Cat - broken jaw at vet?
Discussion
After 14 1/2 years of being a real healthy cat, our Burmese has started sneezing blood. So, 3 trips to the vet in the last few weeks with poking and prodding around his mouth and nose. And today, he's in for a general anaesthetic to do some x-rays, more investigative work and to remove a tooth.
Just got a call to say they'd noticed his lower jaw was broken at the front between the fangs as I inderstand it. 2 immediate reactions - first, go ahead and do what you have to do to fix it, and second, how could that happen - he's an indoor cat?
But over the last few hours we've been thinking just how could that be possible? He's an indoor cat; he doesn't climb (so doesn't jump/fall); he eats dry crunchy food and likes crunchy treats; he likes is chin stroked; he's never howled or shown any discomfort; and over the last few weeks he's had vets poking about in his mouth with no discomfort. So I'm now thinking could this be something brought about by the vet putting tubes down his throat today?
Is it possible a cat can break a jaw by some means unknown and show no symptoms whatsoever?
Or on balance it it likely this is something brought about by the vet?
PS - 'The Vet' - of you're here, how's the Ultima going? Not seen it at KH at all this year.
Just got a call to say they'd noticed his lower jaw was broken at the front between the fangs as I inderstand it. 2 immediate reactions - first, go ahead and do what you have to do to fix it, and second, how could that happen - he's an indoor cat?
But over the last few hours we've been thinking just how could that be possible? He's an indoor cat; he doesn't climb (so doesn't jump/fall); he eats dry crunchy food and likes crunchy treats; he likes is chin stroked; he's never howled or shown any discomfort; and over the last few weeks he's had vets poking about in his mouth with no discomfort. So I'm now thinking could this be something brought about by the vet putting tubes down his throat today?
Is it possible a cat can break a jaw by some means unknown and show no symptoms whatsoever?
Or on balance it it likely this is something brought about by the vet?PS - 'The Vet' - of you're here, how's the Ultima going? Not seen it at KH at all this year.
I need to tread very carefully here. Did they xray before the dental? Which teeth did they remove? Cats jaws are fragile and bad teeth can lead to osteomyelitis (inflammation/ infection of the surrounding bone/jaw) making the jaw vulnerable to fracturing. I am being cautious because I do not want to accuse your vets of anything as they could be telling the truth but if it were me I'd want to be certain that they didn't cause it during the dental. This could've been no fault of the vet at all but they should tell you the truth.
Hi Willie, long time no see, Ultima is dead due to big bash at KH 
however, as for your cat, as Bex said, cat jaws can be very fragile at what is called the mandibular symphysis, so could have just broken, however this is rare and is likely to have had an underlying problem or a specific cause.
It is possible that the sneezing could have been a cause thro bashing his chin, I've seen nosebleeds often be caused by this but not a broken jaw. The "break" you describe is not desperately painful, so could have been there a while without major signs. Putting an ET tube down a cat is unlikely to be involved, but the most likely event at the vets that could have been involved would be manipulating the jaw and mouth while trying to extract teeth. Hard to know if the problem has been caused by my profession or if it was genuinely noticed along with the investigation. I'd like to know more about the vets, their experience and any difficulties during the op before attributing blame, but I'd also like to hear their explanation.
On the good side, fixing it is very straightforward, with a wire or suture being placed around the canines and/or bones of the jaw.
Let us know how you get on. And how your wee purple beastie is running.
however, as for your cat, as Bex said, cat jaws can be very fragile at what is called the mandibular symphysis, so could have just broken, however this is rare and is likely to have had an underlying problem or a specific cause.It is possible that the sneezing could have been a cause thro bashing his chin, I've seen nosebleeds often be caused by this but not a broken jaw. The "break" you describe is not desperately painful, so could have been there a while without major signs. Putting an ET tube down a cat is unlikely to be involved, but the most likely event at the vets that could have been involved would be manipulating the jaw and mouth while trying to extract teeth. Hard to know if the problem has been caused by my profession or if it was genuinely noticed along with the investigation. I'd like to know more about the vets, their experience and any difficulties during the op before attributing blame, but I'd also like to hear their explanation.
On the good side, fixing it is very straightforward, with a wire or suture being placed around the canines and/or bones of the jaw.
Let us know how you get on. And how your wee purple beastie is running.
Thanks for that bexVN and TheVet. Pick him up today at 2:00 [an appointment to pick him up!]. I will ask how they reckoned it happened and how long it's been like that.
Santa will have to be real generous this year.
Thevet said:
Hi Willie, long time no see, Ultima is dead due to big bash at KH
I remember the crash, but I thought it was mainly bodywork and rear suspension damage and the car was rebuildable. You had a nice engine in that car - what's it going to power next?Thevet said:
And how your wee purple beastie is running.
It's been running real well lately - round about the time yours crashed, mine started to settle down! A few niggles and fixes to be expected, but this year alone I guess it did a dozen KH sessions, plus Oulton and Cadwell and never missed a beat on track. But on the last session the digital dash/data logger gave up the ghost, and it's a discontinued model so no possibility of repair. Still in deep shock at the cost of a replacement dash/logger Santa will have to be real generous this year.Vet/Bex - i presume its the same as human xrays where you can tell how 'fresh' a break is. if it has been over a week, say, there will be evidence of new bone regrowth etc - or is it pretty hard to see on a tiny jaw?
this would help to see whether it was an accidental break during the dental if it is fresh on xray.
this would help to see whether it was an accidental break during the dental if it is fresh on xray.
I think the area xrayed would be too small to assess for new bone growth, I don't know if it is possible to detect the difference in a 5d old injury compared to a 24hr old break, and possibly given the nature of the mandibular symphysis, being effectively a bony joint that doesn't move, this would make interpreting the xray difficult to say the least.
We have had on or two broken jaws from dental work in the 20 years i have been here, but have always owned up immediately and fixed the damage, unless there was underlying pathology that was known to be a risk before surgery was undertaken, in which case it would have been discussed with the owners beforehand.
Interested to hear what you are told, go in with an open mind but it could have been vet caused or just happened for an unrelated reason.
We have had on or two broken jaws from dental work in the 20 years i have been here, but have always owned up immediately and fixed the damage, unless there was underlying pathology that was known to be a risk before surgery was undertaken, in which case it would have been discussed with the owners beforehand.
Interested to hear what you are told, go in with an open mind but it could have been vet caused or just happened for an unrelated reason.
Well, none the wiser really...and £350 lighter. No real idea how the break could have happened - could have been long standing etc. But he was eating crunchy biscuits and treats before he went in, and clearly can't manage them now. And when asked how come no-one noticed it in his 3 previous visits (and examinations of teeth etc) in the last 3 weeks, message was 'easy to miss' as you'd open the whole jaw from the front and wouldn't notice. Maybe so - I can't judge.
As to the initial reason for the visit - why was he sneezing blood - we had to ask what they'd found. I guess if we didn't make the point of asking what had been done and what they'd found we'd just have walked in, waited 30 minutes, collected cat and walked out without any knowledge of cause or treatment.
Seems there was no abscess on teeth so dental work limited to a clean and polish etc., so not cause of blood. Nothing spotted with the up-the-nose-scope, but x-rays show more soft tissue than normal in nose cavity. So back again in 2 weeks, no 6 weeks, to get jaw wires out and re-do x-rays and see what’s up. Maybe I expect too much in the way of a positive diagnosis 4 visits and one overnight stay on….
I don’t grudge the cash in any way, but to date he would be a happier cat if we’d just left well alone.
As to the initial reason for the visit - why was he sneezing blood - we had to ask what they'd found. I guess if we didn't make the point of asking what had been done and what they'd found we'd just have walked in, waited 30 minutes, collected cat and walked out without any knowledge of cause or treatment.
Seems there was no abscess on teeth so dental work limited to a clean and polish etc., so not cause of blood. Nothing spotted with the up-the-nose-scope, but x-rays show more soft tissue than normal in nose cavity. So back again in 2 weeks, no 6 weeks, to get jaw wires out and re-do x-rays and see what’s up. Maybe I expect too much in the way of a positive diagnosis 4 visits and one overnight stay on….
I don’t grudge the cash in any way, but to date he would be a happier cat if we’d just left well alone.
Broken jaws are common injuries in cats which have fallen from a height - the jaw tends to hit the ground when the cat lands.
OP, sounds like your cat is a bit of a mystery - if it's an indoor cat then trauma is unlikely to have caused a broken jaw - possibly if it jumped off the side of the top of the stairs if that's possible in your house? If the vets didn't take out any teeth in the end, it's unlikely they've broken the jaw - I can't imagine fracturing a mandibular symphysis whilst examining a cats mouth under anaesthetic, unless it was already weakened by some sort of disease.
If the vets did manage to fracture your cats jaw, I'd be amazed if they didn't tell you. Lying to an owner is pretty much guranteed to end a vets career if found out, most vets know it's always better to be honest, regardless of what's happened.
The nasal chambers are very difficult to evaluate - repeating the x-rays in a few weeks to assess if there's been any changes sounds like a valid way of investigating further. If you're keener to get a diagnosis, you could ask about referral - CT/MRI scans can give much more infomation about the nasal chambers than normal radiographs, but will be quite a lot more expensive.
OP, sounds like your cat is a bit of a mystery - if it's an indoor cat then trauma is unlikely to have caused a broken jaw - possibly if it jumped off the side of the top of the stairs if that's possible in your house? If the vets didn't take out any teeth in the end, it's unlikely they've broken the jaw - I can't imagine fracturing a mandibular symphysis whilst examining a cats mouth under anaesthetic, unless it was already weakened by some sort of disease.
If the vets did manage to fracture your cats jaw, I'd be amazed if they didn't tell you. Lying to an owner is pretty much guranteed to end a vets career if found out, most vets know it's always better to be honest, regardless of what's happened.
The nasal chambers are very difficult to evaluate - repeating the x-rays in a few weeks to assess if there's been any changes sounds like a valid way of investigating further. If you're keener to get a diagnosis, you could ask about referral - CT/MRI scans can give much more infomation about the nasal chambers than normal radiographs, but will be quite a lot more expensive.
I guess the answer is no-one will ever know. He's 14 1/2 year old Burmese and a fairly soft and sedate gent who's never climbed on anything. Plus my wife is at home most of the time and he's pretty much glued to her, so it's not as if he's left alone much and gets up to things we don't know about.
Anyway, he was pretty groggy yesterday but a bit brighter today. Next problem is administering tablets. Even gound-up on food he won't go near them. There's got to be a way of making cat-food-tasting medicines surely. We've never been able to fool any of our cats into eating tablets no matter how much we've tried to mix them in to food. Can't some enterprising vet come up with a tablet with a taste that a cat actually wants to eat?
Anyway, he was pretty groggy yesterday but a bit brighter today. Next problem is administering tablets. Even gound-up on food he won't go near them. There's got to be a way of making cat-food-tasting medicines surely. We've never been able to fool any of our cats into eating tablets no matter how much we've tried to mix them in to food. Can't some enterprising vet come up with a tablet with a taste that a cat actually wants to eat?
I wish there was a universally felifriendly pill formulation, but it hasn't appeared on the market yet. I suspect you may be right about the cause of your cat's fracture, as GD says, if no teeth removed, unlikely that jaw would be broken by handling, but that leaves some questions about how it happened. Maybe your cat has slightly more brittle bones as it has aged, and been the unfortunate recipient of some bad luck.....maybe we will never know as you say.
If giving tablets to a cat with a broken jaw is difficult (how could that possibly be difficult
) then ask your vet about long acting injections....soooo much easier.
If giving tablets to a cat with a broken jaw is difficult (how could that possibly be difficult
) then ask your vet about long acting injections....soooo much easier.Edited by Thevet on Saturday 26th November 17:28
OP you don't sound reassured by your vet, but it sounds from here that little can be done to prove it either way. It's clear they have not managed to put your mind at rest - a big part of being a good vet in my opinion (given animals can't tell you what goes on when you're not there). Talk to your neighbours and change to using one they are happy with.
We did this a few years ago. Vets are expensive (though I'm happy with that), telling you what is or isn't going on is part of what you pay for.
We did this a few years ago. Vets are expensive (though I'm happy with that), telling you what is or isn't going on is part of what you pay for.
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