Ticks

[Mobile Chicane]

Pointless creatures! Along with wasps and slugs

Unfortunately removing ticks from my cat is a two-person job, and although my vet offers this service for free, it's still pretty traumatic getting the cat up there since I know he hates it.

Any tips for preventing the buggers latching on in the first place?

[bexVN]

Garlic may help with this. JasandJules will probably know the dosage/ administration better. A product like frontline wouldn't stop them latching on but it does kill them quite quickly so they should drop off after a day or so.

[Jasandjules]

We put in a spoonful of garlic powder and mix it in with their food - as they get raw chicken mince and raw beef mince it swallows up the smell/taste and they wolf it down. They get this every day. The two rescues came to us with fleas and after one bath and one week of this they do not have fleas.

If you use actual garlic I can look up in the book (The Complete Herbal Handbook for Dog and Cat) the exact dose.

They do also get wormwood for worms.... also powder and mixed in with their food.

[itsnotarace]

Isn't garlic toxic to dogs and cats?

http://www.petplace.com/cats/hemolytic-anemia-in-c...

[otolith]

^^ that's what I was thinking.

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/articl...

Not sure whether chronic subclinical dosing would do any harm, though.

[bexVN]

It can be and you would want to be very cautious with immune compromised pets but I looked into this recently and the doses needed for a toxic response are very high, much higher than onions.

The powder is a tiny amount. If using real garlic I think you only give eg a quarter of a clove poss less a couple times a wk.

I'm prepared to offer this as a possible tx for ticks, don't think you'll ever catch me advising wormwood for worms. Would have to see proper scientific studies for that one first and what worms it kills.

[itsnotarace]

I would suggest a daily spoonful in their food would be a high dose for a cat, especially when there is no evidence to suggest that garlic is a good method of preventing ticks to attach in the first place

Buy a tick remover and deal with the problem at home when it occurs IMHO

http://www.misotrading.co.uk/

I'm not a vet btw

[bexVN]

itsnotarace said:

I would suggest a daily spoonful in their food would be a high dose for a cat, especially when there is no evidence to suggest that garlic is a good method of preventing ticks to attach in the first place

Buy a tick remover and deal with the problem at home when it occurs IMHO

http://www.misotrading.co.uk/

I'm not a vet btw

It's a 2 person job to remove them, so I'm guessing not easy.

Using garlic for fleas and ticks is nothing new and whilst I don't think it's good enough for flea control for most I do think it has benefits re: ticks.

It's not usually my first line of advice but it's an alternative to consider if other methods are not suitable.

Edited by bexVN on Thursday 10th May 12:41

[Jasandjules]

itsnotarace said:

I would suggest a daily spoonful in their food would be a high dose for a cat, especially when there is no evidence to suggest that garlic is a good method of preventing ticks to attach in the first place

Upon what evidence would you aver that a spoonful of garlic powder is too high a dose?

Anecdotal evidence of many people and my own experiences with a number of cats and dogs suggests that it works for both fleas and ticks, they not only rarely take hold but they also leave very quickly.

Wormwood has been used for over 1000 years...We do also use grated (organic) carrot in the food.

[bexVN]

The page otolith posted does mention low level toxicity but doesn't specify the amount.

I must admit 1tsp a day for a cat is a lot higher than I was expecting. I thought it'd be every other day and only a quarter of that.

Tbh lots of products have been used for years it doesn't mean they're the best to use. 100yrs ago there were few alternatives. I'd still want to see the science behind it.

Edited by bexVN on Thursday 10th May 12:51

[itsnotarace]

Jasandjules said:

Upon what evidence would you aver that a spoonful of garlic powder is too high a dose?

Look at the size of a cat, then look at the size of a spoonful of garlic powder (which is concentrated garlic). 1/8th of a teaspoon of garlic powder is equivalent to a whole clove of garlic

[Jasandjules]

"Ideally, 1/3 of a fresh clove of garlic should be given daily"

From Richard Allport, B Vet Med, Vet M F Hom, MRCVS.

ETA - I should add in that we give it 5 days out of 7 following the founder of natural rearing's approach to such things....

Edited by Jasandjules on Thursday 10th May 13:20

[ali_kat]

Then a spoonful of garlic powder is too high a dose for 1/3 of a clove!

Tiina, the Advocate that I do Bast & Pepi with seems to work with ticks too - never had a problem anyway!!

[Jasandjules]

ali_kat said:

Then a spoonful of garlic powder is too high a dose for 1/3 of a clove!

Tiina, the Advocate that I do Bast & Pepi with seems to work with ticks too - never had a problem anyway!!

That's why I said I could look up the actual dose (plus I wasn't even sure which spoon we use, I am hopeless at that but it's a little diddy one - not a "cutlery one" either) in the book.

I have been informed by the better half that the spoon we use is less than 1/4 of a teaspooon, and she doesn't even use all of that. So my apologies, I passed on the wrong information.

So, whatever would equate to 1/3 of a clove then basically in spoon terms...

[itsnotarace]

Jasandjules said:

"Ideally, 1/3 of a fresh clove of garlic should be given daily"

From Richard Allport, B Vet Med, Vet M F Hom, MRCVS.

itsnotarace said:

1/8th of a teaspoon of garlic powder is equivalent to a whole clove of garlic

Well I'm bloody glad I'm not your cat

Jasandjules said:

Anecdotal evidence of many people and my own experiences with a number of cats and dogs suggests that it works for both fleas and ticks, they not only rarely take hold but they also leave very quickly.

Well I'm gonna call custard on this one. Next time you witness (from your post it sounds a regular occurance) a tick jump on your cat, bite it and then drop straight off please capture it on video with a tin of Birds in the background and post it up here and I will eat my hat

PS have a read of this: http://www.vetcontact.com/en/art.php?a=711&t= and this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15671698 and this for good measure http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11108195

Back to the OP - I would strongly suggest consulting your own veterinarian about haemolytic anaemia and kidney failure before giving your cat garlic, rather than listen to a random homoeopath advocate on the internet

[bexVN]

As I was the first one on this thread to suggest garlic then you should be aiming at me not jasandjules.

I am a vet nurse and would not have suggested garlic if I thought the risk was significant. The biggest danger is with onions not garlic but I agree there should be caution as there should be for any treatments.

It was only a suggestion and the research I did advised if using real cloves it should be only 2-3 times a wk.

Jasandjules know I do not agree with them on quite a few of their approaches but garlic has been used for yrs in animals.

[Jasandjules]

itsnotarace said:

Back to the OP - I would strongly suggest consulting your own veterinarian about haemolytic anaemia and kidney failure before giving your cat garlic, rather than listen to a random homoeopath advocate on the internet

I'd certainly make sure that an animal is fit and healthy. And the homeopath advice was from a Vet, taken directly from his book. Whether anyone wishes to take any such information on board is entirely up to them, but I don't need to insult you or seek to do so in order to provide information to others.

And as for fleas and ticks dropping off, I will try to film it but they very rarely get affected at all anymore that we notice which could well be due to the garlic powder they get, and that is the idea - there is an old saying, a good doctor treats the cause, a bad doctor treats the symptoms. Before we moved to natural foods they used to get loads of ticks - I'd take one a day from one dog after every walk, and always from the same area of his face too. Hence my having the very handy tick remover gadget.

[Blue Cat]

We got a fantastic little tool from our vet - a green plastic tick tool which is great for removing ticks and is very easy to use.

You get two in a bag, one for big ticks and one for little ones

http://www.amazon.co.uk/OTom-Twister-People-Animal...

[Mobile Chicane]

Blue Cat said:

We got a fantastic little tool from our vet - a green plastic tick tool which is great for removing ticks and is very easy to use.

You get two in a bag, one for big ticks and one for little ones

http://www.amazon.co.uk/OTom-Twister-People-Animal...

That's what my vet used, and they gave me the set to take home.

He's currently on Advocate for flea control, but I'm going to change it to Frontline for the next few months. I didn't know this was effective against ticks - thanks Bex.

I doubt very much that a cat would willingly eat garlic, and I'm certainly not going to stress him out by forcing him to take it.

I think a stealth attack with the tick remover before he's realised what's happening is probably going to be the answer. Ulp!

[Jasandjules]

Blue Cat said:

We got a fantastic little tool from our vet - a green plastic tick tool which is great for removing ticks and is very easy to use.

You get two in a bag, one for big ticks and one for little ones

http://www.amazon.co.uk/OTom-Twister-People-Animal...

That's the one we used to use.