Travellers.......
Discussion
Robertj21a said:
You could be right. The increasing use of Facebook etc might be able to generate a significant backlash following any ridiculously blatant Traveller activities.
Whatever happened about that massive Traveller community that caused so many problems - somewhere Essex way ?
That would be dale farm , apparently the plague in bedfordshire is in part from there.Whatever happened about that massive Traveller community that caused so many problems - somewhere Essex way ?
To my mind, this:
FiF said:
As it's a Fail link we need to add the caveat "If true" but seriously, what the actusl F?
Police REFUSE to enter travellers' site over safety fears http://dailym.ai/2ArRRvz
and this:Police REFUSE to enter travellers' site over safety fears http://dailym.ai/2ArRRvz
jdw100 said:
Police refused to recover my friend’s quad bike (he’s a farmer and used it to drive round his various fields).
No microlight or drone required as it could be seen in an encampment from a public highway.
“Too much trouble” said the Police “just run it through your insurance”.
My friend took this higher up and was told that firearms officers would have to attend any recovery and it could cause serious issues. My friend said this is just ridiculous I’ll go in and get it myself - was told if he attempted to do so he would be arrested for breach of the peace, for his own protection.
and this:No microlight or drone required as it could be seen in an encampment from a public highway.
“Too much trouble” said the Police “just run it through your insurance”.
My friend took this higher up and was told that firearms officers would have to attend any recovery and it could cause serious issues. My friend said this is just ridiculous I’ll go in and get it myself - was told if he attempted to do so he would be arrested for breach of the peace, for his own protection.
NDA said:
Similar happened to a friend of mine who had his dog stolen. After searching, he found it and he could see the dog tied up to a caravan... but the Police did not want to enter the site. Eventually he met the 'gypsy liaison officer' who told him if he offered a reward, the dog might be found. He paid cash and got the dog back - the Police handled the cash.
and this:Tuvra said:
I know a chap who had a £12k Forklift nicked, it could be seen from the road in the gypo camp, Police refused to recover it but contacted the liaison officer, she said the b
d wanted £5k for it as it was "worth 7", in the end the chap I knew employed a security company who went in and forcefully recovered. Think it cost him about £2,500.
bds had a 9t dumper and machine bucket off me a few months back, £17,500 Insurance claim.
could well be examples of misconduct in public office - a serious crime triable only in the Crown Court and carrying a potential life sentence.d wanted £5k for it as it was "worth 7", in the end the chap I knew employed a security company who went in and forcefully recovered. Think it cost him about £2,500.b
ds had a 9t dumper and machine bucket off me a few months back, £17,500 Insurance claim.The elements of the offence are summarised in Attorney General's Reference No 3 of 2003 [2004] EWCA Crim 868. The offence is committed when:
1. A public officer acting as such (i.e. a police officer,
2. Wilfully neglects to perform his duty and/or wilfully misconducts himself,
3. To such a degree as to amount to an abuse of the public's trust in the office holder, and
4. Without reasonable excuse or justification.
Chapter and verse here: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/misconduct_in_p...
I would be collecting evidence, and bringing a private prosecution against individual police officers and the Chief Constable in person - crowdfunding as necessary.
Just sayin'...
Benjaminpalma said:
irocfan said:
WRT the above - try that & you'll likely find charges of racism levelled :-(
Why on earth would you? The charges would be brought against the police officer.There does need to be a cogent explanation though of why the police won't tackle them (other than when they turn up for an hour's rucking then sod off again - true story according to a currently-serving Met officer). A couple of years ago, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a Kent officer and watched a number of travs driving vehicles onto our village green (which is not a road, byway or other permissible route for vehicles). I asked him to go and nick them and he said "ah, but by the time I get over there, they might have driven away again". We're talking 150 yards away. He simply refused to do his duty. I had ridden past on my endure bike and stopped, so I said "right, but if I ride across there you'll nick me?". He just shrugged and avoided the question.
Is there a UK version of "dereliction of duty"? Genuine question.
CAPP0 said:
Is there a UK version of "dereliction of duty"? Genuine question.
No - that's a US legal concept. The offence of Misconduct in Public Office would probably cover this.In the case of R v Dytham [1979] QB 722, for example, a police officer was held to have been correctly convicted when he made no move to intervene during a disturbance in which a man was kicked to death.
techiedave said:
Benjaminpalma said:
theres some comedy gold in there
Uncle John said:
So..... a couple of weeks ago a young member of the travelling community killed himself in a car accident.
On Wednesday they laid him to rest at a local church with the funeral planned for the next day. The cheeky scamps had gathered and held up the local traffic. They were walking in the road banging on cars and waving West Ham flags. Quite intimidating, as this was witnessed first hand by my daughter driving back from work. The jam was a good couple of miles long too.
Yesterday thought I'd pop in to the local Wetherspoons (yeah I know council) on the way back from work. The pub was shut, with a notice saying they'd be closed for the next two days.
So I though I'd go to the next one 4 miles away, this was shut also, and all the other pubs that dared to stay open had 'Locals Only' on the door.
The penny dropped, it was to do with cheeky chappies funeral, thought better of hanging around to get caught up in any carnage and went home.
So to summarise, intimidated and held up rush hour traffic, closed down the main pubs in two different towns, the towns which were now effectively in lockdown.
And why? Well the publicans would rather lose a couple of days trade than have to clear up and fix the damage that this lot would have caused, because they know that the local police would not do anything to stop them.
Can't blame them at all, but what an absolute joke our law enforcement is......
Sadly(?!), we live in a free country. Nobody (not even the police) has the power to stop a certain person entering a pub. I'm not sure what you're suggesting the police should do?On Wednesday they laid him to rest at a local church with the funeral planned for the next day. The cheeky scamps had gathered and held up the local traffic. They were walking in the road banging on cars and waving West Ham flags. Quite intimidating, as this was witnessed first hand by my daughter driving back from work. The jam was a good couple of miles long too.
Yesterday thought I'd pop in to the local Wetherspoons (yeah I know council) on the way back from work. The pub was shut, with a notice saying they'd be closed for the next two days.
So I though I'd go to the next one 4 miles away, this was shut also, and all the other pubs that dared to stay open had 'Locals Only' on the door.
The penny dropped, it was to do with cheeky chappies funeral, thought better of hanging around to get caught up in any carnage and went home.
So to summarise, intimidated and held up rush hour traffic, closed down the main pubs in two different towns, the towns which were now effectively in lockdown.
And why? Well the publicans would rather lose a couple of days trade than have to clear up and fix the damage that this lot would have caused, because they know that the local police would not do anything to stop them.
Can't blame them at all, but what an absolute joke our law enforcement is......
Following an incident of significant disorder, the Police can apply to set up a dispersal order which will be time limited (usually 24-48 hours) and bound by certain (tight) geographical limits e.g. a town centre in the 2-3 streets immediately surrounding the bars/clubs, which gives them the legal power to force a person to leave that geographical area. Other than that, unless someone is suspected of having committed a criminal offence leading to an arrest, the Police cannot force anyone to go anywhere.
The landlord of a pub is entitled (as it's a private business) not to serve a person alcohol, or to ask a group to leave, but given the threat of disorder rightly or wrongly associated with Irish travellers, they're perfectly entitled to decide to remain closed.
The Police are of course entitled to patrol to prevent disorder, and will of course regularly have a van in a town centre on Friday/Saturday nights, but in anywhere outside of London, you're probably looking at half a dozen officers for a major town centre on specific pub/club related disorder patrols, and maybe the same again on shift to respond to all the emergency and non-emergency calls that come in for the whole town and its suburbs - hardly enough to put a significant deterring presence on every pub in the area!
As an interesting distinction, we don't have "law enforcement" in this country - the Police in the UK police by consent - i.e. With the implied assumption that the population is civilised, well behaved, law abiding and general self-policing, the Police maintain a force just about big enough to cope with those incidents that do happen, with the minimum amount of force. It's why they don't carry guns, and it's why you see stories of Americans coming here say there are hardly any cops... they're right!
Sadly, certain members of society are not civilised, are generally criminally minded and don't mind taking full advantage of the situation
Edited by timbob on Thursday 9th November 16:24
Not too far from me....
http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/s...
Yet no arrests were made!
http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/s...
Yet no arrests were made!
djc206 said:
droopsnoot said:
But, where would someone go to confiscate the vehicle? With no registered address, it's just a case of looking around for it, and for traffic police to happen to drop on it when it's on the road.
Isn’t that what the ANPR network is for?jdw100 said:
stuff
when i was a kid (primary school) my dad was a sole trader and had a garage in the road nextt to bow court. after school he'd pick me up and we'd have to go back to his garage until 6pm so i'd occupy myaelf however.I had a bike so i would cycle all over the place unti it was time to go home.
One time i went into ther road next to bow court (morington road)... down the road and i went long the road that went under the train tracks. big mistake.
the whole area was a travellers area. within seconds i was surrounded by older kids and adults asking me
what am i doing there
nice bike
why you here
i wana punch him
i wana nick his bike (i had an old skol BMX with the plastic wheels).
i turned around and cycled away like crazy, never went back. Was getting chased by one of their dogs and it managed to bite (graze) me on my leg. thankfully it quickly gave up.
Benjaminpalma said:
could well be examples of misconduct in public office - a serious crime triable only in the Crown Court and carrying a potential life sentence.
The elements of the offence are summarised in Attorney General's Reference No 3 of 2003 [2004] EWCA Crim 868. The offence is committed when:
1. A public officer acting as such (i.e. a police officer,
2. Wilfully neglects to perform his duty and/or wilfully misconducts himself,
3. To such a degree as to amount to an abuse of the public's trust in the office holder, and
4. Without reasonable excuse or justification.
Chapter and verse here: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/misconduct_in_p...
I would be collecting evidence, and bringing a private prosecution against individual police officers and the Chief Constable in person - crowdfunding as necessary.
Just sayin'...
There's an old saying in the armed forces...The elements of the offence are summarised in Attorney General's Reference No 3 of 2003 [2004] EWCA Crim 868. The offence is committed when:
1. A public officer acting as such (i.e. a police officer,
2. Wilfully neglects to perform his duty and/or wilfully misconducts himself,
3. To such a degree as to amount to an abuse of the public's trust in the office holder, and
4. Without reasonable excuse or justification.
Chapter and verse here: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/misconduct_in_p...
I would be collecting evidence, and bringing a private prosecution against individual police officers and the Chief Constable in person - crowdfunding as necessary.
Just sayin'...
'They can't force you to do something but they can make you wish you had'
As I suggested a bit earlier in the thread, formal complaints against any police officer failing to take action, you can really drag things out and make the officers life a misery for years.
With the likes of Facebook it wouldn't take much to get several separate complaints against a single officer which would effectively destroy any chance of promotion.
Tango13 said:
There's an old saying in the armed forces...
'They can't force you to do something but they can make you wish you had'
As I suggested a bit earlier in the thread, formal complaints against any police officer failing to take action, you can really drag things out and make the officers life a misery for years.
With the likes of Facebook it wouldn't take much to get several separate complaints against a single officer which would effectively destroy any chance of promotion.
Fair point.'They can't force you to do something but they can make you wish you had'
As I suggested a bit earlier in the thread, formal complaints against any police officer failing to take action, you can really drag things out and make the officers life a misery for years.
With the likes of Facebook it wouldn't take much to get several separate complaints against a single officer which would effectively destroy any chance of promotion.
Sometimes, however, the fish starts to stink from the head: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-40997...
Andy 308GTB said:
techiedave said:
Benjaminpalma said:
theres some comedy gold in theredroopsnoot said:
Storer said:
Every vehicle we get registration details for is not registered, taxed, insured or MOT'd but are still on the roads. With modern surveillance equipment it should be possible to gain evidence to at least confiscate and crush these vehicles.
But, where would someone go to confiscate the vehicle? With no registered address, it's just a case of looking around for it, and for traffic police to happen to drop on it when it's on the road.Repeat, repeat, repeat.
Make their life difficult.
Storer said:
If one of these vehicles is observed in a traveller site. Enter site - check all vehicles for tax, insurance, registration and red diesel. Crush all offending vehicles.
Repeat, repeat, repeat.
Make their life difficult.
I doubt the Police are allowed to harass potential criminals. Yooman rights, innit?Repeat, repeat, repeat.
Make their life difficult.
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff