Opting out of fatherhood
Discussion
desolate said:
Bill said:
That's nonsense. What would be unfair (on the child) would be allowing the man to run away from his financial responsibilities.
Once the pregnancy is happening it is rightly entirely down to the person who is carrying the child. How can the man have any choice in that? He can have influence, assuming he has any sort of relationship with the mother.
Bear in mind, in the balance of fairness the mother is giving up far more than a bit of cash.
I think what they are saying is that it is fundamentally unfair that the man can't elect to have an abortion thus ending any parental responsibility. Once the pregnancy is happening it is rightly entirely down to the person who is carrying the child. How can the man have any choice in that? He can have influence, assuming he has any sort of relationship with the mother.
Bear in mind, in the balance of fairness the mother is giving up far more than a bit of cash.
I don't see that at being unfair at all. Obviously some people do.
singlecoil said:
No, that is NOT what I'm saying. I can see why anyone who thought that that was what I was saying would fail to understand it.
What did you mean by this then?"The woman has the choice to continue it or to terminate it. The man has no such choice. In a society that professes to treat people equally regardless of race, gender etc this is manifestly unfair."
Let's try an analogy. Let's say two people decide to go to the zoo as long as it is not raining. But it turns out that it is raining on the day. One of those people (Person A) decides they are going anyway. I say A should not be able to force B to go if B, having thought about it, decides they don't want to. The fairest thing would be for A to go on their own, and B to have a choice as to whether they go as well.
singlecoil said:
Let's try an analogy. Let's say two people decide to go to the zoo as long as it is not raining. But it turns out that it is raining on the day. One of those people (Person A) decides they are going anyway. I say A should not be able to force B to go if B, having thought about it, decides they don't want to. The fairest thing would be for A to go on their own, and B to have a choice as to whether they go as well.
You are comparing the fundamentals of existence to a jolly day out.Edit: and how is my earlier post incorrect?
desolate said:
singlecoil said:
Let's try an analogy. Let's say two people decide to go to the zoo as long as it is not raining. But it turns out that it is raining on the day. One of those people (Person A) decides they are going anyway. I say A should not be able to force B to go if B, having thought about it, decides they don't want to. The fairest thing would be for A to go on their own, and B to have a choice as to whether they go as well.
You are comparing the fundamentals of existence to a jolly day out.desolate said:
Edit: and how is my earlier post incorrect?
Which post? (If you quote something in reply, please include the context).desolate said:
then send a few quid every month for 18 years.
I just popped over to the gov.co.uk child maintenance calculator...In my circumstance if my girlfriend gets pregnant and decides to keep it I'm looking at total maintenance for 18 years coming in at around 170k.
If you think that's only a few quid then can I have some money please....
Women have choices and men have responsibilities after those choices. It was ever thus. Who'd have thought it?
Good friends of mine fell pregnant many years ago. The girl decided that she wasn't ready for a child, the guy was over the moon. Guess what? No child! Subsequently it was discovered that she could no longer carry a baby due to the procedure. Do you think they are still together?
The guy is now a doting father of two beautiful kids whilst she is a bitter and shrivelled harridan.
Be careful what you wish for.
Good friends of mine fell pregnant many years ago. The girl decided that she wasn't ready for a child, the guy was over the moon. Guess what? No child! Subsequently it was discovered that she could no longer carry a baby due to the procedure. Do you think they are still together?
The guy is now a doting father of two beautiful kids whilst she is a bitter and shrivelled harridan.
Be careful what you wish for.
HughiusMaximus said:
I just popped over to the gov.co.uk child maintenance calculator...
In my circumstance if my girlfriend gets pregnant and decides to keep it I'm looking at total maintenance for 18 years coming in at around 170k.
If you think that's only a few quid then can I have some money please....
Best double bag then.In my circumstance if my girlfriend gets pregnant and decides to keep it I'm looking at total maintenance for 18 years coming in at around 170k.
If you think that's only a few quid then can I have some money please....
singlecoil said:
The unfairness can be illustrated this way-
Two people indulge in consensual sexual intercourse and prior to this they agree that neither wants children. Contraception is therefore used and on one occasion fails. Both parties are aware that a pregnancy has arisen and have a chance to think about it. The woman has the choice to continue it or to terminate it. The man has no such choice. In a society that professes to treat people equally regardless of race, gender etc this is manifestly unfair.
They agree neither wants a child but both engage in activity that might produce one, accepting the risk it might happen. Both have to deal with the consequences of their choices. Two people indulge in consensual sexual intercourse and prior to this they agree that neither wants children. Contraception is therefore used and on one occasion fails. Both parties are aware that a pregnancy has arisen and have a chance to think about it. The woman has the choice to continue it or to terminate it. The man has no such choice. In a society that professes to treat people equally regardless of race, gender etc this is manifestly unfair.
Seems pretty fair.
gregs656 said:
singlecoil said:
The unfairness can be illustrated this way-
Two people indulge in consensual sexual intercourse and prior to this they agree that neither wants children. Contraception is therefore used and on one occasion fails. Both parties are aware that a pregnancy has arisen and have a chance to think about it. The woman has the choice to continue it or to terminate it. The man has no such choice. In a society that professes to treat people equally regardless of race, gender etc this is manifestly unfair.
They agree neither wants a child but both engage in activity that might produce one, accepting the risk it might happen. Both have to deal with the consequences of their choices. Two people indulge in consensual sexual intercourse and prior to this they agree that neither wants children. Contraception is therefore used and on one occasion fails. Both parties are aware that a pregnancy has arisen and have a chance to think about it. The woman has the choice to continue it or to terminate it. The man has no such choice. In a society that professes to treat people equally regardless of race, gender etc this is manifestly unfair.
Seems pretty fair.
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