Daftest stuff said on PH which isn't really true
Discussion
Mr Pointy said:
julian64 said:
I have to admit I tend to disagree with the idea of counter steering, especially when directed at new riders. I think the truth is that the physics of riding a bicycle or motorcycle aren't well understood, and not just by me. If you look at places like the Californian bike school they are treat it like a revelation, and have a demo of a bike showing a curve is impossible without it, but it is quite contrived.
I don't know about contrived but this video demonstrates that if you can't steer to the left, you can't turn right:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cNmUNHSBac
The only thing the video demonstrates is that the posters of the video have designed a particularly poor experiment to look at the problem.
Go back to my previous comments about when you were a kid and steered your bike with no hands on the handlebars. How did the bike do the job of going around a corner with no handlebar input?
look at this video from 1:20 on
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo...
Explain how the bike steers using only the saddle, and then goes on to ride the bike using only the saddle If countersteering input is required for a corner then there is either some very evil physics going on that when you tilt the bike saddle it first moves the steering counterintuitively without out human input (making a couscous decision to use countersteering irrelevant) or it isn't a thing at all.
Crikey there's a world of difference between steering a 8kg push bike at 20 mph & a 200kg superbike at high speed, anyone not countersteering a motorbike to some degree above 15-20 mph is either delusional or an absolute liability in the corners should there be any need to tighten the line in a hurry....
That or maybe you need to get hold of all the motorcycle racers in the world & tell them they are all doing it wrong.....
That or maybe you need to get hold of all the motorcycle racers in the world & tell them they are all doing it wrong.....
..
julian64 said:
Explain how the bike steers using only the saddle, and then goes on to ride the bike using only the saddle If countersteering input is required for a corner then there is either some very evil physics going on that when you tilt the bike saddle it first moves the steering counterintuitively without out human input (making a couscous decision to use countersteering irrelevant) or it isn't a thing at all.
Leaning the bike is what's needed to go round a corner. When riding a bicycle with no hands you can achieve this easily enough by effectively sticking your bum out a bit to one side, your center of mass stays in the same place but you angle the bike slightly by moving the top of the bike in the direction of the turn. Counter steering tilts the bike by moving the bottom of the bike away from the direction of the turn. On my 15kg bicycle it's easy to steer it by moving my 95ish kg a bit. On my 190kg motorbike bike it's a lot less effective.There's nothing complicated about the physics. Put a sheet of paper on the desk and stand a pencil on it. There's 2 ways to make the pencil fall to the left, push the top left or pull the paper right.
RizzoTheRat said:
julian64 said:
Explain how the bike steers using only the saddle, and then goes on to ride the bike using only the saddle If countersteering input is required for a corner then there is either some very evil physics going on that when you tilt the bike saddle it first moves the steering counterintuitively without out human input (making a couscous decision to use countersteering irrelevant) or it isn't a thing at all.
Leaning the bike is what's needed to go round a corner. When riding a bicycle with no hands you can achieve this easily enough by effectively sticking your bum out a bit to one side, your center of mass stays in the same place but you angle the bike slightly by moving the top of the bike in the direction of the turn. Counter steering tilts the bike by moving the bottom of the bike away from the direction of the turn. On my 15kg bicycle it's easy to steer it by moving my 95ish kg a bit. On my 190kg motorbike bike it's a lot less effective.There's nothing complicated about the physics. Put a sheet of paper on the desk and stand a pencil on it. There's 2 ways to make the pencil fall to the left, push the top left or pull the paper right.
https://www.nature.com/articles/535338a
Everything about it is complicated....which is why we get a lot of opposing views over the years and when people tire of the complexity they turn to people who say they confidently know the answer, when of course the real answer is 'maybe'
First to see will buy.
Unique number plate / registration.
One careful lady owner. Not based on my partner anyway.
A man is entitled to have sex with his wife or partner, it is her duty to provide.
The new TVR Griffith will be on sale in quarter three. [ Insert year here ]
Unique number plate / registration.
One careful lady owner. Not based on my partner anyway.
A man is entitled to have sex with his wife or partner, it is her duty to provide.
The new TVR Griffith will be on sale in quarter three. [ Insert year here ]
Edited by Monkeylegend on Friday 24th November 10:39
jonathan_roberts said:
The number of people on here who have an obsession with knowing someone who they describe as "old money" who drives a beaten up Volvo and doesn't wear brand names. Describing someone as old money makes me cringe.
I haven't been here much longer than you but I have never seen that expression used.Monkeylegend said:
jonathan_roberts said:
The number of people on here who have an obsession with knowing someone who they describe as "old money" who drives a beaten up Volvo and doesn't wear brand names. Describing someone as old money makes me cringe.
I haven't been here much longer than you but I have never seen that expression used.boyse7en said:
Monkeylegend said:
jonathan_roberts said:
The number of people on here who have an obsession with knowing someone who they describe as "old money" who drives a beaten up Volvo and doesn't wear brand names. Describing someone as old money makes me cringe.
I haven't been here much longer than you but I have never seen that expression used.Find me posts where it is mentioned often and I will change my mind
Monkeylegend said:
I was specifically referring to the expression "old money" as posted.
Find me posts where it is mentioned often and I will change my mind
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...Find me posts where it is mentioned often and I will change my mind
Monkeylegend said:
boyse7en said:
Monkeylegend said:
jonathan_roberts said:
The number of people on here who have an obsession with knowing someone who they describe as "old money" who drives a beaten up Volvo and doesn't wear brand names. Describing someone as old money makes me cringe.
I haven't been here much longer than you but I have never seen that expression used.Find me posts where it is mentioned often and I will change my mind
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
...
otolith said:
Monkeylegend said:
I was specifically referring to the expression "old money" as posted.
Find me posts where it is mentioned often and I will change my mind
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...Find me posts where it is mentioned often and I will change my mind
boyse7en said:
Monkeylegend said:
boyse7en said:
Monkeylegend said:
jonathan_roberts said:
The number of people on here who have an obsession with knowing someone who they describe as "old money" who drives a beaten up Volvo and doesn't wear brand names. Describing someone as old money makes me cringe.
I haven't been here much longer than you but I have never seen that expression used.Find me posts where it is mentioned often and I will change my mind
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
...
Caddyshack said:
I had my first motorbike at age 10 (TY80), I had a road bike from 16 then a 125 at 17 then found cars...I kept dipping in and out with 125's for green laning, motorcross and then CBT 125's. It was only in my later years on a MITO with 30hp that I started to experiment with counter steer but then on my full bike test in my 40's I was taught to always use counter steer and I did find it to be a bit of a revelation as I had previously found it hard to make the bike turn. My riding style now on sports 600 is to countersteer.
Since you know about road bikes and dirt bikes have you any observations on cornering dirt bikes like this? Odd thing is that in the second photo the bike is on tarmac. The issue for me is the rider body position rather than the foot-out.
julian64 said:
Mr Pointy said:
julian64 said:
I have to admit I tend to disagree with the idea of counter steering, especially when directed at new riders. I think the truth is that the physics of riding a bicycle or motorcycle aren't well understood, and not just by me. If you look at places like the Californian bike school they are treat it like a revelation, and have a demo of a bike showing a curve is impossible without it, but it is quite contrived.
I don't know about contrived but this video demonstrates that if you can't steer to the left, you can't turn right:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cNmUNHSBac
The only thing the video demonstrates is that the posters of the video have designed a particularly poor experiment to look at the problem.
Go back to my previous comments about when you were a kid and steered your bike with no hands on the handlebars. How did the bike do the job of going around a corner with no handlebar input?
look at this video from 1:20 on
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo...
Explain how the bike steers using only the saddle, and then goes on to ride the bike using only the saddle If countersteering input is required for a corner then there is either some very evil physics going on that when you tilt the bike saddle it first moves the steering counterintuitively without out human input (making a couscous decision to use countersteering irrelevant) or it isn't a thing at all.
Randy Winkman said:
Caddyshack said:
I had my first motorbike at age 10 (TY80), I had a road bike from 16 then a 125 at 17 then found cars...I kept dipping in and out with 125's for green laning, motorcross and then CBT 125's. It was only in my later years on a MITO with 30hp that I started to experiment with counter steer but then on my full bike test in my 40's I was taught to always use counter steer and I did find it to be a bit of a revelation as I had previously found it hard to make the bike turn. My riding style now on sports 600 is to countersteer.
Since you know about road bikes and dirt bikes have you any observations on cornering dirt bikes like this? Odd thing is that in the second photo the bike is on tarmac. The issue for me is the rider body position rather than the foot-out.Why’s are your thoughts on this?
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