Average house price now 8.7 times average income
Discussion
x5tuu said:
My 21yrs direct experience in property management and lettings across the NE. The market has massively shifted in what demographs of people want what type of property.
20yrs ago there was a lot more willingness to start with something small and move up the ladder, now there is none of that, its straight in to a brand new, 4/5/6bd detatched, double/triple driveway, etc.
Attend any property auction or speak to any sales or letting agent here and youll see the same rhetoric over and over again.
FTBs arent the ones buying or letting at the lower end of the market like you would expect to see.
I used to be a sales and letting agent in the South East and this really doesn't match my experience. A first timer buying or renting a 4/5/6 bed detached was incredibly rare - the two I can remember were a young lad with a substantial trust fund and a young lady who was well on the way to being a successful Film and TV actress.20yrs ago there was a lot more willingness to start with something small and move up the ladder, now there is none of that, its straight in to a brand new, 4/5/6bd detatched, double/triple driveway, etc.
Attend any property auction or speak to any sales or letting agent here and youll see the same rhetoric over and over again.
FTBs arent the ones buying or letting at the lower end of the market like you would expect to see.
Even if I just look at my friends (a much smaller sample, admittedly) - mostly professionals, all have started with what you would think of as typical first time buyer homes.
VanDriver99 said:
It is clear the current Generation have no intention of waiting for things .....like my generation have.
Credit Cards started it all off....live now pay later..to extraordinary measures ??
This. I will never get my head around £400 month to rent a car, £50 a month for the latest phone etc… when did we stop saving up for stuff? Credit Cards started it all off....live now pay later..to extraordinary measures ??
borcy said:
As they say want doesn't get, so how far away are they from buying these houses? Are they on normal wages. I find it hard to believe people are looking at properties that are orders of magnitude away from what what they can afford? Perhaps there are lots of people wasting their time.
People on say 25k are looking at 500k houses that sort of thing?
Currently I have a niece, 19, zero qualifications, she works p/t at screwfix on the counter, 8hrs/wk - so that’s about £5500/yr. expecting her first child and about to go on maternity leave. Her bf works for a car mapping company for £400/wk cash in hand (£21k-ish). People on say 25k are looking at 500k houses that sort of thing?
Edited by borcy on Sunday 17th March 09:30
Looking at buying and won’t look at anything other than a 4bd detached in a very nice area, now even in the area they’re looking at that’s still £360k minimum.
It’s like they live on a different planet mentally. Totally unrealistic.
okgo said:
Yes. It’s a stupid trope trotted out by typically older people who exist only in their echo chambers. And usually paid about a quid for their house many years ago. And often worked jobs that have been eliminated by tech so they’re out of touch with where and what work exists too.
Not sure if this is aimed at me, if so you couldn’t be more wrong. I’m 41, my ft job is a healthcare consultant, zero echo chamber, just direct first hand experience and zero sympathy - there are options, people on the whole just don’t want them.
x5tuu said:
Currently I have a niece, 19, zero qualifications, she works p/t at screwfix on the counter, 8hrs/wk - so that’s about £5500/yr. expecting her first child and about to go on maternity leave. Her bf works for a car mapping company for £400/wk cash in hand (£21k-ish).
Looking at buying and won’t look at anything other than a 4bd detached in a very nice area, now even in the area they’re looking at that’s still £360k minimum.
It’s like they live on a different planet mentally. Totally unrealistic.
They’re clearly just thick. Those people have always existed and they’ll be paid for by the state for ever more. Useless to society in any fiscal sense and typically go on to produce more of the same. Looking at buying and won’t look at anything other than a 4bd detached in a very nice area, now even in the area they’re looking at that’s still £360k minimum.
It’s like they live on a different planet mentally. Totally unrealistic.
They’re not really the sort of people I think most are referring to here. Most normal people do not think they’re going to be buying a 4 bedroom detached house while not even having a f
king job. x5tuu said:
Her bf works for a car mapping company for £400/wk cash in hand (£21k-ish).
Totally unrealistic.
SnippedTotally unrealistic.
In terms of first snip, wow, there is serious potential for trouble other than buying a house there (as well as not being able to prove income).
In terms of the second snip, then yes, as you know, absolutely no chance, even without the tax dodging.
I’m absolutely not having a go at you, but tax evasion (not avoidance) of somewhere around 10k pa? Jeez.
I’m one of these “young” people, under 30. Tbh it was quite simple and easy to buy a house. Have a 2 bed semi detached garden driveway etc. in a small country town.
A couple of years of no holidays and meerkat movie date nights . I sold my car for a 500 quid banger. That was the deposit sorted.
In my peer group I seem to see the ones who grew up working class know how to save the deposit and live within means. It’s the ones who grew up middle class or in London that seem to think everything is owed to them.
A couple of years of no holidays and meerkat movie date nights . I sold my car for a 500 quid banger. That was the deposit sorted.
In my peer group I seem to see the ones who grew up working class know how to save the deposit and live within means. It’s the ones who grew up middle class or in London that seem to think everything is owed to them.
Edited by Tigerj on Sunday 17th March 15:20
ChevronB19 said:
x5tuu said:
Her bf works for a car mapping company for £400/wk cash in hand (£21k-ish).
Totally unrealistic.
SnippedTotally unrealistic.
In terms of first snip, wow, there is serious potential for trouble other than buying a house there (as well as not being able to prove income).
In terms of the second snip, then yes, as you know, absolutely no chance, even without the tax dodging.
I’m absolutely not having a go at you, but tax evasion (not avoidance) of somewhere around 10k pa? Jeez.
There is zero other reason someone would take £400wk cash in hand.
Its £10 hr if you are doing a 40hr week. You can earn that literally anywhere (after tax tbh) unless he is very young.
The loss in state pension benefits alone makes it totally not worth it long term.
What if his employer goes bankrupt. No redundancy for him etc etc etc. Insurance? Yeah guess they don't have that either.
The other possibility is "cash in hand" is actually just that - cash payment not BACS.
Some places (ok its rare these days) still pay cash pay packets. We did it until 2018 ish.
A lot of people assume by paying cash there is no tax paid - but sometimes its legit.
I have had to explain it to quite intelligent friends of mine that when we were paying employees cash it was still subject to tax and NI.
monkfish1 said:
One of the main drivers is so you can afford to live in retirement.
With a piss poor state pension, and a very much screwed private pension system (thanks Gordon) renting in retirement would be hard to fund.
I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown screwing the private pension sector was party the catalyst for the current problems. I was between houses a few years back and needed to rent, whilst chatting to the landlord he mentioned that he had got into buy to let as he didn't want to be a victim of a Gordon Brown style pension pot shafting. With a piss poor state pension, and a very much screwed private pension system (thanks Gordon) renting in retirement would be hard to fund.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/prope...
Topical from the MEN today, average house prices v average wages across Greater Manchester
Topical from the MEN today, average house prices v average wages across Greater Manchester
monkfish1 said:
Short version. Supply and demand.
Massively increased demand, and no appreciable supply side increase and here we are.
Blame for that lies with government. Only government can change it. But wont.
Only alternative is that we experience a net outflow of people, thus reducing demand. Seems unlikely in the near term
Almost. The other alternative is a return to cohabitation and "traditional" households. Also seems unlikely in the near term.Massively increased demand, and no appreciable supply side increase and here we are.
Blame for that lies with government. Only government can change it. But wont.
Only alternative is that we experience a net outflow of people, thus reducing demand. Seems unlikely in the near term
x5tuu said:
Currently I have a niece, 19, zero qualifications, she works p/t at screwfix on the counter, 8hrs/wk - so that’s about £5500/yr. expecting her first child and about to go on maternity leave. Her bf works for a car mapping company for £400/wk cash in hand (£21k-ish).
Looking at buying and won’t look at anything other than a 4bd detached in a very nice area, now even in the area they’re looking at that’s still £360k minimum.
It’s like they live on a different planet mentally. Totally unrealistic.
I'm sure there's some day dreamers, they've always been about. Looking at buying and won’t look at anything other than a 4bd detached in a very nice area, now even in the area they’re looking at that’s still £360k minimum.
It’s like they live on a different planet mentally. Totally unrealistic.
Slow.Patrol said:
They wait for their Boomer Grandparents to shuffle off.
We don't have kids. All nieces and nephews have managed to get on the housing ladder, so great nieces and nephews might get lucky. Unless we end up in a care home.
To b fair, it is still possible to buy a house as long as you are not in the south east.
ETA. Also, not everyone will be a home owner. My sister is 68 and never owned her own home being a single parent.
If my parents died tomorrow, which is possible, (but given how they looked yesterday, they seem intent on going on for a good while), I would have enough money to retire Early. We don't have kids. All nieces and nephews have managed to get on the housing ladder, so great nieces and nephews might get lucky. Unless we end up in a care home.
To b fair, it is still possible to buy a house as long as you are not in the south east.
ETA. Also, not everyone will be a home owner. My sister is 68 and never owned her own home being a single parent.
Edited by Slow.Patrol on Friday 15th March 19:09
Would I share it with my kids? Maybe, but I'd have to keep working.
Part of me thinks, "How much did you actually save, going out to restaurants twice a week ?"
And part of me thinks. "Here have a leg up"
VanDriver99 said:
So I ask again ...what does the South East have that Sunderland doesn't??
Surely a lower priced base where you are not financially looking over your shoulder all the time is everyones goal??There are well paid jobs in Sunderland too.
Im not sure if you consider the A20 (Sidcup) area as the South East but there are a number set to lose their income there with a scandal over Speeding Offences.60,000(and counting) Notices of Intended Prosecution delivered in the space of 2 months.One guy has 11.
Well paid jobs.Surely a lower priced base where you are not financially looking over your shoulder all the time is everyones goal??There are well paid jobs in Sunderland too.
Im not sure if you consider the A20 (Sidcup) area as the South East but there are a number set to lose their income there with a scandal over Speeding Offences.60,000(and counting) Notices of Intended Prosecution delivered in the space of 2 months.One guy has 11.
I blame the Bank of England, and to an extent, the Government for this mess. When the financial crisis came along they slashed interest rates to try are prevent the country an even bigger catastrophe than we ended up with. They then realised the low interest rates does great things for the property market, and with so much of the economy being based on property values they can keep the GDP going up even if the productivity doesn't. Very short sighted. Because you then up where we are now.
Some people will no doubt say this is garbage, and it might be, but it is my opinion, be it right or wrong.
I had occasion to visit Wales in the week.
Absolutely thousands of three bedroom terraced houses for around the 100k mark and in very nice order too.
This ad for bus drivers caught my eye. £13.50 an hour while training £17 plus when qualified.
Imagine doing that and your partners a carer/supermarket cashier/receptionist in a car showroom.
Your combined income would be comfortably north of £60,000
You do the maths.
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Absolutely thousands of three bedroom terraced houses for around the 100k mark and in very nice order too.
This ad for bus drivers caught my eye. £13.50 an hour while training £17 plus when qualified.
Imagine doing that and your partners a carer/supermarket cashier/receptionist in a car showroom.
Your combined income would be comfortably north of £60,000
You do the maths.
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It really does depend where you live.
I think it’s 15x average salary here, hence an enormous rental market.
A few construction companies have gone tits up recently, with increasing interest rates and materials prices, creating a depressed depressed market. In a small economy that was >400 staff laid off from those builders,
I think it’s 15x average salary here, hence an enormous rental market.
A few construction companies have gone tits up recently, with increasing interest rates and materials prices, creating a depressed depressed market. In a small economy that was >400 staff laid off from those builders,
To anyone thinking of having kids and worried about this (and it’s a fair concern), the best thing to do is start saving for them as soon as they’re born and let compound interest do the hard work.
We put a sum of money per month into savings trust for them each. By the time they’re 21 that’s a healthy deposit. We just made it a monthly DD that came off at the same time as all the other normal monthlies and treated it as such.
We put a sum of money per month into savings trust for them each. By the time they’re 21 that’s a healthy deposit. We just made it a monthly DD that came off at the same time as all the other normal monthlies and treated it as such.
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