Parvo enquiry

[Who me ?]

A question for the Vets/vetRN ON HERE
Site I visit at times ,has evidence of VACINATED DOGS contracting Parvo. Any more incidents of this ?

[gd49]

It can happen - no vaccine is 100% effective. I've seen 1 vaccinated dog get Parvovirus (confirmed with diagnostics) but it was so aggressive it had to be sedated to be vaccinated, so its likely the stress it underwent whenever it was vaccinated stopped the vaccine working.

I'd like to know a lot more before being certain that all cases of Parvovirus are due to vaccine failure - had these dogs had regular boosters? Was Parvovirus actually diagnosed or just assumed from the clinical signs?

[bexVN]

There are very few dogs that do not get immunity from parvo vacc, weirdly black and tan breeds seem susceptible and retrievers as a result the choice to them is either a blood test after the puppy vacc to check titre levels or just do a parvo only jab when they are 20 weeks anyway. There are dogs that will still have protection several years after pup vacc even if not boostered though for many it will drop off (the booster for parvo is only needed to be given every 3 years, with some vaccine makes)

However I am sure I am right in saying that they believe the parvo is starting to mutate.

ETA though on reading up this has been noted in Italy and spain, not here (showing a third strain.) There are two strains in this country and most vacc used cover them both.

As said already no vacc is 100% protection.

Edited by bexVN on Thursday 3rd May 23:13

[Jasandjules]

Unfortunately there are risks with vaccinating, and risks in not doing so. Some will only go the drug route, some will only go the herbal route, and some believe that allowing the dog's immunity to build up is the best way to play it. It really is a matter of looking at all the options and deciding which you prefer.

[BlackVanDyke]

Jasandjules said:

Unfortunately there are risks with vaccinating, and risks in not doing so. Some will only go the drug route, some will only go the herbal route, and some believe that allowing the dog's immunity to build up is the best way to play it. It really is a matter of looking at all the options and deciding which you prefer.

... does any vet out there really think that not vaccinating for parvo is acceptible practice for a repsonsible dog owner? Would any rescue home to an owner declaring their intent to withhold vaccination?

I don't really feel like vaccination (children or animals) should be a matter of preference, more common sense/basic responsibility...

[Jasandjules]

BlackVanDyke said:

... does any vet out there really think that not vaccinating for parvo is acceptible practice for a repsonsible dog owner? Would any rescue home to an owner declaring their intent to withhold vaccination?
...

There are a number of vets who hold this view, in this country and others.

[bexVN]

Jasandjules said:

BlackVanDyke said:

... does any vet out there really think that not vaccinating for parvo is acceptible practice for a repsonsible dog owner? Would any rescue home to an owner declaring their intent to withhold vaccination?
...

There are a number of vets who hold this view, in this country and others.

99% of dogs that get parvo are not vaccinated. It is really really unlikely for a vaccinated dog to get parvo, so I really do not see how this can be knocked.

If you know the history of Parvo you'll know what how it ripped though dogs in the 70's. 1 dog in the street would get it and the rest of the dogs in the street would then succumb. When the vacc came out people queued down the road for their dogs to be jabbed.

Parvo cases dropped dramatically, I just don't see how this is not a good thing.

[gd49]

Jasandjules said:

There are a number of vets who hold this view, in this country and others.

They are, however, very much a minority of the profession

[Who me ?]

bexVN said:

Parvo cases dropped dramatically, I just don't see how this is not a good thing.

And that's my POV. But, I've seen evidence on another breed site of young dogs being hit by a strain not responsive to the vaccines available to day. Fortunately older dogs are not getting problems. But I've got an elderly dog .So when DOES their immunity start to fall off ?

[bexVN]

That's a good question and I don't have the answer.

Your best way to find out is to blood test your dog to check titre levels, if they are high enough you probably don't need to vaccinate that year. May be best to talk to your vet about it.

[Jasandjules]

gd49 said:

They are, however, very much a minority of the profession

That does not make them wrong.

Let's ask just how much money vets make from vaccinations each year. Let's ask what is the content of many vaccinations?

I am glad Becks mentioned the trite test to check for levels of immunity, ask yourself how many vets here do that rather than just boost annually (i.e. whether necessary or not).

And I have personal experience of one cat and one dog in the last few years becoming seriously ill as a result of the vaccinations. Nearly lost the dog.

[bexVN]

Jasandjules said:

gd49 said:

They are, however, very much a minority of the profession

That does not make them wrong.

Let's ask just how much money vets make from vaccinations each year. Let's ask what is the content of many vaccinations?

I am glad Becks mentioned the trite test to check for levels of immunity, ask yourself how many vets here do that rather than just boost annually (i.e. whether necessary or not).

And I have personal experience of one cat and one dog in the last few years becoming seriously ill as a result of the vaccinations. Nearly lost the dog.

We only booster annually against Lepto and Parainfluenza as they are bacterial. Distemper and Parvo is every 3 years. In my experience when the option of blood tests are offered most owners prefer the option of just vaccinating, I think there would be a very poor uptake of blood sampling. The charges for the vaccines are not just for the vaccine you are paying for the vets time as they should offer a full all over health check at the same time. Booster appointments should NEVER just be a 5 min in and out job, this is not the work of a responsible vet.

I know when a pet has a reaction to a vaccine is is very upsetting and will forever put you off vaccines it is totally understandable but I also know for a fact that I have seen far more animals die of illnesses preventable by vaccines than I have ever seen of vaccine reactions (and yes that does include such things as fibrosarcomas)

My elderly 17yr old cat has not been vaccinated for the last 2 years as he has other health issues and I believe it unecessary for him at his time in life...I try to take a balanced view re vaccinations and an immune compromised animal shouldn't be vaccinated. Sometimes an underlying problem flares due to this, it is not actually as a result of the vaccine itself, this is just the trigger, so terming that as a vaccine reaction is misleading.

[Who me ?]

bexVN said:

That's a good question and I don't have the answer.

Your best way to find out is to blood test your dog to check titre levels, if they are high enough you probably don't need to vaccinate that year. May be best to talk to your vet about it.

My reaction is to vaccinate against anything I /vet feels he need s protected against. From the other site, it appears that it's younger dogs that are falling foul of the problem. My initial post was to make folks aware of the problem.( And vet staff,too)

[bexVN]

It is never wrong to make people aware. I'll ask my vets at work if they've heard anything. They always seem to be on the ball about such things so chances are if there is anything to this they'll know already!

[Piglet]

My experience with a dog that is almost certainly immune compromised is that even with her history , vets are reluctant to offer titre testing and are much keener to simply recommend vaccination.

It's a real struggle to know what is in the dog's best interest.

[gd49]

Jasandjules said:

That does not make them wrong.

Let's ask just how much money vets make from vaccinations each year. Let's ask what is the content of many vaccinations?

I am glad Becks mentioned the trite test to check for levels of immunity, ask yourself how many vets here do that rather than just boost annually (i.e. whether necessary or not).

And I have personal experience of one cat and one dog in the last few years becoming seriously ill as a result of the vaccinations. Nearly lost the dog.

From a purely financial point of view, vets would generate more income if every animal was serum titre tested and those needing it were vaccinated. As Bex has already mentioned, most owners when given the choice between £100+ of bloods and then vaccinating vs vaccinating anyway will opt just to vaccinate.

I'm sorry to hear that your pets have had adverse reactions to vaccinations. It's important, however, not to mistake anecdotes for data, and confuse correlation with causation. Millions of animals are vaccinated every year, and at least within the EU there's a robust system for reporting adverse drug reactions. If a significant number of animals were having bad reactions to vaccinations, we'd know about it. The system does work, in the past couple of years several drugs have been withdrawn from the market due to excessive adverse reactions.

I've seen animals dying of Parvo and Feline Leukaemia, both are slow painful deaths with frustratingly little that can be done to help the animals. In terms of the benefits of vaccination vs the risks of adverse reactions, I'd always favour vaccination.