Discussion
Oh my, loving the second picture. Guessing the one on the right is the younger dog?
Generally speaking what can make a huge difference is the amount of time put in from the beginning with any young dog. Time and patience in = results out.
Like you, my first wire-haired Vizsla was a marvellous dog and markedly better in working tests and beats than my current boy Max would be....but my first dog had my undivided attention despite being my first dog ever. She swept the board at 9 months in our first test and I was hooked from that day in. I have little experience with GWP's so am interested to read all the comments re hard to train.
Leave the cars at home. I think we should all have a dog meet one Sunday morning
Nick
Generally speaking what can make a huge difference is the amount of time put in from the beginning with any young dog. Time and patience in = results out.
Like you, my first wire-haired Vizsla was a marvellous dog and markedly better in working tests and beats than my current boy Max would be....but my first dog had my undivided attention despite being my first dog ever. She swept the board at 9 months in our first test and I was hooked from that day in. I have little experience with GWP's so am interested to read all the comments re hard to train.
Leave the cars at home. I think we should all have a dog meet one Sunday morning
Nick
I think thats fair Nick, and also not giving them too much too early. Spaniels are a nightmare for that - you'll never have a truely steady dog if you let them have too much freedom and work early on. I made that mistake with my first and whilst he's much better now he's still much more independent than the ones that didn't get any work till 12/18 months where he was out at 7/8 months because of the way the shooting seasons fell!
TimCrighton said:
I think thats fair Nick, and also not giving them too much too early. Spaniels are a nightmare for that - you'll never have a truely steady dog if you let them have too much freedom and work early on. I made that mistake with my first and whilst he's much better now he's still much more independent than the ones that didn't get any work till 12/18 months where he was out at 7/8 months because of the way the shooting seasons fell!
Yes, get the foundations in first! Good manners in and out of the home, GOOD basics such as the sit, down, stay/wait, recall and heel. The hold & give would be useful from the beginning also. Then open it up as the dog develops. My Max is slow to mature (read he's still an idiot at 2yrs!) but when he gets it right, oh boy, he's great!Lack of steadiness is the biggest downfall I suspect for most in the field and local park...not that mine are perfect I should add. So it leads me to say that patience is a huge bonus in the first year from the owner/handler perspective.
Anyway. Are you still flatcoat at this point OP?
Max back in the summer.
Edited by nick_j007 on Tuesday 1st November 10:32
nick_j007 said:
Oh my, loving the second picture. Guessing the one on the right is the younger dog?
Generally speaking what can make a huge difference is the amount of time put in from the beginning with any young dog. Time and patience in = results out.
Like you, my first wire-haired Vizsla was a marvellous dog and markedly better in working tests and beats than my current boy Max would be....but my first dog had my undivided attention despite being my first dog ever. She swept the board at 9 months in our first test and I was hooked from that day in. I have little experience with GWP's so am interested to read all the comments re hard to train.
Leave the cars at home. I think we should all have a dog meet one Sunday morning
Nick
Yeah its a good picture and the skinny one on the right is the younger one, Pippa. She's now about 15 months old and is an andasal gsp with a birkenwald sire, Xanto who is the brother of german top stud dog.Generally speaking what can make a huge difference is the amount of time put in from the beginning with any young dog. Time and patience in = results out.
Like you, my first wire-haired Vizsla was a marvellous dog and markedly better in working tests and beats than my current boy Max would be....but my first dog had my undivided attention despite being my first dog ever. She swept the board at 9 months in our first test and I was hooked from that day in. I have little experience with GWP's so am interested to read all the comments re hard to train.
Leave the cars at home. I think we should all have a dog meet one Sunday morning
Nick
You're so right, recall etc are stunning as a result of putting the ground work in when very young and lots of praise.
It's very difficult to correct her though as nothing at all bothers her, the older one holly is the exact opposite and shakes like a leaf at a tone of voice change, the young one just wags her tail and looks at you as if to say "am I bover'd".
GWP's arent hard to train, they are just very hard work and you need saint like qualities to stop you strangling them.
I hear springers can be just as bad!
I always remember an old boy on our shoot commenting when I got my first cocker that: "you'll learn boy, the man that invented the electric collar owned cockers"!!!
Thankfully never had to resort to that, but its true they are hard as nails and don't give a ****! Particularly a cocker dog, but that said they are BRILLIANT little dogs and if you keep on top of them they are fabulous dogs to work.
Thankfully never had to resort to that, but its true they are hard as nails and don't give a ****! Particularly a cocker dog, but that said they are BRILLIANT little dogs and if you keep on top of them they are fabulous dogs to work.
OP - a well bred and properly trained GWP will do everything you list and much more. They really are great dogs and just require a little more work than a more conventional breed ala spaniel/labra'snore etc. The continental gundogs are often misunderstood by many people who are used to the more conventional breeds. Rory Major will tell you everything you need to know about training them.
It would be well worth getting over to the versatilehpr.com forum as there is loads of good info and people with working HPR's especially, GWP's, korthals Griffons wire vizlas etc. Maxine (kimmax kennels) and sharon pinkerton (bareve kennels) both post there and are very well repsected in this country and germany.
It would be well worth getting over to the versatilehpr.com forum as there is loads of good info and people with working HPR's especially, GWP's, korthals Griffons wire vizlas etc. Maxine (kimmax kennels) and sharon pinkerton (bareve kennels) both post there and are very well repsected in this country and germany.
boy.Love your Labrasnore!
Clearly you have more experience in continentals.
Most of the continentals I have come across have been Italian "woodcockers" due to the introduction of pet passports. Some Belgian, French, Dutch and the occasional Scandinavian.
Great pointers but scared of gorse and even juniper! However my biggest worry is the gin-trap jaws.
You obviously have a good un. Well done.
tenex said:
boy.Love your Labrasnore!
Clearly you have more experience in continentals.
Most of the continentals I have come across have been Italian "woodcockers" due to the introduction of pet passports. Some Belgian, French, Dutch and the occasional Scandinavian.
Great pointers but scared of gorse and even juniper! However my biggest worry is the gin-trap jaws.
You obviously have a good un. Well done.
I think the main thing about getting a HPR is to ensure you are aware of its traits before starting training it, they arent spaniels or lab's. Secondly they mature later than labs etc. Its also worth mentioning that in germany you cant register any pups unless the parents have passed the approriate working test. This is actually very difficult and resebmles a field trial, however this means that german dogs are more suitably qualified for working than the mishmash bred british dogs where some of the quality has been lost along the way. thus purchasers of pups need to tred carefuly and do alot of reaserch inot the lines of the dogs they'll be getting.
I have attached a link for info, this relates to GWP's or rather the true Deutsch Drahtaar - http://www.deutschdrahthaar.com/breed and what is required in order to meet the german criteria. From this you'll see that no true DD should be scared of water, have hard mouth, rough sharp terrain etc etc.
boy said: I have attached a link for info, this relates to GWP's or rather the true Deutsch Drahtaar - http://www.deutschdrahthaar.com/breed and what is required in order to meet the german criteria. From this you'll see that no true DD should be scared of water, have hard mouth, rough sharp terrain etc etc.
I personally feel that to 'create' a dog that is free from such undesirable traits is down to not just line selection but most importantly steady, patient, well balanced training. It's the handlers skills and cumulative prior experience that makes the greatest impact of any dog of any breed. In my view 
So OP. Still looking at flat coats? I would love one
There are a few HPR's that might suit.
Some fantastic labs. Black / Yellow.
Goldies will make a great family dog too by the way. Though I would hate the grooming!
Plenty of nice Spaniels to choose from.
Some others on the periphery such as Brittany Spaniels (HPR family) NSDTR, curly coated retrievers (big, strong, dense coat)
I dare you finally to consider a standard poodle...I would/will one day.
Nick
nick_j007 said:
I personally feel that to 'create' a dog that is free from such undesirable traits is down to not just line selection but most importantly steady, patient, well balanced training. It's the handlers skills and cumulative prior experience that makes the greatest impact of any dog of any breed. In my view
Nick
Nick I agree entirely with what you say and the handler/trainer has a massive impact on the dog, and almost any dog is trainable with enough time such that pedigree doesnt really matter too much. However, I think the germans take a good approach and is sort of, well, typically german really, as its well organised and takes things a stage further than most people who buy a gundog. we've all looked at the pedigrees of dogs and scanned them for previous Ftch's in the pedigree etc, however, over the years this can become diluted to some extent and the germans approach attempts to ensure this doesnt happen. Just imagine if every spaniel had to pass a working test before being able to register the pups with the kennel club, people who were interested in having registered puppies would have the pick of the crop as this would prevent Ftch sire mating with joe blogs dam who hasnt worked a day in her life and is a fire spaniel. However this would never stop people who dont give a toss about breeding and are after a cheap dog or making a few bob. Nick
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