First tank..

[Comacchio]

Another pH crash (Not as drastic, and could be down to the bogwood going in (which has now turned my water yellow )). Wonder whats causing these!

pH: 6.4
Amm: 0-0.25 ppm
Nit: 0 ppm
NitrAte: 40ppm

Hoping to start seeing less pH drops and more ammonia and nitrite disappearing faster.

[Hysteria1983]

The bog wood is likely to be the issue with the ph.

Have you considered putting it in the dishwasher? google it, I'm not mad!

[Comacchio]

The bogwood went in after the first and 2nd pH crash, so it wasnt the primary cause. I've dosed up with bicarb to bring it nearer 7 again.

[M@verick]

Comacchio said:

The bogwood went in after the first and 2nd pH crash, so it wasnt the primary cause. I've dosed up with bicarb to bring it nearer 7 again.

Bogwood is a pain in the arse. I really dont think much looks as good or as natural in the tank but it really does need ages soaking to avoid it turning the water yellow/brown. You will need to either keep on with the water changes or get yourself some carbon or a polyfilter and run this for a while.

With regard to the pH, it does seem as if you are having to make a lot of chemical alterations to buffer this tank up and down. I wouldnt want to be adding bi carb or buffering agents at this stage to keep a tank stable, you have no bioload - not even plants, so you should not need to be doing this. What is the pH of your tap water ?, also what is the temp stable at ?, have there been any large fluctuations in temp ? (especially during the hot weather recently ?). If I was you I would stop trying to even out the water and let the nitrogen cycle complete (if it hasnt already) pH will not affect nitrosomas bacter within reason, once the nitrogen cycle is complete take your readings again, and let the tank run for a few days, then do some water changes and see where that leaves you - will it get close to stable naturally ?.

Your goal should be a stable environment which does not need that much manual intervention to keep it so. If you have to do this much maintenance to keep the pH correct on a normal basis with fish in the tank you will quickly 1) go insane, and 2) lose the fish.


I am almost inclined to say ditch the water and start again with the filter maturation using the old prawn method.

Keep the updates coming !. Good luck.

R.

[Comacchio]

Well pH seems to have stabilised again (Keeping an eye on nitrates though!).

12 hour (was actually 13 hours but anyways) test:

pH: 7.2
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: slowly rose to off the scale (As in it didnt immediately turn purple at the bottom, it went through each colour)
Nitrate: Not tested.

24 hour:

pH: 7.2
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 40-80ppm

Seems to be getting there again!

[Comacchio]

M@verick said:

Bogwood is a pain in the arse. I really dont think much looks as good or as natural in the tank but it really does need ages soaking to avoid it turning the water yellow/brown. You will need to either keep on with the water changes or get yourself some carbon or a polyfilter and run this for a while.

With regard to the pH, it does seem as if you are having to make a lot of chemical alterations to buffer this tank up and down. I wouldnt want to be adding bi carb or buffering agents at this stage to keep a tank stable, you have no bioload - not even plants, so you should not need to be doing this. What is the pH of your tap water ?, also what is the temp stable at ?, have there been any large fluctuations in temp ? (especially during the hot weather recently ?). If I was you I would stop trying to even out the water and let the nitrogen cycle complete (if it hasnt already) pH will not affect nitrosomas bacter within reason, once the nitrogen cycle is complete take your readings again, and let the tank run for a few days, then do some water changes and see where that leaves you - will it get close to stable naturally ?.

Your goal should be a stable environment which does not need that much manual intervention to keep it so. If you have to do this much maintenance to keep the pH correct on a normal basis with fish in the tank you will quickly 1) go insane, and 2) lose the fish.


I am almost inclined to say ditch the water and start again with the filter maturation using the old prawn method.

Keep the updates coming !. Good luck.

R.

I soaked it in a barrel outside for nearing five weeks. Unfortunately that water would have been at 10 degrees or so, whereas tank is at 30.

Tap water pH is roughly 6.9-7.4. Temp of tank is 30 degrees (will be turned down to 24-25 when I get fish). I live in Scotland - what is this hot weather thing you speak of?

[Hysteria1983]

Comacchio said:

I soaked it in a barrel outside for nearing five weeks. Unfortunately that water would have been at 10 degrees or so, whereas tank is at 30.

Tap water pH is roughly 6.9-7.4. Temp of tank is 30 degrees (will be turned down to 24-25 when I get fish). I live in Scotland - what is this hot weather thing you speak of?

It's stopes cool again here today, but here in the midlands we have been averaging about 28 degrees for the last few days!

[Comacchio]

Getting there...

12 (13, im changing the dosing time to make it a 12 hour) hour test:

pH: 7 (Dosed bicarb up to 7.6 for now, will let it fall naturally soon)
Ammonia: 0 ppm
NitrIte: 0.25ppm (WOOHOO getting there!)
NitrAte: untested

24 hour test:

pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0 ppm
NitrIte: 0 ppm
NitrAte: 80ppm

Closing in on qualifying week I hope. Going to do a partial water change soon to dilute the nitrates before they crash my pH again!

[Comacchio]

Last few days have been identical:

12 hour:
ph: 7.5
Amm: 0
Nit: 0.5
Nitra: NT

24:
pH: 7.5
Amm: 0
Nit: 0.5
Nitra: NT

I'm getting fish next Sunday ( 16th) ).

Wont be a full stocking, and I'll also be getting plants. Plan on doing a 100% water change next Friday, dosing with ammonia on the friday and sat, fish in on the Sunday. Probably going to get: Cardinals, harlequins, cories, cherry shrimp and a bristlenose plec to start with.

Afterwards I'll add guppies, dwarf gouramis, keyhole cichlids, glass cats and then some Otos to finish off my stocking.

Cant wait.

[Hysteria1983]

Comacchio said:

Last few days have been identical:

12 hour:
ph: 7.5
Amm: 0
Nit: 0.5
Nitra: NT

24:
pH: 7.5
Amm: 0
Nit: 0.5
Nitra: NT

I'm getting fish next Sunday ( 16th) ).

Wont be a full stocking, and I'll also be getting plants. Plan on doing a 100% water change next Friday, dosing with ammonia on the friday and sat, fish in on the Sunday. Probably going to get: Cardinals, harlequins, cories, cherry shrimp and a bristlenose plec to start with.

Afterwards I'll add guppies, dwarf gouramis, keyhole cichlids, glass cats and then some Otos to finish off my stocking.

Cant wait.

Just a word of warning, I wouldn't put the cardinals in just yet. They like a tank that has matured for at least 6 months. They are not a very strong fish, and are effected quite easily by changes in tank conditions. They are also very susceptible to diseases, so it's always a good idea to quarantine new fish (this is good practice anyway) when keeping cardinals, as unlike other fish, they will just die

Also, whybthe 100% water change? If there is NT in the water, then you shouldn't need to change anywhere near that much.

Just out of interest, have you tested your tap water? The NO3 might be high in there naturally.

[Comacchio]

Ive been well informed that water changes wont affect bacteria, so I want as much of the nitrate gone as possible before fish.

Ill bear that in mind with the cardinals thanks!

[Hysteria1983]

Comacchio said:

Ive been well informed that water changes wont affect bacteria, so I want as much of the nitrate gone as possible before fish.

Ill bear that in mind with the cardinals thanks!

Like I said, have you tested your tap water? Sometimes the nitrite can be present and high in tap water. It is in mine.

[Comacchio]

Yep I have - 5 ppm. Levels of 160 ppm are not acceptable so the major water change is needed before fish sunday.

Considering getting a pair of Jewel Cichlids instead of Keyholes, but not sure!

[tenohfive]

Comacchio said:

Yep I have - 5 ppm. Levels of 160 ppm are not acceptable so the major water change is needed before fish sunday.

Considering getting a pair of Jewel Cichlids instead of Keyholes, but not sure!

I'd stick with Keyholes personally, much milder in nature and less risk of something going wrong. Alternatively you could consider a Herotilapia multispinosa (Rainbow Cichlid.)
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Her...

I've not kept one in a community set up before but I gather they do fine. I have got one in my CA cichlid set up and despite the fact that he's the least colourful (that's all relative - the others are stunning and he's still more colourful than the link above) he's definitely my favourite because of his demeanour - before the more aggressive occupants were added he'd be constantly at the front of the tank trying to see what's going on. Quite puppy like. I still see plenty of him now and watching him chase off the female Nicaraguan cichlid (a notoriously aggressive fish) has me in stitches.

[therealpigdog]

Comacchio said:

Probably going to get: Cardinals, harlequins, cories, cherry shrimp and a bristlenose plec to start with.

Afterwards I'll add guppies, dwarf gouramis, keyhole cichlids, glass cats and then some Otos to finish off my stocking.

I'd hold off on the cherry shrimp for a while. Seeing as it is a new tank, and you are planning on adding a fair few fish in a short period of time, you may find that you need to medicate them. Most medication is harmful to shrimp so you'll either have to hunt for something that has no trace of metals in it, or wait until the tank has been flushed through several times (along the lines of six months of regular changes) before adding the shrimp.

Plus, if you can wait a month or two, I should be in a position to send you some gratis (unfortunately just done a cull last week).

You'll need plenty of hiding places for them, and don't expect to see much of them as they will be constantly hiding from the fish. I keep most of mine in a tank on their own with a bristlenose - even the addition of a fighter or neons makes them a bit reclusive and seriously affects numbers if you want to breed them (i.e. all the babies will be eaten).

[Comacchio]

tenohfive said:

I'd stick with Keyholes personally, much milder in nature and less risk of something going wrong. Alternatively you could consider a Herotilapia multispinosa (Rainbow Cichlid.)
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Her...

I've not kept one in a community set up before but I gather they do fine. I have got one in my CA cichlid set up and despite the fact that he's the least colourful (that's all relative - the others are stunning and he's still more colourful than the link above) he's definitely my favourite because of his demeanour - before the more aggressive occupants were added he'd be constantly at the front of the tank trying to see what's going on. Quite puppy like. I still see plenty of him now and watching him chase off the female Nicaraguan cichlid (a notoriously aggressive fish) has me in stitches.

Thanks for that! I actually researched the Jewel after posting - looks like a nasty bugger! I'll take a look at the Rainbows, they look nice! Could I keep Rainbows and Keyholes (Might not get guppys so have a gap to fill)

therealpigdog said:

I'd hold off on the cherry shrimp for a while. Seeing as it is a new tank, and you are planning on adding a fair few fish in a short period of time, you may find that you need to medicate them. Most medication is harmful to shrimp so you'll either have to hunt for something that has no trace of metals in it, or wait until the tank has been flushed through several times (along the lines of six months of regular changes) before adding the shrimp.

Plus, if you can wait a month or two, I should be in a position to send you some gratis (unfortunately just done a cull last week).

You'll need plenty of hiding places for them, and don't expect to see much of them as they will be constantly hiding from the fish. I keep most of mine in a tank on their own with a bristlenose - even the addition of a fighter or neons makes them a bit reclusive and seriously affects numbers if you want to breed them (i.e. all the babies will be eaten).

Oh, thanks for that I'll take your advice and leave them for now! And I'll also take you up on that kind offer in the future! That would be pretty brilliant


And finally...

I've got a filter media question.. When I set my filter up I was misinformed that I needed to use the fluval U4 foam on the outside, then (the misleading part) carbon/poly inner layer and then bionoodles then more carbon/poly then finally more foam. My understanding is that I should really have just used double the amount of foam.

The issue now is that the bacteria are probably living in my carbon sponge.. Can I replace 1 of the carbon/poly sponges this week with foam and then the other next week? I dont want to disturb the bacteria so soon after gaining them!

[therealpigdog]

You can just take the filter media out and leave it in the tank - so long as there is a flow of water over it doesn't make much difference (from the bacteria's point of view) whether the media is inside or outside the filter. If you're going to change, then may as well have all of it in the tank at the same time.

[tenohfive]

At 200L I reckon you'd get away with a Keyhole and a Rainbow, yes.

[Comacchio]

Brilliant thanks.

Have a pair of keyholes at one end defending fry and a pair of rainbows at the other.. (hopefully!)

Sunday can't come soon enough. Had this tank set up with nothing but water and decor for bloody 8 weeks!

[Comacchio]

So Today I went shopping! Came home with the following:

2kg of coral rock (To raise my tap water (ph 5!!) up a bit towards bacteria friendly 6 AAAANDDDDDDD

2 Keyhole Cichlids,
6 Panda Cory,
10 Harlequin Rasbora,
8 Neon Tetra,
1 Bristlenose Pleco,
1 Albino Bristlenose Pleco

Currently in their bags getting acclimitised by dropping water in every so often! Pics soon