Emigrating/moving abroad. Anyone done it?

[King Herald]

Newky Brown said:

Several years ago I went out on a B-2 visa when I was offered work by a US company. I was told that the B-2 would be OK even though I knew it wasn't. I tried a bit of Billy bullst at immigration and long story short, got interrogated and sent home on the next flight.

Result is that I can't go out on an ESTA anymore and have to have a visa. The first few times after I got pulled but it has been ok since. My visa runs out soon and I can't be bothered to renew which is a shame as I generally like the place.

I first worked in the USA about 20 years ago, in New Orleans recommissioning a ship. Back then we just used a transit visa to enter and to join a ship.

A year or so after that my employers were taken to court and had to pay $18,000,000 in fines and costs for their little ‘oversight’. Ever since then they have been super strict on any visa we use to pass into the USA.

Couple of years ago, when working in Mexico, I had to fly through the USA, three hour layover. I told the immigration guy I was entering on my Esta, as I was not going to work there, and there is no transit as such. He got all bent out of shape and sent me off to the small room for an hour.

The boys in there explained that, for god only know what reason, if I am heading through the USA going somewhere else to work I HAVE to use my US work visa for the transit.

I have no idea why that is, neither did my company visa experts. (We had a department that did nothing but visas!) They were still telling some people to use their Esta, despite the experiences some of us had had trying that. Experts? Ha. They knew less than many of we travellers did.

[evilmunkey]

im self employed in the special fx industry and am considering relocating to Greece, my other half is from thessoloniki and i have no family left here, her family is my family , and with the job i do it requires travel anyway. i cant see any good reson to stay in the uk to be honest. its become a dismal depressing place and everytime i go to greece it feels more like home. better weather, food, friendly folk and i can still do my job but with cheaper overheads for workspace etc.

[Newky Brown]

King Herald said:

Newky Brown said:

Several years ago I went out on a B-2 visa when I was offered work by a US company. I was told that the B-2 would be OK even though I knew it wasn't. I tried a bit of Billy bullst at immigration and long story short, got interrogated and sent home on the next flight.

Result is that I can't go out on an ESTA anymore and have to have a visa. The first few times after I got pulled but it has been ok since. My visa runs out soon and I can't be bothered to renew which is a shame as I generally like the place.

I first worked in the USA about 20 years ago, in New Orleans recommissioning a ship. Back then we just used a transit visa to enter and to join a ship.

A year or so after that my employers were taken to court and had to pay $18,000,000 in fines and costs for their little ‘oversight’. Ever since then they have been super strict on any visa we use to pass into the USA.

Couple of years ago, when working in Mexico, I had to fly through the USA, three hour layover. I told the immigration guy I was entering on my Esta, as I was not going to work there, and there is no transit as such. He got all bent out of shape and sent me off to the small room for an hour.

The boys in there explained that, for god only know what reason, if I am heading through the USA going somewhere else to work I HAVE to use my US work visa for the transit.

I have no idea why that is, neither did my company visa experts. (We had a department that did nothing but visas!) They were still telling some people to use their Esta, despite the experiences some of us had had trying that. Experts? Ha. They knew less than many of we travellers did.

Jesus $18 million! I think we were very lucky to get away with sending guys out there to work and did it for many years. As far as I'm aware they still do so.

When I got back the US immigration lawyer reckoned I should have called her as she would have got me through. God knows how.

The US immigration are a funny lot, some times they would say 'I know this is bullst but I'm going to have to send you for an interview" others wouldn't even talk to you and looked at you liked you'd murdered their firstborn whilst summoning an escort to take you through.

[Matt Harper]

Newky Brown said:

Several years ago I went out on a B-2 visa when I was offered work by a US company. I was told that the B-2 would be OK even though I knew it wasn't. I tried a bit of Billy bullst at immigration and long story short, got interrogated and sent home on the next flight.

Result is that I can't go out on an ESTA anymore and have to have a visa. The first few times after I got pulled but it has been ok since. My visa runs out soon and I can't be bothered to renew which is a shame as I generally like the place.

I think this could be a very good example of the importance of semantics when dealing with CBP officials, whose remit is far more slanted toward keeping certain people out, versus letting certain people in.

The B-1 visa is intended for business visitors - and that description is very different to the concept of 'working'. The second you mention the "W" word, you better be damn sure you have an employment based visa, a green card or a US passport to back it up. It is my experience that some CBP officials are more human than others, saying things like, "Would you like to re-phrase that for me?"

A good explanation when using a B-1 would be - visiting US colleagues for the purpose of training, education or evaluation - attending a conference, exhibition or "business meeting" - visiting to meet with a US based client to negotiate a contract or finalize a transaction. I've utilized a number of different visas over the years (including B-1) and quickly figured-out that saying "I'll be working here for a while" is not the right response.

Another one that gets people into bother (with VWP) is "I'm coming to stay with my US girl/boy friend".

[Vaud]

Matt Harper said:

I think this could be a very good example of the importance of semantics when dealing with CBP officials, whose remit is far more slanted toward keeping certain people out, versus letting certain people in.

The B-1 visa is intended for business visitors - and that description is very different to the concept of 'working'. The second you mention the "W" word, you better be damn sure you have an employment based visa, a green card or a US passport to back it up. It is my experience that some CBP officials are more human than others, saying things like, "Would you like to re-phrase that for me?"

A good explanation when using a B-1 would be - visiting US colleagues for the purpose of training, education or evaluation - attending a conference, exhibition or "business meeting" - visiting to meet with a US based client to negotiate a contract or finalize a transaction. I've utilized a number of different visas over the years (including B-1) and quickly figured-out that saying "I'll be working here for a while" is not the right response.

Another one that gets people into bother (with VWP) is "I'm coming to stay with my US girl/boy friend".

Well put.

[Newky Brown]

Indeed. I'd intended to say I was there for 6 weeks but blurted out 6 months and it went downhill from there.

[King Herald]

Newky Brown said:

The US immigration are a funny lot, some times they would say 'I know this is bullst but I'm going to have to send you for an interview" others wouldn't even talk to you and looked at you liked you'd murdered their firstborn whilst summoning an escort to take you through.

I get the impression that all those types, immigration, customs, TSA etc couldn’t hack getting into the military or the police, and bullying people at the airport is about as close as they can ever get to it.

[scott15]

Thanks everyone who replied to my question.

I know about the point system. I think if I worked towards the qualifications to get the points to live in one of these countries, I'd then lose the points for my age.. Which could potentially put me behind again.

As has been said I think Canada and NZ are my best choices. NZ as far as I have heard is harder to get jobs, whilst Canada is a colder climate than what I was hoping for I think that I will have to go for the work permit for one of the two and go with it.

I'm a hard worker (and i'd say I'm a smart worker which is even better). So I don't think actually getting the chance to stay would be too hard depending on the employer.

Camp America seemed like a good idea, however I'm not sure how much chance you would get with regards to being sponsored to stay, probably very little to none.

Also just to add, by no qualifications I mean none after GCSE level. I have 11 C grade GCSE’s.

Edited by scott15 on Sunday 21st January 22:39

[RobDickinson]

The employment levels here in nz are pretty high, there's always temporary farm/fruit /seasonal tourism work around.

[wisbech]

it Is relatively easy to work as illegal immigrant in the US - a lot of cash in hand work (restaurants/ agriculture/ unskilled construction etc). Problem is the pay is poor, no health insurance or workplace regulation and if you get caught it is no fun.

[dvs_dave]

I was born an expat (MOD brat) so being an expat has always felt normal to me. So much so I’ve only spent on aggregate about 20% of my life actually living/studying/working in the UK (I’m late 30’s).

The place I was born and places I grew up, the communities no longer exist (MOD Germany). Not really being from anywhere other than “the UK”, and where you called “home” for so many years just no longer being in existence is an odd feeling.

Anyway, I’ve lived the expat life in Germany, Austria, UAE, Iraq, Kuwait, Djibouti, and am now living in the USA. I have a family here so it’s definitely the most “home” I’ve got. We’re very fortunate as my wife is a US & NZ citizen so I have a green card, and we can also do NZ if we want. And of course through my UK citizenship can do the UK and possibly Europe depending on Brexit.

My extensive experience of being an expat has bestowed me with an outlook on things that is generally a pretty valuable asset to companies wanting to do cross border business/projects. It does help that I can back that up with some reasonably high academic qualifications and some very unique professional experiences.

So far the US has treated us very well and we have a standard of living considerably higher than I could ever have hoped for in the UK. Missing regular physical contact with family and friends from “back home” is the biggest downside to “expatting” and is something that you mustn’t underestimate. If you’ve not really been away before, this can really ruin things if you can’t handle it. Many an expat has thrown in the towel because of this. But with modern communications and the increasing ease of long distance travel, that downside is ever being eroded.

In short, there is NO place that’s perfect for you, or anyone for that matter. Moving to a different country/culture is a fabulous experience and it’s nothing that you will EVER regret. But in the cold light of day, the reality of it all is that you just exchange one set of problems for another set of problems. You just have to decide which problems you would rather have at your current stage in life, and then if you can, move on when that particular predicament no longer suits. That infographic posted earlier is 100% on the money.

[dvs_dave]

wisbech said:

it Is relatively easy to work as illegal immigrant in the US - a lot of cash in hand work (restaurants/ agriculture/ unskilled construction etc). Problem is the pay is poor, no health insurance or workplace regulation and if you get caught it is no fun.

That may be so, but that is some extremely bad advice to be suggesting as a possibility. You basically will end up getting caught one way or another and at best will never be allowed to return.

Case in point!

Edited by dvs_dave on Monday 22 January 16:36

[PomBstard]

I can also vouch for the Working Holiday VISA for Aus, and it’s a good way to get a proper flavour of the place.

However one thought for you is to get a job with a global company and transfer with them. I used to work for one of the big engineering consultancies and moving staff around the globe was a day to day activity for most offices. I recruited plenty into the Sydney office from UK, US and UAE. One of my friends here started in London, transferred to a project in New York for 6 months, which turned into 2 years. Then went to their San Fran office for a couple of years before transferring to Sydney. Good way to spend your 20s...

[IanRubie]

I work from home for a UK based company. The only tools I need for my job are a computer and an internet connection. Where does this stand with work permits when visiting different countries? Technically I'm not taking a job from a local and I will be contributing to the local economy with my spending. Does that logic work with immigration officials?

[Vaud]

IanRubie said:

I work from home for a UK based company. The only tools I need for my job are a computer and an internet connection. Where does this stand with work permits when visiting different countries? Technically I'm not taking a job from a local and I will be contributing to the local economy with my spending. Does that logic work with immigration officials?

In the EU, yes (for now)

Elsewhere it varies massively. If you aren't being paid locally then you aren't being taxed directly, so you aren't contributing to the infrastructure, etc...

For 3 months once a year to a developed country like the US you would probably be fine if you say you are on holiday and there for winter sun, can evidence funds, rental address, etc. Longer term, no it won't wash.

Somewhere like Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, I'd look carefully and ensure I had good insurance.

[Vaud]

dvs_dave said:

wisbech said:

it Is relatively easy to work as illegal immigrant in the US - a lot of cash in hand work (restaurants/ agriculture/ unskilled construction etc). Problem is the pay is poor, no health insurance or workplace regulation and if you get caught it is no fun.

That may be so, but that is some extremely bad advice to be suggesting as a possibility. You basically will end up getting caught one way or another and at best will never be allowed to return.

I didn't read it is as advice, more a statement that it was possible but has huge risks attached (which it does).

[RDMcG]

Seven countries starting in
Ireland where I was born. Final stop was Canada and no regrets at all. Great career opportunities and climate never bothered me . I did make a decision that I would never move back but gradually lost the desire to.

Worth a try. Changes your perspective on your native country too.

[Matt Harper]

dvs_dave said:

wisbech said:

it Is relatively easy to work as illegal immigrant in the US - a lot of cash in hand work (restaurants/ agriculture/ unskilled construction etc). Problem is the pay is poor, no health insurance or workplace regulation and if you get caught it is no fun.

That may be so, but that is some extremely bad advice to be suggesting as a possibility. You basically will end up getting caught one way or another and at best will never be allowed to return.

... and the thought of existing here on minimum wage is just horrendous. Couple that with no driving license, dealing in cash only (for everything) and only being able to work for and rent from people who are as bent as you are.

The penalties for employing illegal immigrants varies from state to state - which is ridiculous. The sad truth is that some politicians rely of the illegal votes cast by illegal aliens to stay in office, consequently, they tend to be a little softer on the issue (sanctuary cities, preventing law enforcement from establishing residency status, refusal to deport - sometimes dangerous criminals etc, etc.)

[XJSJohn]

zubzob said:

IanRubie said:

I work from home for a UK based company. The only tools I need for my job are a computer and an internet connection. Where does this stand with work permits when visiting different countries? Technically I'm not taking a job from a local and I will be contributing to the local economy with my spending. Does that logic work with immigration officials?

Technically not allowed. But if you otherwise spend, behave and exit the country like a tourist, it is very low priority and not actively investigated unless you shove it in their face. I personally would avoid mentioning it.

Edited by zubzob on Monday 22 January 11:36

this is the whole "digital nomad" thing that is starting to cause all sorts of problems in Asia.

Many co-working spaces set up in Chang Mai, Phuket, Koh Samui, Bali and Lombok for just these sort of people to "work" in a friendly social environment ..... Immigration plod love it as its an easy way to round up a host of people "illegally working" and make their months stats look good.

Its definitely a grey area .......

[anonymous-user]

I moved to Poland with work when the company i worked for decided to relocate. (I was 21 at the time) Best decision I ever made as it forced me to grow up a lot and learn a lot about myself. 3 years later I moved to Australia on a 457 visa. Decent executive job but felt a little isolated and missed driving fast Stayed for 3 years and worked my way up the ranks. Moved back to Poland for a year (well it was supposed to be) whilst I set up my own business in the field that I work in. Met my (Now wife) on my first day back and have been here for another 6 years.

Its starting to grate a little bit as things have changed a lot for the worst but living here on a decent Australian Salary means we can save a lot and not have to worry too much,

Building a 200m2 house without borrowing albeit very slowly (Wifes parents gave us 3000m2 of land) thus skipping this idiotic property ladder thing the UK is obsessed with. (Tried to explain how it works to my wife and she just laughed)

I do miss the UK and really miss how pretty much everything "just works" The DVLA seem like the epitome of efficiency compared to government organisations in this part of the world. British customer service seems excellent compared to the attitude/contempt shops and suppliers have towards customers here. Driving here is stressful, Trying to get anything done in the business sense is hard however the long summers, May - September of 25c+ weather make up for it, Proximity to Italy, Croatia, Balkans without needing a ferry are certainly a big plus.

Expat life isn't all great and as mentioned the lack of contact with family/friends is hard but I now have a new family and new friends and seem my parents every 3 months and friends in the UK about the same so its not all bad. + When you do meet them its "quality time".