher than that of a sheep).

But round here they're all married (couldn't afford to live here otherwise), neurotic anorexics.

I'm speculating, of course, but I think this is probably because they live in constant fear of their husbands dumping them for a younger, slimmer model and thereby cutting off the funding necessary for the vets bills, farriers, food, tack, horse box (or Range Rover/Shogun to tow the horse trailer trailer, if their other half is a cheapskate like me), etc., etc.

Your comments on water buckets, hay and electric fences all seem horribly familiar, though.

I think you're being a wee bit pessimistic with weekly vets visits - I'd have put it more like monthly, on average, but you've forgotten the 6-weekly visits from the farriers (the payments and fuel costs on their nice new Land Rover Defenders make those on the Vet's A4 pale into insignificance).

One observation on running costs and commitment is that - unlike a track car - you can't wheel them into the garage and forget about them if you can't be arsed with them for a couple of months.

As Minky Monkey observed, they'll need your money and/or your attention several times a day, 365 days of the year, come rain, sleet or snow.

They need grooming, feeding, working, fly masks putting on, fly masks taking off, fly masks finding when the bd things have rubbed them off against a bush in a hidden corner of the field; stones picking out of their hooves (though this is admittedly a fine excuse to buy yourself a swiss army knife without also having to take up molesting boy scouts), clipping so they don't get too warm, coats putting on so they don't get too cold, bringing in to the stable when the weather gets too foul or to prevent them eating too much grass and getting colic (ahh... now colic; look that one up on Wikipedia and you'll start to understand why Willy mentioned the weekly vets visits... a horse is basically just a very complicated machine for generating new stomach ailments), taking out from the stable when it gets too warm for them to be in, or when they need to graze, mucking out, picking the st up from the paddock... the list goes on and on.

You'll be stuck with the thing for the next quarter of a century (especially with something like a Clydesdale, which isn't much use for selling on to little Fiona to ride at the Pony Club gymkanas, although as I said already, you literally can't give away even 'sensible' horses at the moment) and you won't be able to leave it unattended for even a day of that...

I have to say, given the OP's obvious lack of knowledge (less than mine, and I take great pride in being clueless about all things equine in the face of a completely horse-obsessed local community), I find it disturbing that the 'experts' aren't being more forceful in counselling caution and pragmatism.

Sorry, Caractacus; I know you probably posted this topic in the hope that everyone would massage your ego by telling you what a wonderful idea it was, and what a clever chap you are for thinking of such a sustainable way of managing your land, but really, you need to think very carefully about what you're letting yourself in for... for the animal's sake.

Edited by Sam_68 on Sunday 4th September 23:31

[charliedaker]

I keep my horses at a livery yard because i couldn't be bothered with the full time job that is keeping a horse at home as well as having no land

As has been said there is alot to consider with care and upkeep but if you are that way inclined then its not terribly complicated.

If you have no experience of horses then its worth trying to learn as much as possible and there would be plenty of books to get you going as well as joining clubs etc etc.

And its nice that you are taking an interest in heavy breeds as they are becoming a much rarer sight these days.

Good luck

[Caractacus]

Sam_68 said:

Sorry, Caractacus; I know you probably posted this topic in the hope that everyone would massage your ego by telling you what a wonderful idea it was, and what a clever chap you are for thinking of such a sustainable way of managing your land, but really, you need to think very carefully about what you're letting yourself in for... for the animal's sake.

Edited by Sam_68 on Sunday 4th September 23:31

Not at all, if you read the first post correctly. You know less than you think.

We already have 100's of healthy animals that we manage ourselves, organically (that should please willyless and his combine harvester...). We will more than manage two horses - one heavy horse and a friend for said horse.

I've, thanks to Jo, and others, been given some top advice by folk that know what they are talking about, via suitable horse forums.

You and Willyless really don't know much at all. Thanks for the chuckles though.

You and Willyless should shack up together.