I am now a Beekeeper!!
Discussion
Mr Pointy said:
Great fun.
from the numbers of bees on your suit I'm guessing that you couldn't go in unprotected like JPthebeeman & just manhandle them into the box & not get severely stung?
I was suited and booted for a hive inspection at the time but that swarm put a stop to that. Even though swarms are usually fairly docile that was 30,000 bees protecting their Queen and one sting could start a frenzy. That beeman guy is totally nuts.from the numbers of bees on your suit I'm guessing that you couldn't go in unprotected like JPthebeeman & just manhandle them into the box & not get severely stung?
Bill said:
No, very few other eggs.
If you got eggs you got a chance. Those could be emergency queen cells as opposed to supercedure queen cells. Either way if that frame is indicative of the number of bees in the colony then there is way to much space in the hive for them to maintain brood temperature.Bill said:
Ah, we did see a smallish drone, is that what you mean by drone layer?
There are 4 busy frames of bees, one of which has some more queen cells on and a couple of the ones we destroyed had quite well developed grubs on.
We've also started feeding them again.
A Queen (not mated properly) can be a drone layer. But usually if a colony becomes Queenless then after around 30 days (I think) a worker bee/s will start laying eggs. These eggs can only be drones (male). There are 4 busy frames of bees, one of which has some more queen cells on and a couple of the ones we destroyed had quite well developed grubs on.
We've also started feeding them again.
Now that’s a problem because the colony will treat her as their Queen. By introducing a new Queen most of the time she will be rejected/killed. Most beekeepers will then shake all the bees out away from the apiary and start from fresh - as Jambo has said some of the foragers may return to the ‘new hive’ but hopefully not the drone layer.
I’m actually having to deal with this on what was my best hive that has decided to swarm itself into oblivion!!
Carrying on from above here’s the vid I took last week of my Queenless drone laying hive
https://youtu.be/jZdItggVzcY
https://youtu.be/jZdItggVzcY
Edited by dickymint on Wednesday 23 June 10:21
Bill said:
Ok... Looks like the new queen has settled in well and there is plenty of laying, grubs and some capped brood. Found her pottering about happily.
https://youtu.be/mV4HgiWuKKQ
We've also had a nuc arrive from our friendly bee bloke, and transferred it over to a newly built hive last week. That's absolutely thriving!
Also found the queen today...
Great work there Team Bill. Looks like a Buckfast Queen you bought in and your other maybe a Carniolian.https://youtu.be/mV4HgiWuKKQ
We've also had a nuc arrive from our friendly bee bloke, and transferred it over to a newly built hive last week. That's absolutely thriving!
Also found the queen today...
When you say "newly built hive" is it a bought one or hand made? I ask as there's a lot of burr comb under the bottom of the frame.
LooneyTunes said:
We’ve had bees for a few years but have always struggled getting swarms to stay. Tend to get a couple of swarms a year in our garden (usually not ours!) where there are a couple of trees the bees really like.
Catching them is pretty straightforward (we tend to cut the branch and shake in, or shake in directly) but used to have relatively limited success in keeping them. Doing a bit of reading, the swarm’s scouts usually look for enough space and won’t take a home that is too small.
Consensus seems to be that Nuc boxes fail the test (that’s consistent with what we found). A regular brood box would be fine but the bees apparently try to measure the space so if the box is filled with foundationed frames it can seem small and cause them to leave.
As a result, with a late swarm we’ve tried a different approach: middle frames set up to be foundationless with a couple of frames of foundation on the outsides. Once it was clear that this particular swam had decided to stay, we gave them another frame of brood and then eventually (after a month or so) swapped the last empty frames for one with some foundation. Seems to have worked so far, and is the approach I’ll be trying with any we catch next year.
Having tried it with this one, foundationless is proving to be really interesting and the comb hasn’t proved harder to work with than our other hives. Simply made up some DN4 frames but with a strip of wood at the top where the foundation would normally fix (gives the bees something to work from and hopefully reduces the chances of them working out across the hive).
A bit late doing our final extract this year, probably a job for next week.
That's a very interesting observation and well worth looking into further. It makes perfect sense if you look at what bees would do without our intervention ie. in nature, hollow trees or (or roof spaces) would be empty! I guess what you're saying is our perception of "space" differs from the bees. Obviously the size of the swarm would dictate whether they stay in a nuc for a while or get transferred straight into a full sized hive (assuming a spare is available). Catching them is pretty straightforward (we tend to cut the branch and shake in, or shake in directly) but used to have relatively limited success in keeping them. Doing a bit of reading, the swarm’s scouts usually look for enough space and won’t take a home that is too small.
Consensus seems to be that Nuc boxes fail the test (that’s consistent with what we found). A regular brood box would be fine but the bees apparently try to measure the space so if the box is filled with foundationed frames it can seem small and cause them to leave.
As a result, with a late swarm we’ve tried a different approach: middle frames set up to be foundationless with a couple of frames of foundation on the outsides. Once it was clear that this particular swam had decided to stay, we gave them another frame of brood and then eventually (after a month or so) swapped the last empty frames for one with some foundation. Seems to have worked so far, and is the approach I’ll be trying with any we catch next year.
Having tried it with this one, foundationless is proving to be really interesting and the comb hasn’t proved harder to work with than our other hives. Simply made up some DN4 frames but with a strip of wood at the top where the foundation would normally fix (gives the bees something to work from and hopefully reduces the chances of them working out across the hive).
A bit late doing our final extract this year, probably a job for next week.
My last swarm capture about 2 months ago was in a "bait hive" in a tree with just some crumbled up comb and a dab of lemongrass oil. Small swarm so probably a cast) they were definitely not my bees just by their size and colouring. I had no nuc or spare hive available at the time as all was in use. I decided to just leave them there as an experiment to observe what the'yd do and what I could learn from them - long story short they seemed to be doing well, increased in size quite quickly. They even propolised the entrace down to virtually 2 bees in diameter!! Sting in the tail...........they buggered off about 10 days ago
I'll post a thread with a few vids of what they got up to when i get chance.blueST said:
Looking for some advise from experienced keepers. This year we volunteered to host a couple of hives for a local beekeeper. They are about 40m from our house and we never need to go really close to them. However over the year my wife and I have been randomly “attacked” a few times each when out in the garden by seemingly enraged individual bees. They just start dive bombing incessantly, I presume with the intention to sting (my neighbour claims to have been stung), the only solution to leave the area for while. They’re are a bit of a pest to be honest and spoiling our enjoyment of being outdoors, and I’m concerned our lad will get stung when he’s playing.
I’ve spoken to the beekeeper about it, who said he has noticed that one of the hives seems particularly aggressive and is going re-queen it for next year to try and calm the bees down a bit.
I wanted to ask, is it normal to get pestered by the bees like this when there are hives nearby? I’m thinking at the minute I’ll give the hives another 12 months and if it carries on I’ll have ask for them to be removed.
That'll be "warning bumps" from guard bees, they'll only sting as a last resort. How close to the hives were you getting these bumps? The advice (which I'm sure the beekeeper told you?) is never to walk in front of the entrance as this will set the guards out. I'd suggest something like a 4 foot net fence in front of the hives so their flight path is straight up as opposed to straight at you. I’ve spoken to the beekeeper about it, who said he has noticed that one of the hives seems particularly aggressive and is going re-queen it for next year to try and calm the bees down a bit.
I wanted to ask, is it normal to get pestered by the bees like this when there are hives nearby? I’m thinking at the minute I’ll give the hives another 12 months and if it carries on I’ll have ask for them to be removed.
Now that's for a 'normal' happy hive. There are times when a hive will get quite aggressive at the hive or even a fair distance away from it - such as imminent bad weather (they're sensitive to barometric pressure). If they're queenless or rearing a new queen they will also be more aggressive. Your beekeeper is probably thinking along the lines of changing the genetics of the hive by re-queening. My question to him is why not do it now as opposed to waiting for next year? IF he intends to re-queen by killing the queen and letting them rear a new one then it's too late in the season now (doubtful if there's time for a virgin queen to mate) but there is time to kill the queen, wait a few days and introduce a new mated queen but if he hasn't got one it'll cost him to buy one. It'll also cost him time to do it as for all I know he has multiple apiaries to look after.
How many hives and what sort of setting are they?
Good news with the over wintering success guys. My three have also made it through. Yes three now thanks to buying a nearly new Flowhive2 (sames as my first) that came with a full colony - all for 500 quid which is an outright bargain. Last year as you may remember was full of early swarms that knocked back honey production but I did manage about 25 jars and still left the bees with full stores for winter. I've relied on their scales to monitor their weight and have hardly fed them at all and what i did feed them was only out of paranoia
I've been inside a few times to check on stores and also to fit roof insulation (I forgot to do it in the autumn). It was just as well as the temperature and humidity sensors were telling me all was not well, in fact they were showing that two hives were very close to the "dew point" which is not good!!
To do this I had to remove the syrup feeder and queen excluder then fit a crownboard and shim for fondant then insulation on top. Many people thought I was mad to do any sort of manipulation at that time of year and to leave them alone. But my view differ and you have to do what's best at the time. It was a lovely sunny day and bees were flying. I'd practised this in my head many times before I did it and had everything needed to hand (bit like a pit stop) and even with some stupid errors (I was a bag of nerves as you can see) managed to get it done in under three minutes. Think you'll agree they looked super healthy.........
I'll post the before and after graphs later that I think backs up the value of top insulation.
I've been inside a few times to check on stores and also to fit roof insulation (I forgot to do it in the autumn). It was just as well as the temperature and humidity sensors were telling me all was not well, in fact they were showing that two hives were very close to the "dew point" which is not good!!
To do this I had to remove the syrup feeder and queen excluder then fit a crownboard and shim for fondant then insulation on top. Many people thought I was mad to do any sort of manipulation at that time of year and to leave them alone. But my view differ and you have to do what's best at the time. It was a lovely sunny day and bees were flying. I'd practised this in my head many times before I did it and had everything needed to hand (bit like a pit stop) and even with some stupid errors (I was a bag of nerves as you can see) managed to get it done in under three minutes. Think you'll agree they looked super healthy.........
I'll post the before and after graphs later that I think backs up the value of top insulation.
LooneyTunes said:
Would be really interested in the before/after temp charts. We don't insulate our hives at home (nice sheltered locations) but did lose a couple in a colder location and I'm thinking of putting some more somewhere a bit more exposed next year (but probably in polyhives to make it easier for them).
They do look healthy, but feeding them isn't always paranoia. Ours each take down several kgs of fondant over winter (buy the large bakers blocks and split them down) which seems to get them through nicely.
At 25 jars off two hives, I think you must hold the record for the most expensive honey!
We've historically had about 100 jars per hive but a new radial extractor bought for our final extract did much less damage to the comb, which will mean less work for the bees, so I'm hoping that we'll get more this year.
The tongue in cheek "paranoia" is down to last years very early swarming which with a sprinkling of hindsight was possibly down to the early spring weather in conjunction with 'overfeeding' leading to lack of space for the queens to lay. The two Flowhives are on single brood and I'm determined to keep them that way (10 frame Langstroth so far more bee capacity then National hives). They went into winter this year weighing around 36kg and now weigh around 25kg so should be ok.....i'll find out this week probably when I inspect.They do look healthy, but feeding them isn't always paranoia. Ours each take down several kgs of fondant over winter (buy the large bakers blocks and split them down) which seems to get them through nicely.
At 25 jars off two hives, I think you must hold the record for the most expensive honey!
We've historically had about 100 jars per hive but a new radial extractor bought for our final extract did much less damage to the comb, which will mean less work for the bees, so I'm hoping that we'll get more this year.My plan this year? Well i do not want more than three hives in my garden and not interested in making splits to sell (quite happy to donate any to my local association as and well though) so i'm going to use Demeree method (regardless of swarm cells or not) to prevent them and in theory maintains honey production whilst still on single brood but that's for a separate post.
Here's the data as regards the insulated roof - all three hives followed the same pattern..............
Edit: the top numbers in the graph are today's status not January's
Edited by dickymint on Tuesday 12th April 18:58
LooneyTunes said:
That is indeed a really big jump with the insulation. How does it compare to their summer temperature?
When it comes to the number of hives, we’re expecting to end this year with 7-10 which should be enough. The problem is that it’s easy to just add another as the extra time isn’t really that significant for just one more… the bit that used to take the time was extract and jarring it all up but going from 3 frame manual to 20 frame electric extractor makes that much faster!
Same hive back in the summer.......When it comes to the number of hives, we’re expecting to end this year with 7-10 which should be enough. The problem is that it’s easy to just add another as the extra time isn’t really that significant for just one more… the bit that used to take the time was extract and jarring it all up but going from 3 frame manual to 20 frame electric extractor makes that much faster!
Insulation would have been off by then to allow other hive manipulations. Besides that in the active months they are more than capable of regulating heat and temperature to suit. Open brood and honey evaporation before capping means they have to do this, whereas in the winter they're in torpor and at greater risk.
As regards extraction - Wifey bought me a windy uppy one (didn't want it, bit like the WBC hive I didn't want, but a lovely gesture) Tried it for the first time and made a real mess of four frames. Speed really does matter
My hopes are on the Flowhives so just turn the key and out it plops. 
Nearly got there last year but took a gamble, left it too late and they got clogged up with crystallised Ivy 
LooneyTunes said:
Interesting to see how the insulation takes them much closer to summer temps. I’d expect probably be similar with the poly hives (we have a couple but not in regular use at the moment) so quite encouraging if we put any somewhere more exposed.
Never tried the flow hives, not against them but we do occasionally have OSR planted locally which (like the ivy) I could imagine would,present issues if you didn’t get it out early.
Yes OSR is a big concern and can prevent the Flow Frames from opening with the key. Luckily for me there's none within the range of my hives but it has a very short flowering season anyway. Meanwhile these girls are piling on weight and their super will be going on this weekend. I also need to find and mark their queen in readiness for swarm prevention using Demeree method............Never tried the flow hives, not against them but we do occasionally have OSR planted locally which (like the ivy) I could imagine would,present issues if you didn’t get it out early.
The four green dots at the top of the graph indicate all is well inside based on Audio data - fingers crossed my first full inspection will confirm this!
Edited by dickymint on Friday 15th April 08:36
Finally did a full inspection of my strongest Flowhive on Friday to determine health,strength and queen status. Found the queen on the second frame (gutted that I'd forgotten to bring a marker pen and queen cage). Hive was rammed and found two charged but uncapped queen cells so I squished them knowing it would buy me a few days.
On Monday I was geared up and ready to do a Demaree Method swarm prevention. After eight agonising frame searches I finally found her! Without isolating the queen it would have been game over for a Demaree. So game on! Put queen in a new brood box on a single frame of mostly capped brood and nine new frames (no drawn out comb). Queen excluder on then Flow super above that. Then another full inspection of the brood frames, shaking all the bees off to destroy any other queen cells they had made and put on top of the super and closed up the hive.
Need to check again 5 to 6 days time and squish the next lot of emergency queen cells they're likely to make then recombine back to a single brood.
Video to follow
On Monday I was geared up and ready to do a Demaree Method swarm prevention. After eight agonising frame searches I finally found her! Without isolating the queen it would have been game over for a Demaree. So game on! Put queen in a new brood box on a single frame of mostly capped brood and nine new frames (no drawn out comb). Queen excluder on then Flow super above that. Then another full inspection of the brood frames, shaking all the bees off to destroy any other queen cells they had made and put on top of the super and closed up the hive.
Need to check again 5 to 6 days time and squish the next lot of emergency queen cells they're likely to make then recombine back to a single brood.
Video to follow
Jambo85 said:
dickymint said:
Finally did a full inspection of my strongest Flowhive on Friday to determine health,strength and queen status. Found the queen on the second frame (gutted that I'd forgotten to bring a marker pen and queen cage). Hive was rammed and found two charged but uncapped queen cells so I squished them knowing it would buy me a few days.
On Monday I was geared up and ready to do a Demaree Method swarm prevention. After eight agonising frame searches I finally found her! Without isolating the queen it would have been game over for a Demaree. So game on! Put queen in a new brood box on a single frame of mostly capped brood and nine new frames (no drawn out comb). Queen excluder on then Flow super above that. Then another full inspection of the brood frames, shaking all the bees off to destroy any other queen cells they had made and put on top of the super and closed up the hive.
Need to check again 5 to 6 days time and squish the next lot of emergency queen cells they're likely to make then recombine back to a single brood.
Video to follow
Hi DickyOn Monday I was geared up and ready to do a Demaree Method swarm prevention. After eight agonising frame searches I finally found her! Without isolating the queen it would have been game over for a Demaree. So game on! Put queen in a new brood box on a single frame of mostly capped brood and nine new frames (no drawn out comb). Queen excluder on then Flow super above that. Then another full inspection of the brood frames, shaking all the bees off to destroy any other queen cells they had made and put on top of the super and closed up the hive.
Need to check again 5 to 6 days time and squish the next lot of emergency queen cells they're likely to make then recombine back to a single brood.
Video to follow
Sounds good, you’re a few weeks ahead of me (I hope!). Why do you want to recombine back to a single brood? I’d leave that box on the top to keep some of the young bees up top and leave all the space down below for the queen to lay up the full box, otherwise you’ll be back in swarm mode in no time.
Thing is, for the sake of my neighbours, I don't want more than the 3 hives i've already got in the garden and not interested in selling splits. I daresay I'll end up with a captured swarm or two but I can give those away to my local association for brownie points.
Here's the video of my endeavours warts and all....................
Edited by dickymint on Thursday 21st April 07:12
Some good news on the efficacy of the sensors and software I use in my hives in particular the audio sensor...............
Yellow warning alert lights showing and the status says "swarm in 21 days"
This is the hive that I did the Demaree manipulation to last week so it's expected that the queenless top brood box should be flat out making emergency queens. Proof enough to me as to the value of hive monitoring data.
Yellow warning alert lights showing and the status says "swarm in 21 days"
This is the hive that I did the Demaree manipulation to last week so it's expected that the queenless top brood box should be flat out making emergency queens. Proof enough to me as to the value of hive monitoring data.
Edited by dickymint on Friday 22 April 09:45
Jambo85 said:
Nimby said:
There seems to be a lot more OSR around this spring. Something to do with the shortage of sunflower oil from Russia and Ukraine?
Most of it is autumn sown so I think unlikely, the price was already high for it last year, not sure of exact reasons.https://www.fwi.co.uk/arable/uk-research-begins-to...
Which is good news for us Flowhive users
Edit: there is now no OSR within my bees flight range but I just drove past a field (about 5 miles away from my apiary) that had what looked like a corner of old OSR growing wild and the flowers are already dyeing off.
Edited by dickymint on Friday 22 April 13:40
Nimby said:
dickymint said:
There has been a sharp decline in OSR planting due to "cabbage stem flea beetle" .......
https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/markets-and-trends/...LooneyTunes said:
dickymint said:
Demaree has failed!! They're up a tree as I type 
Update: no longer in tree.......last seen flying over house and heading for town
Eek. Catching them when they’re heading out is tricky. We had one swarm land in a tree about 4ft off the ground. Perfect. By the time we got suited up and back with a spare box they were 20ft+ up. Update: no longer in tree.......last seen flying over house and heading for town
Edited by dickymint on Sunday 24th April 18:30
If it’s any consolation, I doubt you’re alone this year. Colonies are just growing so fast at the moment and we’re seeing quite a few scouts checking out a bait hive we put out a few days ago.
It’s still early though so a good chance your remaining ones will recover and still leave a surplus of honey.
I'd just finished doing a full inspection on my other Flowhive and was chuffed not to find any queen cells in a very busy hive and put their super own. Turned my back for a ciggy and can of cider and it all kicked off.
Until I check the hive, probably tomorrow, my only guess is there was an emerged virgin queen on the same frame as the original queen in the lower brood box. Quite intriguing really.
Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff