Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 5]
Discussion
Gladers01 said:
nessiemac said:
Clockwork Cupcake said:
eldar said:
I always seem to board a plane on the right, starboard, if you approach the plane, as usual, from the front.
Becomes port, once seated.
Unlike left and right, port and starboard never change depending on one's orientation. If you are facing the stern (back) then port is on your right, whereas if you face the bow (front) then port is on your left. Becomes port, once seated.
That's the whole point of port and starboard.
In other words, left and right are with respect to something (usually yourself) but port and starboard are always fixed to the ship (or plane in this case).
We don't really use port and starboard terminology.
We use a mix of left/right and numbers.
As in left main landing gear but number 1 brake unit for example.
Numbers are always as viewed as from the rear. On my aircraft, Airbus A320 family, we have left main landing gear with number 1 and 2 wheel and right main landing gear with number 3 and 4 wheel.
On a twin engine aircraft, number 1 engine is the left and number 2 the right.
We also use numbers for front to back or can be referred to as forward and aft.
Forward freight bay, aft freight bay etc.
The main forward entrance for PAX is door 1 left. The aft door on the right hand side would be door 2 right. This is on an Airbus A320.
Edited by nessiemac on Friday 15th March 12:35
From my sailing days I remember them as the Captain LEFT his RED wine back at PORT the opposite side would be RIGHT,GREEN and STARBOARD.
RizzoTheRat said:
My Mrs bought some LED arm bands at the running show a while back, I was impressed that when I commented she should have the left one on red rather than both on green she actually knew what I was talking about 
Yeah, apparently the US did not sign up to the standard due to the existing install base. h0b0 said:
That is until you get to America where it is the opposite.
WTF?Gladers01 said:
hidetheelephants said:
RizzoTheRat said:
h0b0 said:
That is until you get to America where it is the opposite.
WTF?
nessiemac said:
Gladers01 said:
hidetheelephants said:
RizzoTheRat said:
h0b0 said:
That is until you get to America where it is the opposite.
WTF?h0b0 said:
RizzoTheRat said:
My Mrs bought some LED arm bands at the running show a while back, I was impressed that when I commented she should have the left one on red rather than both on green she actually knew what I was talking about
Yeah, apparently the US did not sign up to the standard due to the existing install base. h0b0 said:
That is until you get to America where it is the opposite.
WTF?Granadier said:
h0b0 said:
RizzoTheRat said:
My Mrs bought some LED arm bands at the running show a while back, I was impressed that when I commented she should have the left one on red rather than both on green she actually knew what I was talking about
Yeah, apparently the US did not sign up to the standard due to the existing install base. h0b0 said:
That is until you get to America where it is the opposite.
WTF?No idea really.
Granadier said:
h0b0 said:
RizzoTheRat said:
My Mrs bought some LED arm bands at the running show a while back, I was impressed that when I commented she should have the left one on red rather than both on green she actually knew what I was talking about
Yeah, apparently the US did not sign up to the standard due to the existing install base. h0b0 said:
That is until you get to America where it is the opposite.
WTF?Granadier said:
So what happens with ships that sail from elsewhere in the world to/from America? Do they have to have both red and green lights on both sides, and switch to the green port / red starboard on reaching US waters?
No, the colours are fixed. All ships have the red to port and green to starboard. If you imagine looking at a ship approaching you compared to one moving away from you, they would appear to be on opposite sides.
hidetheelephants said:
Lights on vessels is the same everywhere, the difference is only with the arrangement of channel marker buoys.
Exactly so. It's whether they are oriented as "leaving" the harbour or "approaching" it. Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 15th March 15:34
Clockwork Cupcake said:
No, the colours are fixed. All ships have the red to port and green to starboard.
If you imagine looking at a ship approaching you compared to one moving away from you, they would appear to be on opposite sides.
/Pedant mode ON/If you imagine looking at a ship approaching you compared to one moving away from you, they would appear to be on opposite sides.
Not strictly true. If a vessel is moving away from you you would not see Red or Green lights only a White rear stern light
/Pedant mode OFF/
Abbott said:
/Pedant mode ON/
Not strictly true. If a vessel is moving away from you you would not see Red or Green lights only a White rear stern light
/Pedant mode OFF/
Oh yes, fair point. I forgot that the red and green lights don't have a 180° arc. Not strictly true. If a vessel is moving away from you you would not see Red or Green lights only a White rear stern light
/Pedant mode OFF/
In my defence, it's a good 25 years since I used to be on the water.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Granadier said:
So what happens with ships that sail from elsewhere in the world to/from America? Do they have to have both red and green lights on both sides, and switch to the green port / red starboard on reaching US waters?
No, the colours are fixed. All ships have the red to port and green to starboard. If you imagine looking at a ship approaching you compared to one moving away from you, they would appear to be on opposite sides.
hidetheelephants said:
Lights on vessels is the same everywhere, the difference is only with the arrangement of channel marker buoys.
Exactly so. It's whether they are oriented as "leaving" the harbour or "approaching" it. Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 15th March 15:34
The two conventions are IALA "A" and IALA "B".
IALA "A" provides that the starboard side of a channel is marked with a green lateral for a vessel entering the channel, in general 'with the direction of a flooding tide'. This is in force for the majority of the world.
IALA "B" as used in N&S America, Japan, Philippines and one or two other places provides that the green buoys are on the starboard side of a vessel leaving with the direction of an ebbing tide.
The relevant convention is clearly noted on every chart I've ever seen.
Between them they replaced more than 30 different national buoyage systems, and a good thing too because they just baffled everyone who went more than a few miles from home.
Fairly recently too. I can remember the adoption of IALA in the 70s (and of course people moaned about it at the time).
The same conventions cover other aids to navigation but those provisions are generally universal. Like Cardinal marks for instance, which are black and yellow
Error_404_Username_not_found said:
Umm.... yep, very close.
The two conventions are IALA "A" and IALA "B".
IALA "A" provides that the starboard side of a channel is marked with a green lateral for a vessel entering the channel, in general 'with the direction of a flooding tide'. This is in force for the majority of the world.
IALA "B" as used in N&S America, Japan, Philippines and one or two other places provides that the green buoys are on the starboard side of a vessel leaving with the direction of an ebbing tide.
The relevant convention is clearly noted on every chart I've ever seen.
Between them they replaced more than 30 different national buoyage systems, and a good thing too because they just baffled everyone who went more than a few miles from home.
Fairly recently too. I can remember the adoption of IALA in the 70s (and of course people moaned about it at the time).
The same conventions cover other aids to navigation but those provisions are generally universal. Like Cardinal marks for instance, which are black and yellow
And this is why I love PH and am still here after almost 23 years. The two conventions are IALA "A" and IALA "B".
IALA "A" provides that the starboard side of a channel is marked with a green lateral for a vessel entering the channel, in general 'with the direction of a flooding tide'. This is in force for the majority of the world.
IALA "B" as used in N&S America, Japan, Philippines and one or two other places provides that the green buoys are on the starboard side of a vessel leaving with the direction of an ebbing tide.
The relevant convention is clearly noted on every chart I've ever seen.
Between them they replaced more than 30 different national buoyage systems, and a good thing too because they just baffled everyone who went more than a few miles from home.
Fairly recently too. I can remember the adoption of IALA in the 70s (and of course people moaned about it at the time).
The same conventions cover other aids to navigation but those provisions are generally universal. Like Cardinal marks for instance, which are black and yellow
Thank you for the more accurate info.
Do the similar conventions apply, i.e. IALA A and B, on non tidal waters? It would make sense to do so for any length of river above tidal reaches, say by assuming the natural direction of flow = ebb in the regs.
Or does it all become a dog's breakfast of local rules. Thinking back the only non tidal waters I've ever navigated on were English canal system so that doesn't count. Locally on the Severn up near to the limits of navigation most of the signs and marks have been damaged by floods and not replaced in two years or so.
Can't recall which system is used when the rowing club marks out the course. Will have to take note later this year.
Or does it all become a dog's breakfast of local rules. Thinking back the only non tidal waters I've ever navigated on were English canal system so that doesn't count. Locally on the Severn up near to the limits of navigation most of the signs and marks have been damaged by floods and not replaced in two years or so.
Can't recall which system is used when the rowing club marks out the course. Will have to take note later this year.
FiF said:
Do the similar conventions apply, i.e. IALA A and B, on non tidal waters? It would make sense to do so for any length of river above tidal reaches, say by assuming the natural direction of flow = ebb in the regs.
Or does it all become a dog's breakfast of local rules. Thinking back the only non tidal waters I've ever navigated on were English canal system so that doesn't count. Locally on the Severn up near to the limits of navigation most of the signs and marks have been damaged by floods and not replaced in two years or so.
Can't recall which system is used when the rowing club marks out the course. Will have to take note later this year.
The leisure craft guide to the Caledonian Canal shows markers as though vessels are travelling north, port hand to the west and starboard to the east.Or does it all become a dog's breakfast of local rules. Thinking back the only non tidal waters I've ever navigated on were English canal system so that doesn't count. Locally on the Severn up near to the limits of navigation most of the signs and marks have been damaged by floods and not replaced in two years or so.
Can't recall which system is used when the rowing club marks out the course. Will have to take note later this year.
Abbott said:
captain_cynic said:
eldar said:
I always seem to board a plane on the right, starboard, if you approach the plane, as usual, from the front.
Becomes port, once seated.
This. I believe it's a throwback to the old sailing days where you dock to the left (port).Becomes port, once seated.
It's just become tradition. Realistically you can board or alight from either side but everything is set up for port. Also this separates passenger traffic from service traffic, so people servicing the aircraft can continue to do so from the right hand side of the aircraft without worrying about stray holidaymakers.
I love how simple maritime systems evolved, via binocs the
navigation lights on distant ships at night could tell
other ships their approximate heading.
Not just the position Red / Green lights, but the mast lights, one on the front mast, one on the back mast, the light on the front mast positioned lower [ I think ] than the light on the back mast.
By the position of the 4 lights a captain could tell if the ship was coming or going and in which direction.
Sadly some captains didn't pay as much attention as they should have, mis reading of navigation lights played an important part in the tragic sinking of the RMS Empress of Ireland.
navigation lights on distant ships at night could tell
other ships their approximate heading.
Not just the position Red / Green lights, but the mast lights, one on the front mast, one on the back mast, the light on the front mast positioned lower [ I think ] than the light on the back mast.
By the position of the 4 lights a captain could tell if the ship was coming or going and in which direction.
Sadly some captains didn't pay as much attention as they should have, mis reading of navigation lights played an important part in the tragic sinking of the RMS Empress of Ireland.
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