Prison?

[Algarve]

AndStilliRise said:

Ted2, bit harsh. He did say that they thought they were smarter than the plod and SOCA. Compliancy does bring in errors into all process.

I think his post is spot on... I was thinking exactly the same but sort of hard to write it all without either sounding condescending or gloating.

The guy *knew* he was under surveillance and then seemed to try his hardest from that point to get himself busted, and take everyone else down with him. That wasn't loyalty... it was stupidity.

Yes you might think you have the upper hand over the police, Soca, etc but once you actually have proof you're under surveillance the game is up. The chance of you 'winning' at that point must be < 1%... you'd need to be truly delusional or a fool to think otherwise...

You might be likely to get away with any individual crime but once the cops know its you and are putting resources on you to that level its time to either quit or lay low for so long that they can't afford to keep spending those resources on you for no return.

[Monkeylegend]

Well it's usually the stupid/less smart criminals who get caught

[TheJimi]

Apropos of nothing but something I've learnt to do is trust my instincts and gut feelings.

I've been bitten a couple of times by not paying heed to those feelings over the past few years, and going against my instincts just isn't something I do any more.

Nothing crime related or opsec (!) though.

[Ted2]

Algarve said:

I think his post is spot on... I was thinking exactly the same but sort of hard to write it all without either sounding condescending or gloating.

The guy *knew* he was under surveillance and then seemed to try his hardest from that point to get himself busted, and take everyone else down with him. That wasn't loyalty... it was stupidity.

Yes you might think you have the upper hand over the police, Soca, etc but once you actually have proof you're under surveillance the game is up. The chance of you 'winning' at that point must be < 1%... you'd need to be truly delusional or a fool to think otherwise...

You might be likely to get away with any individual crime but once the cops know its you and are putting resources on you to that level its time to either quit or lay low for so long that they can't afford to keep spending those resources on you for no return.

This ^^^. Sums it up in less words.

I just don't get why after being followed around pubs, supermarkets and chased up and down the motorway to Manchester he merely brushed it off as nothing to be concerned about and carried on as normal.

I still can't get my head around his argument that he HAD to stop at the RV because "the guy was already stood there waiting" and "we'd run short on supply" despite having a black Audi, red Alfa and bunch of BMWs in tow. At what point in your thought process do you conclude this is the best idea rather than simply turning your car around and going back home? Even if you don't think quickly enough to go home, surely you'd just continue driving past the RV in the hope that the other guy notices you and the long line of LE following you, realises something's up and can get the hell out of there? How long would it have taken to key the three letters BHD on your phone whilst driving and sent it to all your associates? 5 seconds, tops.

It just boggles the mind. Did he think that the fridge receipt would save him? LE pull up and check it out : "Ah, just a new fridge then Sir? Oh, wait, what's this? 40kg of coke huh? Yeah, that's fine lads, be on your way, sorry for troubling you".

WindyCommon said:

“LE”...?

LE = Law Enforcement
RV = Rendezvous point
OPSEC = Operation security aka ensuring your arse and trail are well and truly covered!

[antspants]

E24man said:

As another small aside, your description of the 'why' you got into this business, by your own admission as a person who was fed up with 'poor sevice, poor quality and high prices', leads me to ask how long in the making was your transformation from fed up user to succesful distributor? When did you start taking the drugs you came to distribute and how long was it before your group was then distributing them yourselves?

I interpreted this as a number of smaller independent dealers "fed up with..." banding together to become a larger scale distributor with greater purchasing power, rather than drug user to distributor.

[Ayahuasca]

E24man said:

When did you start taking the drugs you came to distribute

What about 'Never get high on your own supply' ?

[Ganglandboss]

Ayahuasca said:

What about 'Never get high on your own supply' ?

[vikingaero]

Taita said:

Ayahuasca said:

How many ounces of tobacco did you manage to accumulate?

Did you go from 10 a day to 30?

You're both jealous of my astounding skin complexion, no-floss teeth, muscular jaw definition and merkin collection in assorted colours.

[vikingaero]

Monkeylegend said:

Well it's usually the stupid/less smart criminals who get caught

Not necessarily true. If you commit a crime long and often enough, you increase your chances of being caught. For example someone who brazenly shoplifts might get caught on their first offence, yet someone who is clever may not get caught until their 100th offence. The fact is that they have both been caught and are now known to all and sundry.

The length of time aspect is key. Most drug dealers get caught because they do it for too long. The lifestyle gets them: Wife wants a new Chanel handbag - OK I'll do another run. Audi launch a new RS99. OK - I'll do a couple of runs. Kids want to go on a holiday - OK - I'll do one more run. Dealers always think about jacking it in but they rarely do. Down to their last couple of grand? Do another run. Oh st that trusted guy I dealt with 3 times is Old Bill.

[Ari]

Ted2 said:

Algarve said:

I think his post is spot on... I was thinking exactly the same but sort of hard to write it all without either sounding condescending or gloating.

The guy *knew* he was under surveillance and then seemed to try his hardest from that point to get himself busted, and take everyone else down with him. That wasn't loyalty... it was stupidity.

Yes you might think you have the upper hand over the police, Soca, etc but once you actually have proof you're under surveillance the game is up. The chance of you 'winning' at that point must be < 1%... you'd need to be truly delusional or a fool to think otherwise...

You might be likely to get away with any individual crime but once the cops know its you and are putting resources on you to that level its time to either quit or lay low for so long that they can't afford to keep spending those resources on you for no return.

This ^^^. Sums it up in less words.

I just don't get why after being followed around pubs, supermarkets and chased up and down the motorway to Manchester he merely brushed it off as nothing to be concerned about and carried on as normal.

I still can't get my head around his argument that he HAD to stop at the RV because "the guy was already stood there waiting" and "we'd run short on supply" despite having a black Audi, red Alfa and bunch of BMWs in tow. At what point in your thought process do you conclude this is the best idea rather than simply turning your car around and going back home? Even if you don't think quickly enough to go home, surely you'd just continue driving past the RV in the hope that the other guy notices you and the long line of LE following you, realises something's up and can get the hell out of there? How long would it have taken to key the three letters BHD on your phone whilst driving and sent it to all your associates? 5 seconds, tops.

It just boggles the mind. Did he think that the fridge receipt would save him? LE pull up and check it out : "Ah, just a new fridge then Sir? Oh, wait, what's this? 40kg of coke huh? Yeah, that's fine lads, be on your way, sorry for troubling you".

WindyCommon said:

“LE”...?

LE = Law Enforcement
RV = Rendezvous point
OPSEC = Operation security aka ensuring your arse and trail are well and truly covered!

To be fair, whoever is writing these is always going to retell it in a way that makes him sound a bit less of a twunt, it's human nature. A bit like 10 Pence Short and his miraculous bouncy rubber clown car.

The interesting bit is what happened in prison and it's made (and I hope continues to make) compelling reading for those of us (I hope!) who will never experience it.

[Algarve]

Ari said:

To be fair, whoever is writing these is always going to retell it in a way that makes him sound a bit less of a twunt, it's human nature. A bit like 10 Pence Short and his miraculous bouncy rubber clown car.

The interesting bit is what happened in prison and it's made (and I hope continues to make) compelling reading for those of us (I hope!) who will never experience it.

But when the rest of the story is full of obvious exaggerations/lies/delusions how can you trust the rest of it?

You may as well just go grab a book from the fiction section at the library.

"I've got great Opsec" ... then goes on to detail how he tried his hardest to get busted, and actually got some other people arrested who were going to get away with it completely if it wasn't for his delusion/arrogance/stupidity...

The stuff about mobile phone masts is just complete fiction.

I realise he wants to pretend he's Tony Montana, but he's coming across more Homer Simpson.

[zarjaz1991]

Why is everyone suddenly using stupid gangster terms like LE? This isn't an American movie, and you're not having to disguise your posts from the authorities.

Any minute now someone will mention "the Feds".

TVRM's story is interesting, but all this "look how much I know about the criminal underworld" willy-waving from others is getting tedious.

[Bobberoo99]

zarjaz1991 said:

Why is everyone suddenly using stupid gangster terms like LE? This isn't an American movie, and you're not having to disguise your posts from the authorities.

Any minute now someone will mention "the Feds".

TVRM's story is interesting, but all this "look how much I know about the criminal underworld" willy-waving from others is getting tedious.

Well said, still enjoying TVRM's tales, so can we stop with the character assassination and get back to reading his tale please?

[Monkeylegend]

zarjaz1991 said:

TVRM's story is interesting, but all this "look how much I know about the criminal underworld" willy-waving from others is getting tedious.

It's not willy waving as you put it, it's adding a bit of balance to this thread and we should welcome alternative viewpoints even if they don't fit with your rose tinted

Sort of counter willy waving if you want to use that expression

[anothernameitist]

Well that's 82 pages gone through.

I never wanted to go in to prison and after reading 10ps' account see how easy it is to dick around and get banged up.

TVR - can see how all you dealings ended up getting you banged up, I'm not judging, st happens.

So I've been in prison twice Wymott ( CAT A) at the time and Kirkham ( Open)

both visits put me off getting banged up, not that I wanted to be there anyway

What was I doing inside then, working as a contractor.

Ironically last night I was in the pub, joking with one of the older guys about viagra, he knows I buy and sell machinery, he wants viagra by prescription to sell on and thought I might be able to help him.

No was the answer ,TVR came to mind and also the fact I'd be defrauding the NHS too didn't sit too good with me, I'm not perfect but kind of know the boundriers.

To TVR,
Thanks for the whole insight
To others
Keep safe boys and girls

[Ari]

Algarve said:

But when the rest of the story is full of obvious exaggerations/lies/delusions how can you trust the rest of it?

You may as well just go grab a book from the fiction section at the library.

"I've got great Opsec" ... then goes on to detail how he tried his hardest to get busted, and actually got some other people arrested who were going to get away with it completely if it wasn't for his delusion/arrogance/stupidity...

The stuff about mobile phone masts is just complete fiction.

I realise he wants to pretend he's Tony Montana, but he's coming across more Homer Simpson.

Fair comment, but like pretty much everything on the Internet, you have to take a view. Does the story about getting caught ring true? Mostly, but like you say, if you'd really spotted all those cars and people following you then obviously you'd bail rather than carry on so perhaps a fair assumption that there's been a slightly selective history/memory rewrite there (maybe after he got caught he suddenly realised 'ahh, that's why the same BMW was always behind me' which got rewritten in his mind to 'I knew it all along really, I spotted that BMW following me'.

Taking anything as gospel on the Internet is probably unwise - bad for OPSEC you know...

[Ki3r]

Very interesting to read.

TVR...did you ever have a goal? Similar to Layer Cake he wanted to make xzy and then get out of the business. Did you have something similar in mind?

[Ted2]

zarjaz1991 said:

Why is everyone suddenly using stupid gangster terms like LE? This isn't an American movie, and you're not having to disguise your posts from the authorities.

I don't know what gangster American movies you've been watching, nor do I care, but LE is a universally known and used abbreviation for the police / law enforcement. The fact that you've never come across it before living in your little bubble and need it translating for you is not my problem.

As you were.

[Ted2]

Ari said:

Fair comment, but like pretty much everything on the Internet, you have to take a view. Does the story about getting caught ring true? Mostly, but like you say, if you'd really spotted all those cars and people following you then obviously you'd bail rather than carry on so perhaps a fair assumption that there's been a slightly selective history/memory rewrite there (maybe after he got caught he suddenly realised 'ahh, that's why the same BMW was always behind me' which got rewritten in his mind to 'I knew it all along really, I spotted that BMW following me'.

Taking anything as gospel on the Internet is probably unwise - bad for OPSEC you know...

Ref the bold, if you're thinking properly, yes. But when you've been doing it for some time and never had any problems it's very easy to become complacent and you start to believe what you do is normal and that no-one really cares. When that happens you get careless, make mistakes and don't ensure your tracks are covered properly, and that's what nearly always leads to your downfall. Keeping your guard up 24/7 is mentally exhausting.

[Ayahuasca]

Ted2 said:

zarjaz1991 said:

Why is everyone suddenly using stupid gangster terms like LE? This isn't an American movie, and you're not having to disguise your posts from the authorities.

I don't know what gangster American movies you've been watching, nor do I care, but LE is a universally known and used abbreviation for the police / law enforcement. The fact that you've never come across it before living in your little bubble and need it translating for you is not my problem.

As you were.

You are a couple of ponces mincing about talking rubbish. Do you want to get involved? Do you want to get involved in this world? Nightclub owners in Leicester Square who get garrotted, ammonia in the boat? Because if you want to get involved I'll get you involved, son. You want to get sucked in, I'll suck you in. I'll suck you in so far you'll get blown out the other side. And wipe that soppy look of your gormless face. You want to get sucked in?