Ryanair

[Perec]

dazco said:

Perec said:

Don't be naïve dazco, there is nothing at all unusual about this sort of arrangement in just about any sector.

Do please excuse my naivety, Perec, what other airlines predominantly have this arrangement?

From memory Easyjet does something very similar. I believe only some of their pilots are staff, many are self-employed. I would not be surprised if even the staff pilots are not employed directly.

But as I have said, this is not peculiar to RYR or the airlines.

[Globs]

dazco said:

you think it is only right that many of Ryanair's pilots are forced to start up a company in Ireland, act in a self employed manner yet making their services available only to Ryanair, so that they may undermine any countries employment laws?

My friend is a captain for Ryanair, he just takes a salary.
I'll ask him about this new scheme you claim exists some time.

[dazco]

Globs said:

My friend is a captain for Ryanair, he just takes a salary.
I'll ask him about this new scheme you claim exists some time.

There is no need to ask your 'friend' (strange that a friend should share his remuneration details with you) it is plastered all over the internet.

[dazco]

Perec said:

dazco said:

Perec said:

Don't be naïve dazco, there is nothing at all unusual about this sort of arrangement in just about any sector.

Do please excuse my naivety, Perec, what other airlines predominantly have this arrangement?

From memory Easyjet does something very similar. I believe only some of their pilots are staff, many are self-employed. I would not be surprised if even the staff pilots are not employed directly.

But as I have said, this is not peculiar to RYR or the airlines.

This is not a case of contracting particular jobs out, this is a case of people working for a company whilst being forced to declare they are self employed.

Well they are not, and they will be found out because it is not even a loophole it is just plain illegal.

[Globs]

dazco said:

Globs said:

My friend is a captain for Ryanair, he just takes a salary.
I'll ask him about this new scheme you claim exists some time.

There is no need to ask your 'friend' (strange that a friend should share his remuneration details with you) it is plastered all over the internet.

He must be wrong then, I guess he only works there. Another victory for the internet then eh?

[Perec]

dazco said:

Globs said:

My friend is a captain for Ryanair, he just takes a salary.
I'll ask him about this new scheme you claim exists some time.

There is no need to ask your 'friend' (strange that a friend should share his remuneration details with you) it is plastered all over the internet.

It isn't strange at all, is it. I cannot think of anyone I know personally who wouldn't tell me if they are salaried or self-employed. Hardly deeply sensitive information, is it?

For what it is worth, RYR certainly did have staff pilots as well as those employed by other mechanisms. I would be surprised if that has changed.

Be careful about what you read on the Internet, by the way. You will tend to find a lot of whingeing by disgruntled individuals who seem to forget that they had a choice in the matter for whether or not they became pilots for no frills airlines. You are far less likely to find people starting threads like, "I am a Ryanair staff pilot and I quite like the terms of my employment".

[dazco]

Perec said:

dazco said:

Globs said:

My friend is a captain for Ryanair, he just takes a salary.
I'll ask him about this new scheme you claim exists some time.

There is no need to ask your 'friend' (strange that a friend should share his remuneration details with you) it is plastered all over the internet.

It isn't strange at all, is it. I cannot think of anyone I know personally who wouldn't tell me if they are salaried or self-employed. Hardly deeply sensitive information, is it?

For what it is worth, RYR certainly did have staff pilots as well as those employed by other mechanisms. I would be surprised if that has changed.

Be careful about what you read on the Internet, by the way. You will tend to find a lot of whingeing by disgruntled individuals who seem to forget that they had a choice in the matter for whether or not they became pilots for no frills airlines. You are far less likely to find people starting threads like, "I am a Ryanair staff pilot and I quite like the terms of my employment".

Don't you dare patronise me!

Telling me to be careful what I read on the internet, you cheeky devil!!!

YOU be careful what you read, I am quite intelligent enough to sort the wheat from the chaff thank you very much.

And as for knowing what basis any of my friends are employed, then a massive resounding NO!! I could not say for sure 100% how any of them got paid. I could tell you how my mrs gets paid though.

[dazco]

Globs said:

dazco said:

Globs said:

My friend is a captain for Ryanair, he just takes a salary.
I'll ask him about this new scheme you claim exists some time.

There is no need to ask your 'friend' (strange that a friend should share his remuneration details with you) it is plastered all over the internet.

He must be wrong then, I guess he only works there. Another victory for the internet then eh?

You are trolling, I shall ignore you

[Perec]

dazco said:

Perec said:

dazco said:

Globs said:

My friend is a captain for Ryanair, he just takes a salary.
I'll ask him about this new scheme you claim exists some time.

There is no need to ask your 'friend' (strange that a friend should share his remuneration details with you) it is plastered all over the internet.

It isn't strange at all, is it. I cannot think of anyone I know personally who wouldn't tell me if they are salaried or self-employed. Hardly deeply sensitive information, is it?

For what it is worth, RYR certainly did have staff pilots as well as those employed by other mechanisms. I would be surprised if that has changed.

Be careful about what you read on the Internet, by the way. You will tend to find a lot of whingeing by disgruntled individuals who seem to forget that they had a choice in the matter for whether or not they became pilots for no frills airlines. You are far less likely to find people starting threads like, "I am a Ryanair staff pilot and I quite like the terms of my employment".

Don't you dare patronise me!

Telling me to be careful what I read on the internet, you cheeky devil!!!

YOU be careful what you read, I am quite intelligent enough to sort the wheat from the chaff thank you very much.

And as for knowing what basis any of my friends are employed, then a massive resounding NO!! I could not say for sure 100% how any of them got paid. I could tell you how my mrs gets paid though.

Well you're either engaging upon some sort of wind-up, or you're quite easily taken in by what you read on the web.

As for Ryanair "forcing" pilots to do anything, it's just nonsense. They go into the situation with their eyes open; if they don't like it they can choose a different career path. It is very doubtful that Ryanair is doing anything illegal because it is fairly well known how they operate, and the authorities would have been down on them a long time ago.

[dazco]

Perec said:

dazco said:

Perec said:

dazco said:

Globs said:

My friend is a captain for Ryanair, he just takes a salary.
I'll ask him about this new scheme you claim exists some time.

There is no need to ask your 'friend' (strange that a friend should share his remuneration details with you) it is plastered all over the internet.

It isn't strange at all, is it. I cannot think of anyone I know personally who wouldn't tell me if they are salaried or self-employed. Hardly deeply sensitive information, is it?

For what it is worth, RYR certainly did have staff pilots as well as those employed by other mechanisms. I would be surprised if that has changed.

Be careful about what you read on the Internet, by the way. You will tend to find a lot of whingeing by disgruntled individuals who seem to forget that they had a choice in the matter for whether or not they became pilots for no frills airlines. You are far less likely to find people starting threads like, "I am a Ryanair staff pilot and I quite like the terms of my employment".

Don't you dare patronise me!

Telling me to be careful what I read on the internet, you cheeky devil!!!

YOU be careful what you read, I am quite intelligent enough to sort the wheat from the chaff thank you very much.

And as for knowing what basis any of my friends are employed, then a massive resounding NO!! I could not say for sure 100% how any of them got paid. I could tell you how my mrs gets paid though.

Well you're either engaging upon some sort of wind-up, or you're quite easily taken in by what you read on the web.

As for Ryanair "forcing" pilots to do anything, it's just nonsense. They go into the situation with their eyes open; if they don't like it they can choose a different career path. It is very doubtful that Ryanair is doing anything illegal because it is fairly well known how they operate, and the authorities would have been down on them a long time ago.

Yes, some are FORCED to go self employed if they want to fly for Ryanair.

Taken in by what I read on the web??? have you looked??
The web is not chock full of lies, there is some truth there, if you haven't got a common sense filter then don't tar me with the same brush.

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2010/10/g...
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/Compa...
http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Pilot-Life-Story-...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/445086-ryan...
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/question...
http://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners...
http://www.balpa.org/News-and-campaigns/News/Archi...
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/a...
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubR...

There you go, plenty to 'not believe'.

[Globs]

dazco said:

Yes, some are FORCED to go self employed if they want to fly for Ryanair.

You appear to be obsessed, easyjet doesn't come out smelling too good either does it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2274412/...

The fact remains that I get very good value and service with Ryanair, and from the people I know it isn't too bad a place to work for in this day and age.
If trains could even be 10x cheaper Ryanair would still win by a mile.

[Perec]

dazco said:

Perec said:

dazco said:

Perec said:

dazco said:

Globs said:

My friend is a captain for Ryanair, he just takes a salary.
I'll ask him about this new scheme you claim exists some time.

There is no need to ask your 'friend' (strange that a friend should share his remuneration details with you) it is plastered all over the internet.

It isn't strange at all, is it. I cannot think of anyone I know personally who wouldn't tell me if they are salaried or self-employed. Hardly deeply sensitive information, is it?

For what it is worth, RYR certainly did have staff pilots as well as those employed by other mechanisms. I would be surprised if that has changed.

Be careful about what you read on the Internet, by the way. You will tend to find a lot of whingeing by disgruntled individuals who seem to forget that they had a choice in the matter for whether or not they became pilots for no frills airlines. You are far less likely to find people starting threads like, "I am a Ryanair staff pilot and I quite like the terms of my employment".

Don't you dare patronise me!

Telling me to be careful what I read on the internet, you cheeky devil!!!

YOU be careful what you read, I am quite intelligent enough to sort the wheat from the chaff thank you very much.

And as for knowing what basis any of my friends are employed, then a massive resounding NO!! I could not say for sure 100% how any of them got paid. I could tell you how my mrs gets paid though.

Well you're either engaging upon some sort of wind-up, or you're quite easily taken in by what you read on the web.

As for Ryanair "forcing" pilots to do anything, it's just nonsense. They go into the situation with their eyes open; if they don't like it they can choose a different career path. It is very doubtful that Ryanair is doing anything illegal because it is fairly well known how they operate, and the authorities would have been down on them a long time ago.

Yes, some are FORCED to go self employed if they want to fly for Ryanair.

Taken in by what I read on the web??? have you looked??
The web is not chock full of lies, there is some truth there, if you haven't got a common sense filter then don't tar me with the same brush.

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2010/10/g...
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/Compa...
http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Pilot-Life-Story-...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/445086-ryan...
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/question...
http://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners...
http://www.balpa.org/News-and-campaigns/News/Archi...
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/a...
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubR...

There you go, plenty to 'not believe'.

If they don't like it, no one is forcing them to fly for Ryanair. They are going in with their eyes open.

As for the links you have provided, a brief glance doesn't reveal any evidence that Ryanair is doing anything illegal, just a lot of questions about whether they are or not. I think before you start accusing companied of acting illegally you should probably be sure of your facts. Can you point to a court judgement that finds Ryanair's MO to be illegal?

[dazco]

Perec said:

If they don't like it, no one is forcing them to fly for Ryanair. They are going in with their eyes open.

As for the links you have provided, a brief glance doesn't reveal any evidence that Ryanair is doing anything illegal, just a lot of questions about whether they are or not. I think before you start accusing companied of acting illegally you should probably be sure of your facts. Can you point to a court judgement that finds Ryanair's MO to be illegal?

Change of tack now?

Wind someone else up please.

[Perec]

dazco said:

Perec said:

If they don't like it, no one is forcing them to fly for Ryanair. They are going in with their eyes open.

As for the links you have provided, a brief glance doesn't reveal any evidence that Ryanair is doing anything illegal, just a lot of questions about whether they are or not. I think before you start accusing companied of acting illegally you should probably be sure of your facts. Can you point to a court judgement that finds Ryanair's MO to be illegal?

Change of tack now?

Wind someone else up please.

No change of tack in my mind, dazco.

You said,

dazco said:

This is not a case of contracting particular jobs out, this is a case of people working for a company whilst being forced to declare they are self employed.

Well they are not, and they will be found out because it is not even a loophole it is just plain illegal.

And thus far you have been unable to substantiate your assertion regarding illegality. But if you do find reference to the court decision on the matter (and there would be one) then please post back.

[dazco]

Perec said:

No change of tack in my mind, dazco.

You said,

dazco said:

This is not a case of contracting particular jobs out, this is a case of people working for a company whilst being forced to declare they are self employed.

Well they are not, and they will be found out because it is not even a loophole it is just plain illegal.

And thus far you have been unable to substantiate your assertion regarding illegality. But if you do find reference to the court decision on the matter (and there would be one) then please post back.

it is a change of tack, earlier you was telling me not to believe that any of this existed, now you are saying it is totally legal because no-one in this country has been brought to task yet.

Your last paragraph had me laughing out loud, you honestly think you are some kind of internet lawyer don't you?

[Globs]

Why are you so obsessed with Ryanair dazco?

[Perec]

dazco said:

it is a change of tack, earlier you was telling me not to believe that any of this existed, now you are saying it is totally legal because no-one in this country has been brought to task yet.

Your last paragraph had me laughing out loud, you honestly think you are some kind of internet lawyer don't you?

Think you are confusing me with someone else dazco. I know very well that Ryanair only employs some of its pilots directly.

As for internet lawyerism, you're the one telling us all that RYR is acting illegally.

[dazco]

Perec said:

Think you are confusing me with someone else dazco. I know very well that Ryanair only employs some of its pilots directly.

As for internet lawyerism, you're the one telling us all that RYR is acting illegally.

I am not confusing you with anyone, you 'advised' me not to believe what I read on the internet when I mentioned Ryanair's dubious employment practice.

[Deva Link]

Anyway, NSFW or probably if there are young ot old people around:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyl2tOaKxM&fea...

[Perec]

dazco said:

Perec said:

Think you are confusing me with someone else dazco. I know very well that Ryanair only employs some of its pilots directly.

As for internet lawyerism, you're the one telling us all that RYR is acting illegally.

I am not confusing you with anyone, you 'advised' me not to believe what I read on the internet when I mentioned Ryanair's dubious employment practice.

You certainly do seem to be confused, dazco, and consumed by irrational and unsubstantiable beliefs about Ryanair. I am sure you don't use their services and I also imagine that they don't fret about that fact, so all would seem to be well, wouldn't it.