What dog thread: Labrador, retriever or something else?
Discussion
Chris71 said:
I think we're basically set on a Labrador, a retriever or a cross based on either/both of those.
We are now actively looking too, although prepared to wait (something didn't feel quite right with the fox red litter I mentioned before, so we didn't take that any further).
A couple of questions:
Where would you look? So far I get the impression that the best bet is to approach local breeders and ask if they know of any pups rather than waiting for litters to be advertised.
Lab experts - can you explain hip scores to me? My understanding is the lower and the more evenly balanced the better? Looks like the current median is 9, so you really want 4.5/4.5 or less? How big a risk is it if one parent is hip scored and the other isn't? At what point would you turn down an otherwise healthy pup?
I suppose the latter has to factor in the price. I realise buying a cheap dog can be a false economy, but I am struggling to come to terms with the prices currently being charged for Labrador pups. I would want to see top marks in everything to contemplate spending twice what an average pup went for six months ago. Conversely, if it was a genuine loving home and the parents were healthy but not KC-registered, hip scored etc. I might still consider it for the right money.
Assuming we do go down the fully rated route, are there any other health tests to pay close attention to? I presume most are straightforward pass/fail screenings rather than scores that need to be interpreted?
As an aside, the vast majority of guide dogs in UK are now first cross Lab/ GR as they enjoy a longer working life apparently. We are now actively looking too, although prepared to wait (something didn't feel quite right with the fox red litter I mentioned before, so we didn't take that any further).
A couple of questions:
Where would you look? So far I get the impression that the best bet is to approach local breeders and ask if they know of any pups rather than waiting for litters to be advertised.
Lab experts - can you explain hip scores to me? My understanding is the lower and the more evenly balanced the better? Looks like the current median is 9, so you really want 4.5/4.5 or less? How big a risk is it if one parent is hip scored and the other isn't? At what point would you turn down an otherwise healthy pup?
I suppose the latter has to factor in the price. I realise buying a cheap dog can be a false economy, but I am struggling to come to terms with the prices currently being charged for Labrador pups. I would want to see top marks in everything to contemplate spending twice what an average pup went for six months ago. Conversely, if it was a genuine loving home and the parents were healthy but not KC-registered, hip scored etc. I might still consider it for the right money.
Assuming we do go down the fully rated route, are there any other health tests to pay close attention to? I presume most are straightforward pass/fail screenings rather than scores that need to be interpreted?
Hip scores - yes lower and equal , and I think decent breeders would not use unscored dogs as Kennel Club require test results for registration of progeny.
Even if you don't agree with Kennel Club google ' kennel club find a puppy' and enter the breed . This will show if any recent litters near you . On the right hand side click Breed Health for health tests that are mandatory or recommended . There are other useful tabs there too, inc club contacts.
Be prepared to be cross examined - most breeders do have the interests of the dog before their wallet , and be prepared to travel
Ask vets as suggested , and owners where they got their dog from . It's best to find litters before advertised, and beware of Pets4Homes . Real prices are not that bad if you speak to , and get to know breeders. Contact the breed club secretary - they often hear about planned litters . You may need to wait for a litter to be born but this gives time to be satisfied the breeder is bona fide.
Never, ever, ever mention ,even as a joke, crossing them with poodles as this is very quick way to be judged as an unsuitable purchaser. I don't necessarily agree with this but it happens!
Good luck in your search. And as you said about the fox red ones - absolutely trust your feelings - lot of dubious ' breeders' about
Edited by spanner10 on Saturday 20th June 16:11
spanner10 said:
Your son sounds like he is an ideal Husky owner and knew the breed before getting one . They are the most beautiful pups, and having featured in a tv progamme some owners seriously underestimated the amount of grooming , training and especially exercise that they need . Destructive behaviour ( digging , chewing , jumping, running away ) can result if they get bored . Equally some are no doubt more 'wired' than others
Thanks for the reply, no surprises and you're right in that some people do underestimate the dedication that a dog like a Husky needs.
spanner10 said:
Be prepared to be cross examined - most breeders do have the interests of the dog before their wallet , and be prepared to travel
Ask vets as suggested , and owners where they got their dog from . It's best to find litters before advertised, and beware of Pets4Homes . Real prices are not that bad if you speak to , and get to know breeders. Contact the breed club secretary - they often hear about planned litters . You may need to wait for a litter to be born but this gives time to be satisfied the breeder is bona fide.
Never, ever, ever mention ,even as a joke, crossing them with poodles as this is very quick way to be judged as an unsuitable purchaser. I don't necessarily agree with this but it happens!
Good luck in your search. And as you said about the fox red ones - absolutely trust your feelings - lot of dubious ' breeders' about.
Don't worry, we're prepared for the third degree. Ask vets as suggested , and owners where they got their dog from . It's best to find litters before advertised, and beware of Pets4Homes . Real prices are not that bad if you speak to , and get to know breeders. Contact the breed club secretary - they often hear about planned litters . You may need to wait for a litter to be born but this gives time to be satisfied the breeder is bona fide.
Never, ever, ever mention ,even as a joke, crossing them with poodles as this is very quick way to be judged as an unsuitable purchaser. I don't necessarily agree with this but it happens!
Good luck in your search. And as you said about the fox red ones - absolutely trust your feelings - lot of dubious ' breeders' about.
That was one of the things that rang alarm bells about the litter I mentioned - the breeder seemed singularly disinterested about the potential homes.
I'd like to think we're about as qualified as first-time dog owners could be. Both grew up with dogs, both work flexible hours from home, rural location with a decent-sized, secure garden...
Put the word out with a few people we know locally with various types of retriever to see where they came from. Vets are a good call. May have a lead (no pun intended) with a breeder I got chatting to on a site called Champdogs. They weren't openly advertising, but may have something coming up. They're a specialist gun dog breeder with all dogs health tested, pedigree names for both sets of parents etc. Seemed nice too.
A quick rant. Over the last few days - just as a lot of companies are calling people back into work - I've noticed a sudden increase in the number of dogs being put up for sale due to 'a change in personal circumstances'. Three out of the top five Labs on Pets4Homes in my area this morning fit that description.
It really annoys me. While we've only started actively looking fairly recently, we've been working towards getting a dog for years. It's no exaggeration to say that finding somewhere we could afford a suitable house and garden for a dog was a major factor in relocating from one side of the country to another. And now, thanks to the muppets who flooded the market without doing their homework, we can barely afford the heavily inflated prices.
Anyway, rant over. Now a couple of questions...
How risky do you think these dogs of seven to nine months old could be? I realise you'd have to be very careful, ask a lot of questions, and possibly treat the owner's answers with a pinch of salt. In terms of health, I would ask all the same questions (hip scores etc) as I would to a breeder - partly to assess the dog and partly to gauge how much research the owner did before buying. I'd also leave any potentially volatile breeds well alone. But if it's something generally bombproof (in terms of temperament) like a Lab - and assuming the owner was out of their depth rather than actively abusing the animal - how much psychological baggage could the dog really pick up in seven months?
Similarly, they all seem to be about the same age. Are there any physical ailments that might have manifested themselves by that point that you wouldn't notice in a 10 or 12 week old puppy?
I won't go to a breeder who sounds at all dodgy, on principle. But picking up an adolescent dog from someone who went in with kind intentions and found themselves over their heads might be a possibility.
It really annoys me. While we've only started actively looking fairly recently, we've been working towards getting a dog for years. It's no exaggeration to say that finding somewhere we could afford a suitable house and garden for a dog was a major factor in relocating from one side of the country to another. And now, thanks to the muppets who flooded the market without doing their homework, we can barely afford the heavily inflated prices.
Anyway, rant over. Now a couple of questions...
How risky do you think these dogs of seven to nine months old could be? I realise you'd have to be very careful, ask a lot of questions, and possibly treat the owner's answers with a pinch of salt. In terms of health, I would ask all the same questions (hip scores etc) as I would to a breeder - partly to assess the dog and partly to gauge how much research the owner did before buying. I'd also leave any potentially volatile breeds well alone. But if it's something generally bombproof (in terms of temperament) like a Lab - and assuming the owner was out of their depth rather than actively abusing the animal - how much psychological baggage could the dog really pick up in seven months?
Similarly, they all seem to be about the same age. Are there any physical ailments that might have manifested themselves by that point that you wouldn't notice in a 10 or 12 week old puppy?
I won't go to a breeder who sounds at all dodgy, on principle. But picking up an adolescent dog from someone who went in with kind intentions and found themselves over their heads might be a possibility.
apotek said:
our flatcoat retriever cross, Barney who we sadly lost at the start of lockdown.
Sorry to hear that. This might sound soppy, but our first flat coat - when I was a kid - was the closest I ever had to a brother or sister. My parents got him when I was three and the two of us were inseparable for the next 13 years. He's the reason I still say hello to dogs before I register the human on the other end of the lead. 
We have a collie called Reuben, a rescue from dogs trust, again like Barney loving and lively.
I do believe a rescue repays your kindness tenfold.
we went to dogs trust Shrewsbury to find a friend for Barney as he had slowed greatly.
Our only stipulation was that they were black and white, having picked out 5 dogs only to be told all didn`t suit
for assorted reasons we were about to leave when they came up with Rueb 5 month old sad story and beautiful. Three day later he was home and settled in.
He`s a minor problem with traffic which we work around and now at 15 months totally at home.
I do believe a rescue repays your kindness tenfold.
we went to dogs trust Shrewsbury to find a friend for Barney as he had slowed greatly.
Our only stipulation was that they were black and white, having picked out 5 dogs only to be told all didn`t suit
for assorted reasons we were about to leave when they came up with Rueb 5 month old sad story and beautiful. Three day later he was home and settled in.
He`s a minor problem with traffic which we work around and now at 15 months totally at home.
I've not read the whole thread, but as you mention you both work it would be nice to have a dog that can curl up between walks, I would definitely consider a Lurchers.
For that exact reason we have a rescue greyhound collie cross who has fantastic, twenty minutes walk and he will sleep all day, really gentle especially with children and younger/older dogs, but then will also do a six hour walk in the lakes. Then a week and a half ago we added a 1yo Romanian rescue, hand picked as being one of the best they've had, who has also settled in so well!
More info in the 'price of puppies' thread.
Our Lurcher aged 6, when he arrived with his sole possession, a tatty blanket!
Two dogs together, shortly after the new boy arrived.
Daniel
For that exact reason we have a rescue greyhound collie cross who has fantastic, twenty minutes walk and he will sleep all day, really gentle especially with children and younger/older dogs, but then will also do a six hour walk in the lakes. Then a week and a half ago we added a 1yo Romanian rescue, hand picked as being one of the best they've had, who has also settled in so well!
More info in the 'price of puppies' thread.
Our Lurcher aged 6, when he arrived with his sole possession, a tatty blanket!
Two dogs together, shortly after the new boy arrived.
Daniel
Chris71 said:
A quick rant. Over the last few days - just as a lot of companies are calling people back into work - I've noticed a sudden increase in the number of dogs being put up for sale due to 'a change in personal circumstances'. Three out of the top five Labs on Pets4Homes in my area this morning fit that description.
It really annoys me. While we've only started actively looking fairly recently, we've been working towards getting a dog for years. It's no exaggeration to say that finding somewhere we could afford a suitable house and garden for a dog was a major factor in relocating from one side of the country to another. And now, thanks to the muppets who flooded the market without doing their homework, we can barely afford the heavily inflated prices.
Anyway, rant over. Now a couple of questions...
How risky do you think these dogs of seven to nine months old could be? I realise you'd have to be very careful, ask a lot of questions, and possibly treat the owner's answers with a pinch of salt. In terms of health, I would ask all the same questions (hip scores etc) as I would to a breeder - partly to assess the dog and partly to gauge how much research the owner did before buying. I'd also leave any potentially volatile breeds well alone. But if it's something generally bombproof (in terms of temperament) like a Lab - and assuming the owner was out of their depth rather than actively abusing the animal - how much psychological baggage could the dog really pick up in seven months?
Similarly, they all seem to be about the same age. Are there any physical ailments that might have manifested themselves by that point that you wouldn't notice in a 10 or 12 week old puppy?
I won't go to a breeder who sounds at all dodgy, on principle. But picking up an adolescent dog from someone who went in with kind intentions and found themselves over their heads might be a possibility.
We took on our Working Cocker Poppy when she was 9 months old, she came from a lady who had totally underestimated the breed, she had not really had the necessary training and socialisation for such an active dog, but we were able to contact the breeder which gave us some reassurance. I certainly wouldn't say it was easy but with plenty of hard work (no different to a pup) we made it through the difficult teenage phase, the selective deafness and a few sleepless nights. She's great with people not so great with other dogs. We thought about taking on a second dog even getting as far as going to see another Cocker but when we got there it was quite a relief when Poppy didn't take to her as lots of things didn't ring true advert said she was spayed, she wasn't and in fact it looked like she had recently had pups and missing gaps in her history so we walked away.I think with an adult or a puppy you've got to trust your instincts.It really annoys me. While we've only started actively looking fairly recently, we've been working towards getting a dog for years. It's no exaggeration to say that finding somewhere we could afford a suitable house and garden for a dog was a major factor in relocating from one side of the country to another. And now, thanks to the muppets who flooded the market without doing their homework, we can barely afford the heavily inflated prices.
Anyway, rant over. Now a couple of questions...
How risky do you think these dogs of seven to nine months old could be? I realise you'd have to be very careful, ask a lot of questions, and possibly treat the owner's answers with a pinch of salt. In terms of health, I would ask all the same questions (hip scores etc) as I would to a breeder - partly to assess the dog and partly to gauge how much research the owner did before buying. I'd also leave any potentially volatile breeds well alone. But if it's something generally bombproof (in terms of temperament) like a Lab - and assuming the owner was out of their depth rather than actively abusing the animal - how much psychological baggage could the dog really pick up in seven months?
Similarly, they all seem to be about the same age. Are there any physical ailments that might have manifested themselves by that point that you wouldn't notice in a 10 or 12 week old puppy?
I won't go to a breeder who sounds at all dodgy, on principle. But picking up an adolescent dog from someone who went in with kind intentions and found themselves over their heads might be a possibility.
be aware of taking so called "rescue dogs" from Eastern Europe. Many are stolen and from organised crime groups, passports are dubious as is the quality of the pre export vaccinations. The "rehoming and delivery" charges are often extremely high from countries where things are extremely cheap. Ask yourself why this is.
Dogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
Dogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
HelenT said:
We took on our Working Cocker Poppy when she was 9 months old, she came from a lady who had totally underestimated the breed, she had not really had the necessary training and socialisation for such an active dog, but we were able to contact the breeder which gave us some reassurance. I certainly wouldn't say it was easy but with plenty of hard work (no different to a pup) we made it through the difficult teenage phase, the selective deafness and a few sleepless nights. She's great with people not so great with other dogs. We thought about taking on a second dog even getting as far as going to see another Cocker but when we got there it was quite a relief when Poppy didn't take to her as lots of things didn't ring true advert said she was spayed, she wasn't and in fact it looked like she had recently had pups and missing gaps in her history so we walked away.I think with an adult or a puppy you've got to trust your instincts.
That was my thinking - on both counts. We've walked away from one puppy breeder, because things didn't quite add up. When it comes to adopting older dogs, I always think of my parents' Labrador, Diva. Her previous owner trained her to a high standard as a potential gun dog, but everything else about her upbringing was pretty awful - kept outside with little socialisation, almost no human contact and no experience of children whatsoever. After six years of that, my parents took her over. This is now her with my five-year old:
There aren't many breeds I'd want a young kid rolling around with if they came from that sort of background, but she's one of the sweetest dogs I've ever met.
dhutch said:
I've not read the whole thread, but as you mention you both work it would be nice to have a dog that can curl up between walks, I would definitely consider a Lurchers.
We've had a lot of lurchers and greyhounds in the family (all rescues from one place or another). I sort of feel I've ticked that box and I'm also a bit worried about prey drive. We are surrounded by fields on three sides, with a road on the other. The good thing is that we both work from home and we have flexible hours, so although we're more or less full-time, there's nothing to stop one of us taking an hour out in the morning for a walk and the other doing it again in the afternoon. I do think we'd be pushing it a bit with a vizsla or a collie or something that needs extremely high amounts of exercise, but I reckon we'd be fine with a retriever. Between us, we have more free time (and more outside space) than my parents did with their first flat coat.
I would think about lurchers - some have much higher prey drive than others but you only find out when you have one. . . Think I read they are one of the more stolen breeds and also one of the more dumped - usually when the police turn up. Friends of mine had a collie cross lurcher - he was no trouble and lived a long healthy life, learning to live with cats and then children . Could be trusted off lead - may have been very lucky?
The adverts for dogs for sale are very sad - ' changed circumstances' can include CBA to train them , health issues, behavior, had a litter, all sorts. With children Im not sure I would risk it and often you can't return it as they ll no longer answer the phone. I guess lots more will end up in Rescue where at least you have some comeback
The adverts for dogs for sale are very sad - ' changed circumstances' can include CBA to train them , health issues, behavior, had a litter, all sorts. With children Im not sure I would risk it and often you can't return it as they ll no longer answer the phone. I guess lots more will end up in Rescue where at least you have some comeback
loskie said:
be aware of taking so called "rescue dogs" from Eastern Europe. Many are stolen and from organised crime groups, passports are dubious as is the quality of the pre export vaccinations. The "rehoming and delivery" charges are often extremely high from countries where things are extremely cheap. Ask yourself why this is.
Dogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
Agreed . IMO a v risky way to get a dogDogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
spanner10 said:
loskie said:
be aware of taking so called "rescue dogs" from Eastern Europe. Many are stolen and from organised crime groups, passports are dubious as is the quality of the pre export vaccinations. The "rehoming and delivery" charges are often extremely high from countries where things are extremely cheap. Ask yourself why this is.
Dogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
Agreed . IMO a v risky way to get a dogDogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
If you can't figure out the difference about an Eastern European rescue home and
". Many are stolen and from organised crime groups, passports are dubious as is the quality of the pre export vaccinations. The "rehoming and delivery" charges are often extremely high from countries where things are extremely cheap. Ask yourself why this is."
then you are the stupid person. "Ask why this" ? .... No ask why you can't spot the wheat from the chaff.
It's like any purchase over the internet isn't it?
Caveat emptor
This is just keyboard alarmism which stops people in the UK trying to help out a sad situation over there.
I'd forget this and if you want an internet dog over the internet from eastern Europe then just
DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
As for anything in life, rather than spreading FUD.
spanner10 said:
loskie said:
be aware of taking so called "rescue dogs" from Eastern Europe. Many are stolen and from organised crime groups, passports are dubious as is the quality of the pre export vaccinations. The "rehoming and delivery" charges are often extremely high from countries where things are extremely cheap. Ask yourself why this is.
Dogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
Agreed . IMO a v risky way to get a dogDogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
Our shelter in Romania had UK based volunteers who provided information about the dogs, process, and conducted the home check on us, there was then an off-site Romania volunteer who spoke good written english and was the liaison with the staff on the ground. There were good photos and videos of the dogs on the groups facebook page, well sorted into albums for each dog, and we got additional videos and photos during the process of the dog being prepped, photos of the dogs test card signed with the dogs name, and a video of him at the vets, etc. They have a private 'adopters club' fb group where fellow adopters can exchange stories, with a behaviourist who gives general and specific advice all as part of the service.
Our transport was a newish looking LWB Crafter, with a custom fitted out air conditioned rear section to hold 20 dogs in segregated pens, which is the limit for the transport type and gave good space for each dog, microchip scanned and cross referenced to the transit paperwork and passport in front of me during the drop. The organisation of the delivery was slightly chaotic and none of us got good eta's of the drops (or transport dropped direct to each house) which meant some stopped up overnight unnecessarily. It did appear there was some overcrowding the vans before they arrive at our drop, following some slightly fancy footwork to use three vans for the bulk of the trip but have a 4th to get the numbers down to 20 per van through the tunnel and associated defra checkpoint.The shelter who by all account had only used this transport company twice, and only due to trying clear a covid19 backlog, apologised profusely and vowed not to use them again and trust them at their word.
Our dog arrived in good health and has settled very well, no signs of trauma, and a week in would pass for a normal 1yo dog. He has been to our local vets here in the UK who raised no concerns.
So while I have heard some horror stories but over the weeks before and after I have ended up making a network of contacts in the business, and as far as I can see while it is sadly no uncommon it remains the exception rather than the rule, certainly there is a lot of very legitimate dedicated people and companies out, there correctly and properly rehoming dogs from a country with a stray dog problem following the collapse of the political systems.
Cost wise we paid $80 for the prep; neutering, rabies and other screening, passport etc which is reasonable given what a passport cost for our other dog. And £180 for the transport which for air conditioned door to door shipping for a 1700 mile distance seems reasonable to me.
Photos of the dog in transit, and me (with corona facial hair) collecting him.
. 
Photo of him taken pre-rescue in a park by the local school, and in the centers kennels
. 
Photo of what are told are his test results.
Daniel
Gandahar said:
spanner10 said:
loskie said:
be aware of taking so called "rescue dogs" from Eastern Europe. Many are stolen and from organised crime groups, passports are dubious as is the quality of the pre export vaccinations. The "rehoming and delivery" charges are often extremely high from countries where things are extremely cheap. Ask yourself why this is.
Dogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
Agreed . IMO a v risky way to get a dogDogs have been exported with very fresh wounds from being spayed that are becoming infected, been victims of rta's and imported in an injured state and various other states that mean that they should not have been passed as fit for export by the certifying vet. These are only the noticeable things too.
Be very wary.
If you can't figure out the difference about an Eastern European rescue home and
". Many are stolen and from organised crime groups, passports are dubious as is the quality of the pre export vaccinations. The "rehoming and delivery" charges are often extremely high from countries where things are extremely cheap. Ask yourself why this is."
then you are the stupid person. "Ask why this" ? .... No ask why you can't spot the wheat from the chaff.
It's like any purchase over the internet isn't it?
Caveat emptor
This is just keyboard alarmism which stops people in the UK trying to help out a sad situation over there.
I'd forget this and if you want an internet dog over the internet from eastern Europe then just
DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
As for anything in life, rather than spreading FUD.
I wonder who the real fud is.
Edited by loskie on Friday 26th June 20:34
loskie said:
Gandahar said:
[Caveat emptor
DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
Considering that I check many of these dogs post import and have first hand experience of what I describe I ask how you can criticise me of my post?DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
One thing if forgot to mention in addition to my previous post, is that all overseas rescue centres should provide a 'rescue backup' service, as ours did, so if there is any issues with the rescue they will provide a backup foster or long term home for the dog. So unlike your post, the risk to the adopter is in fact very low.
Daniel
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