buying an apartment in spain

[Phil.]

Chris Stott said:

Andalucia have abolished the wealth tax… though the previous left wing federal government was trying to over rude that.

Yes, but I’d still take advice so you’re protected should/when the wealth returns. If someone is buying a £1m+ property then I’d expect their wealth to be sufficiently large to be in the range of any future wealth tax.

[Outdoor]

Phil. said:

Yes, but I’d still take advice so you’re protected should/when the wealth returns. If someone is buying a £1m+ property then I’d expect their wealth to be sufficiently large to be in the range of any future wealth tax.

Yes I understand what you are saying and will get advice. It’s not 100% we will move but any potential future wealth tax implications need to be understood and managed otherwise we stay in the uk. When we last lived in Spain before brexit we stayed tax domiciled in uk which worked ok but whole load of change now!

[Chris Stott]

How’s everyone doing with their spanish properties?

For those of us living here… Summer seemed to last forever this year… days of high 20’s through October… a mate was here at the beginning of November and it was still plenty warm enough to sun bathe… he even went for a couple of dips in the pool (far too cold for me!).

But the evenings have turned cooler now and I had to put the duvet back on the bed end of October. No need for heating yet… so my electricity bill was a whopping €52 last month

Here in Andalucia the lack of rain has eventually led to some water restrictions… other than catching the edge of one of the big storms for a couple of days back in October, we haven’t seen meaningful rainfall since early May… the reservoirs are now super low and we could do with a decent period of heavy rainfall or a wet winter. No sign of that so far.

Hoping you’re all doing well and that those of you who don’t live here will be able to make it back soon.

[Phil.]

Hi Chris,

We’ve been at our place in Spain near La Manga since late October, returning to the UK late next week for Xmas. The weather has been excellent. Other than one random storm late at night we’ve had no rain and it’s been 20C+ and full sun every day since.

I was thinking as you as we decided to take a 10 day 1,500km road trip exploring Andalusia in mid-November spending a few nights in Granada, Seville (Sevilla), Cadiz, past Gibraltar to Malaga, and then home via Almeria. I was amazed how green Andalusia was especially over to the west, with rolling green hills in places. We also saw snow on top of the Sierra Nevada.

Granada was quaint, with lots of weddings and really enjoyable. Cadiz was relatively quiet and nice mixture of the old town and amazing beaches. I found Seville a bit too big and commercialised for my liking. Similarly Malaga was absolutely packed with people and couldn’t imagine visiting in the high season. Temperatures were 22C+ during our visit.

The Rock of Gibraltar was covered in cloud when we passed by. The only part of our journey with bad weather happened to be the UK bit

I hope others are enjoying the great weather in Spain presently too.

[rdjohn]

We have been here in Estepona since 2 October and going back on 7th Dec. I agree with Chris that the weather has been impeccable. I think the BBQ that we had last Sunday will be our last of this year.

Last week we did a trip to Cadiz, the fish restaurants there are spectacular, as is the market but we did not take a cool box ☹️ Top-down all the way there, but come Wednesday it was bitterly cold and so only put it back down in Algeciras. Unfortunately we both picked up colds there so currently feeling a bit sorry for ourselves.

We are also paying about €50/month for electricity but dreading just how much of a bill we can run-up during the 28-days back in England.

Our mayor has ordered two micro desalination plants. They will produce enough each day to keep 20,000 people happy, unfortunately there are more than 70,000 residents.

We will come back here on 5 Jan, in time for 3-Kings - can hardly wait. Winter in Spain makes a lot of sense for retirees. Its a pity that the summer in the UK was so poor this year, Saturday at Goodwood FoS being cancelled summed things up perfectly. It would be hard to be worse next year.

[GT03ROB]

After the summer away was over for 10 days in November, when the weather was perfect. Managed to get the golf bats out for the 1st time in about 20yrs & had a couple of lessons

Due back out on the 19th staying until the 5th January. Will try to venture out on a course..

[WCZ]

weather is absolutely ste here in the UK so it's got my parents thinking about buying a property in the canaries again as my dad has managed to get german citizenship which iirc makes it easier to buy property there?

[Phil.]

WCZ said:

weather is absolutely ste here in the UK so it's got my parents thinking about buying a property in the canaries again as my dad has managed to get german citizenship which iirc makes it easier to buy property there?

See the comments above relating to the Canaries, especially re. healthcare compared to the mainland.

[Chris Stott]

Good to hear you’re all good… interested in hearing more about Cadiz as it’s somewhere we really want to visit but haven’t managed to get to yet.

I’m spending as little time in the Uk as I can get away with without offending the family… leave on the 20th, return to Spain on the 28th… I reckon I can just about cope with the cold for 8 days.

I think desalination is probably going to become increasingly important… only way they’ll be able to supply water to the fruit and veg producers and not have significant restrictions on the general public through the tourist season.

[Phil.]

Cadiz is a relaxed place to visit (off peak) and is somewhere you can walk around in just a few hours. It’s a mixture of the old town and catherdral (centre), large commercial port including cruise ships (east), botanical garden (north) and lovely beaches (west and south). Some lovely places to sit and eat. We popped into the museum to learn a bit about Cadiz’s Roman heritage. Here’s a few photos:

[swanseaboydan]

Man . . . I’m so jealous - went to Alicante for 7 days at the end of October - just loved it !! So warm and pleasant

[eyebeebe]

Flying out to Alicante for the weekend tonight. Typically it’s getting a bit cooler before warming up again once I’ve left.

We’ve made pretty decent use of the place since buying in May. Partly for the unexpected reason of needing to get some pretty major dental work done that is costing less than a third the price of home.

A slight frustration for my other half has been being told in the last month that she’s not allowed to work remotely from Spain as she doesn’t have the right to work there as a Brit. On the upside, she’s now got three weeks off over Christmas instead of working quite a bit of it.

I’ll also be over for two weeks over Christmas and have some relatives visiting. In true Brit abroad fashion we’ve ordered a turkey and pigs in blankets (and bacon and sausages) from the English butcher. In our defence we don’t live in the U.K., so it’s not like we have easy access to those things. We’ll also be going big on seafood Spanish style and celebrating Kings’ Day.

Really enjoying having the apartment and am convinced we bought the right place in the right location for now. Not wholly convinced by our neighbours though… the silly sods have voted me as El Presidente of the community in my absence from an AGM I didn’t know was taking place (due to my gestor providing the management agency with the wrong email address and the invite going into a junk folder). Why they thought it was a good idea to have a non-resident barely Spanish speaking president is anyone’s guess and there’s no way out of it.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

eyebeebe said:

Really enjoying having the apartment and am convinced we bought the right place in the right location for now. Not wholly convinced by our neighbours though… the silly sods have voted me as El Presidente of the community in my absence from an AGM I didn’t know was taking place (due to my gestor providing the management agency with the wrong email address and the invite going into a junk folder). Why they thought it was a good idea to have a non-resident barely Spanish speaking president is anyone’s guess and there’s no way out of it.

You've been stitched. The classic meeting outcome of identifying who isn't present and giving them the job no-one wants. Good luck!

[NorthDave]

eyebeebe said:

Flying out to Alicante for the weekend tonight. Typically it’s getting a bit cooler before warming up again once I’ve left.

We’ve made pretty decent use of the place since buying in May. Partly for the unexpected reason of needing to get some pretty major dental work done that is costing less than a third the price of home.

A slight frustration for my other half has been being told in the last month that she’s not allowed to work remotely from Spain as she doesn’t have the right to work there as a Brit. On the upside, she’s now got three weeks off over Christmas instead of working quite a bit of it.

I’ll also be over for two weeks over Christmas and have some relatives visiting. In true Brit abroad fashion we’ve ordered a turkey and pigs in blankets (and bacon and sausages) from the English butcher. In our defence we don’t live in the U.K., so it’s not like we have easy access to those things. We’ll also be going big on seafood Spanish style and celebrating Kings’ Day.

Really enjoying having the apartment and am convinced we bought the right place in the right location for now. Not wholly convinced by our neighbours though… the silly sods have voted me as El Presidente of the community in my absence from an AGM I didn’t know was taking place (due to my gestor providing the management agency with the wrong email address and the invite going into a junk folder). Why they thought it was a good idea to have a non-resident barely Spanish speaking president is anyone’s guess and there’s no way out of it.

The only way out of this is to become a power mad megalomaniac. Think Elon Musk levels of craziness. This will ensure only one term!

[Chris Stott]

I’ve attended quite a few AGM’s and EGM’s, and know our president pretty well... a Brit who doesn’t live here and speaks no Spanish

I also know what some of our owners are like… being president is a thankless task

A few weeks back we had an EGM about the gardeners… I left after an hour as a vote still hadn’t been taken and the meeting was getting increasingly fractious. I was later told it went on for another hour before the board passed the proposal with proxy votes much to the disgust of a few of the vocal older owners.

[PF62]

Chris Stott said:

I was later told it went on for another hour before the board passed the proposal with proxy votes much to the disgust of a few of the vocal older owners.

I can see their point - if the board knew in advance what they intended to do and that they had the proxy votes to do it, then why not tell everyone in advance that there was no point in attending or saying anything as the decision had already been made and not wasted everyone's time.

[Phil.]

eyebeebe said:

A slight frustration for my other half has been being told in the last month that she’s not allowed to work remotely from Spain as she doesn’t have the right to work there as a Brit. On the upside, she’s now got three weeks off over Christmas instead of working quite a bit of it.

Pleased you are enjoying your new apartment.

Have you considered a digital nomad visa for your wife?

[eyebeebe]

Oh yes, well aware that I’ve been stitched up. The management agent got quite upset when I told her they were screwing the stupid foreigner. I’ve considered the megalomaniac option, but I don’t think there’s enough material to work with and I don’t have the energy to get creative. I was informed of my promotion about 6 weeks ago and haven’t had to do anything yet. I’m hoping in typical Spanish fashion they’ve made a lot of noise and then nothing happens. They were supposed to arrange putting me on the bank account, but haven’t done anything.

Chris - although some of the apartments have a tourist licence (from what I can tell from the minutes at least) it’s mainly owner occupied by Spaniards, which I think is a bit different to your place, so I could see how having such an exotic president makes sense for you guys. For us, less so.

I’ll call the AGM at the earliest opportunity that works for me next year and stand down. I’ve been assured that I only have to stand for one year.

Phil. said:

Pleased you are enjoying your new apartment.

Have you considered a digital nomad visa for your wife?

Thanks Phil. Yes, we’ve considered the nomad visa. The problem is you are expected to become tax resident to renew it or put another way, spend more than 6 months of the year in Spain. That would mean losing residency in Switzerland and the company only allows her to work abroad for max 20 days a year.

We’ve also looked at EU citizenship via relatives, but we are sadly too far removed. From what we’ve seen from the Spanish embassy’s website and internet searches there aren’t any short term working visas available for Brits either. There’s no option to wing it either. Requests to work abroad have to be submitted in advance and the corporate VPN geolocates you. I could probably install a router level VPN, but if she were caught it would be a sackable offence.

[Chris Stott]

PF62 said:

Chris Stott said:

I was later told it went on for another hour before the board passed the proposal with proxy votes much to the disgust of a few of the vocal older owners.

I can see their point - if the board knew in advance what they intended to do and that they had the proxy votes to do it, then why not tell everyone in advance that there was no point in attending or saying anything as the decision had already been made and not wasted everyone's time.

To can’t do that… legally, you need to have a meeting and a certain number of owners need to be there for any decision to be ratified.

The argumentative nature of the meeting was down to a few vocal owners not being able to get their head around modern employment law… despite it being explained to them multiple times, they just wouldn’t accept that we can’t just sack people who are employed by a 3rd party specifically to work on our urbanisation.

[PF62]

Chris Stott said:

PF62 said:

Chris Stott said:

I was later told it went on for another hour before the board passed the proposal with proxy votes much to the disgust of a few of the vocal older owners.

I can see their point - if the board knew in advance what they intended to do and that they had the proxy votes to do it, then why not tell everyone in advance that there was no point in attending or saying anything as the decision had already been made and not wasted everyone's time.

To can’t do that… legally, you need to have a meeting and a certain number of owners need to be there for any decision to be ratified.

Announce the meeting and the requisite number of the board attend to ratify, but in the notification tell people that the proxy votes already given mean the decision is efectively already made, so turn up or don't turn up, it will make no difference.

Won't win you any friends but will achieve the aim without hours of nonsense.

Chris Stott said:

The argumentative nature of the meeting was down to a few vocal owners not being able to get their head around modern employment law… despite it being explained to them multiple times, they just wouldn’t accept that we can’t just sack people who are employed by a 3rd party specifically to work on our urbanisation.

That's just meeting management - if you let people mouth off they will so just tell them "tough" and move to the vote. Again, won't win you any friends but will achieve the aim without hours of nonsense.