Dog breeder questions?!
Discussion
OP. I don't know what the norm is but it is impossible to tell how a pup is going to turn out at 4 weeks. It's no easier at 8. OK you get an idea of markings/colour but it is basically a "pig in a poke".
I don't show mine so I don't care. I'm getting another pup at the beginning of December. I haven't seen it. I have never met the breeders and I don't know the pedigree.However it should be ok, having seen some of their dogs out and about.
I agree with you. If you are paying top dollar you should be able to pick "your dog". But really at the end of the day it will make little difference. YOU make your own dog.
I also agree with rovermorris999. Kennel Club and "royally buggered breeds" go hand in glove.
I don't show mine so I don't care. I'm getting another pup at the beginning of December. I haven't seen it. I have never met the breeders and I don't know the pedigree.However it should be ok, having seen some of their dogs out and about.
I agree with you. If you are paying top dollar you should be able to pick "your dog". But really at the end of the day it will make little difference. YOU make your own dog.
I also agree with rovermorris999. Kennel Club and "royally buggered breeds" go hand in glove.
tenex said:
OP. I don't know what the norm is but it is impossible to tell how a pup is going to turn out at 4 weeks. It's no easier at 8. OK you get an idea of markings/colour but it is basically a "pig in a poke".
I don't show mine so I don't care. I'm getting another pup at the beginning of December. I haven't seen it. I have never met the breeders and I don't know the pedigree.However it should be ok, having seen some of their dogs out and about.
I agree with you. If you are paying top dollar you should be able to pick "your dog". But really at the end of the day it will make little difference. YOU make your own dog.
I also agree with rovermorris999. Kennel Club and "royally buggered breeds" go hand in glove.
If you want a random dog, with random personality characteristics, random height/weight and random inherited health problems, all well and good.I don't show mine so I don't care. I'm getting another pup at the beginning of December. I haven't seen it. I have never met the breeders and I don't know the pedigree.However it should be ok, having seen some of their dogs out and about.
I agree with you. If you are paying top dollar you should be able to pick "your dog". But really at the end of the day it will make little difference. YOU make your own dog.
I also agree with rovermorris999. Kennel Club and "royally buggered breeds" go hand in glove.
A good pedigree breeder will fully health check the parents, Elbow/Hip dysplasia checks etc - whichever are relevant to the breed. Makes me laugh how people think a 'mongrel' will be bulletproof - yes they will usually be longer lived but are still prone to all the usual problems.
Quick update on this - went to see the breeders at the w/end and all went very well.
I was very impressed with the set-up, were really nice people and lived on a farm like plot with about 5 acres, stables converted to kennels etc.. I got to meet the mother of the litter(who was kept in the house with the pups) and also the, brothers, uncles, grandad etc. These dogs were all very freindly, you could see they were from a quality bloodline and in great shape. The breeders had some other rescue dogs as well, Mastiff & St Bernard.
They let some of the dogs out into their field/garden so we could have a play, I think this was for them to see how we got on with their LARGE dogs jumping up and generally having the crack. All went well, althought we both got covered in crap..lol!
We were there for about 2 hours and they were more than happy to answer any of our questions. They also questioned us about why we wanted Bullmastiff, what about holidays, even where in our house would they be staying. They are also happy for us to come up again around the 6 or 7 week mark so we can pick a pup if we wanted, hopefuly by that time they should be able to tell which one they want for showing. They also showed us the contract which was pretty straight forward and taylored toward the welfare of the dog.
SO - the deal was done, deposit paid and ready to collect mid December, although, may go up again around the 6-7 week mark to choose exact pup.
Thanks for all the feedback, will obviously post some pics when the little fella lands. Although, he won't be that "little" for that long!!
I was very impressed with the set-up, were really nice people and lived on a farm like plot with about 5 acres, stables converted to kennels etc.. I got to meet the mother of the litter(who was kept in the house with the pups) and also the, brothers, uncles, grandad etc. These dogs were all very freindly, you could see they were from a quality bloodline and in great shape. The breeders had some other rescue dogs as well, Mastiff & St Bernard.
They let some of the dogs out into their field/garden so we could have a play, I think this was for them to see how we got on with their LARGE dogs jumping up and generally having the crack. All went well, althought we both got covered in crap..lol!
We were there for about 2 hours and they were more than happy to answer any of our questions. They also questioned us about why we wanted Bullmastiff, what about holidays, even where in our house would they be staying. They are also happy for us to come up again around the 6 or 7 week mark so we can pick a pup if we wanted, hopefuly by that time they should be able to tell which one they want for showing. They also showed us the contract which was pretty straight forward and taylored toward the welfare of the dog.
SO - the deal was done, deposit paid and ready to collect mid December, although, may go up again around the 6-7 week mark to choose exact pup.
Thanks for all the feedback, will obviously post some pics when the little fella lands. Although, he won't be that "little" for that long!!
In any litter there is the best dog and the runt and everything inbetween. If the breeder wants the best dog then fair enough it is their perogative. If it was me I would ask them for second choice to make sure you don't get the runt. I have to say that at £1000 for a pup with a life expectancy of 10-12 years you must love the breed especially if its only going to be a pet/guard dog.
Just found this thread and thought I would contribute from a breeder perspective:
A reputable breeder is breeding to continuously try to 'perfect' and maintain the their breed line's characteristics - either to win prizes at breed shows, or do agility or obedience, or whatever else motivates them to try and get the 'perfect' example of their breed. It is critical to this that they try to keep the 'best' puppy in the litter and you cannot make that decision at 4 weeks of age... They're only just starting to be weaned at that age and many of their physical characteristics are not yet developed (absolutely vital for someone who wants to show the dogs). For example, in my breed (Tervuren), you cannot see if the ears are going to be erect or not until at least 6 weeks: I don't care about that myself, as I do agility, but you couldn't show a Belgian Shepherd with a floppy ear, so you need to be sure of that before you sell them.
I know many breeders who match the character of the puppy to the owner's environment and dog-owning background (I do this a little myself). I personally wouldn't allow a first-time dog owner to have one of the livelier puppies, unless I thought they were really enthusiastic, had done their homework and prepared themselves and their environment - for a complete change in lifestyle - and planned to train it properly (ideally to 'work' it in some way, with my breed). A PHer had one of my last litter on exactly this basis and my judgement has proved well placed, as he seems as proud as anything of 'Summer' and appears to have trained her very well.
No offence to the OP, but if I discovered that a potential puppy owner of mine was moaning about this on a public forum, they wouldn't be having one of my puppies - period! Speak to the breeder about it and maybe get a second opinion from someone else (maybe ask the Kennel Club for details of the breed club/society and ask someone from there, but don't post it on here!
ETA - apologies to the OP - just re-read the thread and it wasn't you that was doing all the moaning!
Having said that, I wouldn't commit to selling one of my puppies to someone I hadn't met face to face first: Why not jump in the car and go and see the puppies at their current age, meet the Mum (and Dad, if possible) and the breeder and generally show some interest in the breed-line? You never know, you might not like the parents' character and decide against one of their puppies? Or you might just hit it off with the breeder and end up with the second best puppy and a dog's lifetime of support and assistance (and a 24/7 helpdesk if you have any problems with the pup)
A reputable breeder is breeding to continuously try to 'perfect' and maintain the their breed line's characteristics - either to win prizes at breed shows, or do agility or obedience, or whatever else motivates them to try and get the 'perfect' example of their breed. It is critical to this that they try to keep the 'best' puppy in the litter and you cannot make that decision at 4 weeks of age... They're only just starting to be weaned at that age and many of their physical characteristics are not yet developed (absolutely vital for someone who wants to show the dogs). For example, in my breed (Tervuren), you cannot see if the ears are going to be erect or not until at least 6 weeks: I don't care about that myself, as I do agility, but you couldn't show a Belgian Shepherd with a floppy ear, so you need to be sure of that before you sell them.
I know many breeders who match the character of the puppy to the owner's environment and dog-owning background (I do this a little myself). I personally wouldn't allow a first-time dog owner to have one of the livelier puppies, unless I thought they were really enthusiastic, had done their homework and prepared themselves and their environment - for a complete change in lifestyle - and planned to train it properly (ideally to 'work' it in some way, with my breed). A PHer had one of my last litter on exactly this basis and my judgement has proved well placed, as he seems as proud as anything of 'Summer' and appears to have trained her very well.
No offence to the OP, but if I discovered that a potential puppy owner of mine was moaning about this on a public forum, they wouldn't be having one of my puppies - period! Speak to the breeder about it and maybe get a second opinion from someone else (maybe ask the Kennel Club for details of the breed club/society and ask someone from there, but don't post it on here!
ETA - apologies to the OP - just re-read the thread and it wasn't you that was doing all the moaning!
Having said that, I wouldn't commit to selling one of my puppies to someone I hadn't met face to face first: Why not jump in the car and go and see the puppies at their current age, meet the Mum (and Dad, if possible) and the breeder and generally show some interest in the breed-line? You never know, you might not like the parents' character and decide against one of their puppies? Or you might just hit it off with the breeder and end up with the second best puppy and a dog's lifetime of support and assistance (and a 24/7 helpdesk if you have any problems with the pup)
Edited by kVA on Monday 21st November 10:24
kVA said:
Ha ha - you obviously look for the same things as I do... Confidence, confidence, confidence...
Aye, OH wasn't too sure to begin with, as our previous dog was <whisper> the runt </whisper> and Ella is fiesty... but, she's a beauty. A real fighter, and absolutely brimming with character. And so loving! Everyone loves her - when she goes to the vets, everyone comes out from the back to see her 
So brave and fearless (unless you're a moped).
kVA said:
ETA - apologies to the OP - just re-read the thread and it wasn't you that was doing all the moaning!
Having said that, I wouldn't commit to selling one of my puppies to someone I hadn't met face to face first: Why not jump in the car and go and see the puppies at their current age, meet the Mum (and Dad, if possible) and the breeder and generally show some interest in the breed-line? You never know, you might not like the parents' character and decide against one of their puppies? Or you might just hit it off with the breeder and end up with the second best puppy and a dog's lifetime of support and assistance (and a 24/7 helpdesk if you have any problems with the pup)
Edited by kVA on Monday 21st November 10:24
Don't know if you read my earlier comment on meeting the breeder/dogs also (3rd post down on this page), all went well though.
Daggerpie said:
No worries, some interesting feedback and I totally agree with you.
Don't know if you read my earlier comment on meeting the breeder/dogs also (3rd post down on this page), all went well though.
Oops...Don't know if you read my earlier comment on meeting the breeder/dogs also (3rd post down on this page), all went well though.
That'll teach me to read the WHOLE thread before posting, won't it!
Sounds like a good breeder to me - well done
I always stick any newbies in a field with 5 or 6 fully grown Tervurens: If they survive, they are obviously not going to be eaten by them... If they actually seem to enjoy it (and the dogs do too) they may be allowed to have a puppy!
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