Cashless society ?
Discussion
It doesn't need anything to be done. Cash is gradually dying anyway and modern technology covers most requirements already. Any objection seems to be in the mind rather than a practical issue. It's inevitable that an increasing number of businesses will start refusing cash as the volumes reduce - the banking and collection charges are something they need to lose asap.
Robertj21a said:
It doesn't need anything to be done. Cash is gradually dying anyway and modern technology covers most requirements already. Any objection seems to be in the mind rather than a practical issue. It's inevitable that an increasing number of businesses will start refusing cash as the volumes reduce - the banking and collection charges are something they need to lose asap.
YupAll that’ll happen is that as cash becomes less and less popular the handling charges will increase and the availability of places to pay in will drop.
Small scale charities etc who had it free in the past will then have to pay and surprise surprise cash will be the more expensive, slower, generally less convenient option.
Also keep in mind that any new bank branches being opened tend to be digital only.
Oilchange said:
I suspect there is an argument that if payment for a service (in cash) is refused on the grounds they don't take cash (legal tender), the person can walk as having made a reasonable attempt to settle the debt.
Any lawyers care to comment?
I'm not a lawyer but I thought you were only offering to sell, on your terms. Cash, or not, shouldn't come in to it.Any lawyers care to comment?
Oilchange said:
I suspect there is an argument that if payment for a service (in cash) is refused on the grounds they don't take cash (legal tender), the person can walk as having made a reasonable attempt to settle the debt.
Any lawyers care to comment?
Legal tender is solely for the guaranteed settlement of debts and does not affect any party's right of refusal of service in any transaction. Any lawyers care to comment?
Oilchange said:
Any lawyers care to comment?
You still have to pay. HTHOne thing that did strike me though is there are many "lower paid" (I say this because that is my assumption I may be wrong) people such as hairdressers and waiter staff - they need cash tips - especially when some places take the tip and do not give it to the staff. I have to make sure when going out for dinner that I have some cash for a tip - and as I said above, the scramble to find a few quid for the pizza/Chinese delivery etc these days as I hardly use cash.
craigjm said:
Oilchange said:
I suspect there is an argument that if payment for a service (in cash) is refused on the grounds they don't take cash (legal tender), the person can walk as having made a reasonable attempt to settle the debt.
Any lawyers care to comment?
Legal tender is solely for the guaranteed settlement of debts and does not affect any party's right of refusal of service in any transaction. Any lawyers care to comment?
What I meant (and didn’t make clear) was that if I wanted to settle a debt (council tax perhaps?) with legal tender and it was refused, what recourse would I have if payment was refused on account of it being cash?
technodup said:
Kermit power said:
bristolracer said:
How are children going to shop? Not every child has an iPhone to spend money on.
Mine had savings accounts up to the age of 10, then an account with a debit card that doesn't allow them to go overdrawn from the age of 11 onwards. No iPhone required.I live in one of the (recently turned) w
ky bits of Glasgow that has at least one cashless bar. Frequented by hipster tossers, drinking their craft spirits and alternative brand cola. I suspect if you went to a flat roof in Easterhouse and declared 'no cash' you'd be on the end of a chibbing.As usual the PH reality and actual reality are somewhat different.
Whatever way you look at it, the number of people who can't get a bank account for some sort of truly insurmountable reason is absolutely tiny.
Edited by Kermit power on Sunday 14th April 19:09
Algarve said:
I think if we were forced into going cashless, the black market economy would just switch over to dollars or euros and continue as normal.
How are people in said economy going to get their hands on these dollars and euros in the first place, and then convert them back to Sterling to spend in shops here, especially if all transactions into/out of Sterling are trackable?Randy Winkman said:
On a lighter note it was a bit annoying when 20 of us went out for a work Christmas dinner and needed a whip-round at the end because whilst we'd already paid in for the food the drinks had come to more than expected. All 3 of the people in their early 20s pointed out they didn't even have a tenner on them and asked to pay by card. How do you pay into a pub whip by card?
I don't think that's an age-specific thing, is it? I'm close to fifty, and wouldn't have had cash on me either.magooagain said:
I think the cashless and the cash systems work ok along side each other,it's nice to have a choice.
Why take away one or the other?
I use a few different payment methods, all-though not cashless, and get by fine.
You might get by fine as the consumer. If you're a business who has to handle the cash, it can be a right pain in the backside!Why take away one or the other?
I use a few different payment methods, all-though not cashless, and get by fine.
At one end of the scale, consider somewhere a football stadium seating, say, 40,000 people. If they decided to all spend cash for food, drinks, programmes and the like whilst they're there, the club could easily have to move a million or more every match day! It all requires counting and sorting, transporting to a bank, they need to make sure they've got the right float to begin with, more serving staff and more till points because transactions are quite a bit slower when people are counting out cash in both directions. Alternatively, they can just announce that they're no longer accepting any cash, and all that goes away.
At the other end of the scale, what if you're a rural shop or pub? Your nearest bank could easily be an hour's round trip or more. Why would you want the pain of having to take cash to the bank if you can just take card payments only?
Antony Moxey said:
NRS said:
Randy Winkman said:
Sweden has been aiming to be cashless by 2023 but there is some concern it's going too fast for some people. For many of the reasons set out in this thread.
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/11/691334123/swedens-c...
On a lighter note it was a bit annoying when 20 of us went out for a work Christmas dinner and needed a whip-round at the end because whilst we'd already paid in for the food the drinks had come to more than expected. All 3 of the people in their early 20s pointed out they didn't even have a tenner on them and asked to pay by card. How do you pay into a pub whip by card?
One person pays, the rest use an App on the phone (Vipps here in Norway) to transfer the money to them. Much easier than trying to sort out change, and who has paid, who gets different amounts back too.https://www.npr.org/2019/02/11/691334123/swedens-c...
On a lighter note it was a bit annoying when 20 of us went out for a work Christmas dinner and needed a whip-round at the end because whilst we'd already paid in for the food the drinks had come to more than expected. All 3 of the people in their early 20s pointed out they didn't even have a tenner on them and asked to pay by card. How do you pay into a pub whip by card?
The RNLI have tried tap and go boxes but it failed pretty badly in the trial so we are still cash collectors, we can have a portable machine for events where merchandise is sold but for now we are stuck with cash.
One thing that I love is that when I started if we got a £5 note it was a huge deal where now we see many and although in my eyes it is still a major donation it is not the shock it was back then!
People are very generous if they believe in the charity.
On a side note and related to PH is that one of the Ferrari's that was donated to the RNLI and auctioned, turned up at the station where the lifeboat that was named after the donator is housed recently
One thing that I love is that when I started if we got a £5 note it was a huge deal where now we see many and although in my eyes it is still a major donation it is not the shock it was back then!
People are very generous if they believe in the charity.
On a side note and related to PH is that one of the Ferrari's that was donated to the RNLI and auctioned, turned up at the station where the lifeboat that was named after the donator is housed recently
Kermit power said:
According to [ur]research by anti-poverty charity Toynbee Hall|https://financialhealthexchange.org.uk/news/a-third-of-people-without-bank-accounts-in-the-uk-say-its-a-preference/[/url] only 27% of those are cash only, with the remainder using a Post Office Current Account, Credit Union or other form of financial facility. They also say that 76% of people in their research didn't have a bank account because they chose not to, because they didn't think they had the right identification to get one or because they'd had a bad experience in the past.
Whatever way you look at it, the number of people who can't get a bank account for some sort of truly insurmountable reason is absolutely tiny.
I used to work for a bank so I know the routine, the whole 'basic account' was designed for those people, without overdraft etc, basically to pay benefits into. It's not that people can't, it's just that they don't want to. And why should they just to satisfy the government, businesses and PH metropolitan types who can't understand it?Whatever way you look at it, the number of people who can't get a bank account for some sort of truly insurmountable reason is absolutely tiny.
Driver101 said:
I just read that and came here to link it.....".discrimination"......LOL....
technodup said:
used to work for a bank so I know the routine, the whole 'basic account' was designed for those people, without overdraft etc, basically to pay benefits into. It's not that people can't, it's just that they don't want to. And why should they just to satisfy the government, businesses and PH metropolitan types who can't understand it?
If they don't want a bank account, that's up to them, but I don't see any reason why any business should be forced to accept cash just to pander to them?If there is anyone out there who truly, honestly, for whatever reason can't get a bank account, then I absolutely accept that cash should remain until arrangements have been made to ensure they can have a bank account.
Anyone who can get a bank account and chooses not to, tough s
t. They'll just have to accept that the number of things they won't be able to do is going to increase exponentially over the next few years.technodup said:
used to work for a bank so I know the routine, the whole 'basic account' was designed for those people, without overdraft etc, basically to pay benefits into. It's not that people can't, it's just that they don't want to. And why should they just to satisfy the government, businesses and PH metropolitan types who can't understand it?
Unless the objective is to keep a low profile off the "system" like a fugitive from justice or an illegal immigrant, why not open a bank account? Must make surviving in modern society incredibly difficult. Had my bank account since I was 17 
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