If you've worked in a large company...
Discussion
paul.deitch said:
SteveNorthEast said:
Arse licker. No self worth.
If you knew my reputation you wouldn't say that....Its called pragmatism, what game are you trying to win?
Are you winning? Do you know how to win? Do you have a global role, worked/lived in several countries, known as an expert in the field, enough money to indulge in fun hobbies, nice house, several cars.....
just play "the game"
Carry on licking those corporate arses and living your life.
paul.deitch said:
SteveNorthEast said:
Arse licker. No self worth.
If you knew my reputation you wouldn't say that....Its called pragmatism, what game are you trying to win?
Are you winning? Do you know how to win? Do you have a global role, worked/lived in several countries, known as an expert in the field, enough money to indulge in fun hobbies, nice house, several cars.....
just play "the game"
paul.deitch said:
SteveNorthEast said:
Arse licker. No self worth.
If you knew my reputation you wouldn't say that....Its called pragmatism, what game are you trying to win?
Are you winning? Do you know how to win? Do you have a global role, worked/lived in several countries, known as an expert in the field, enough money to indulge in fun hobbies, nice house, several cars.....
just play "the game"
Dr.Doofenshmirtz said:
paul.deitch said:
SteveNorthEast said:
Arse licker. No self worth.
If you knew my reputation you wouldn't say that....Its called pragmatism, what game are you trying to win?
Are you winning? Do you know how to win? Do you have a global role, worked/lived in several countries, known as an expert in the field, enough money to indulge in fun hobbies, nice house, several cars.....
just play "the game"
paul.deitch said:
balls?
no, great job, great salary, just play the game, be on the team, use the system and win....
those that don't play a good game aren't "team players" and "lose the game"
easy
i guess you aren't on the team
Oh sno, great job, great salary, just play the game, be on the team, use the system and win....
those that don't play a good game aren't "team players" and "lose the game"
easy
i guess you aren't on the team
t I've lost the game!Though I also hate management speak, and the corporate game.
paul.deitch said:
SteveNorthEast said:
Arse licker. No self worth.
If you knew my reputation you wouldn't say that....Its called pragmatism, what game are you trying to win?
Are you winning? Do you know how to win? Do you have a global role, worked/lived in several countries, known as an expert in the field, enough money to indulge in fun hobbies, nice house, several cars.....
just play "the game"
"Global Role"
"Expert in the field".
You have no idea how much of a tool you sound chap. If you got to your "Global role" by talking bulls
t and licking ass, rather than skill in your trade you should be sacked and the Job (That's right, it's a job not a bloody role) should be given to someone elese.Crikey, what a lot of animosity for a guy who is being honest, and coming across very well. You may disagree with Paul's points, but why be rude?
It would be naive to think that certain environments are NOT like Paul describes. Your field, indeed your lifestyle may not be there, but that doesn't mean other's aren't.
It would be naive to think that certain environments are NOT like Paul describes. Your field, indeed your lifestyle may not be there, but that doesn't mean other's aren't.
Give Paul a break.
I guess it depends where you work / have worked. But if you don't play the game in a lot of places you will genuinely get no where. Your choice is to leave the company or play the game, leaving is not always an option depending on industry / skills etc....
Your lucky if you don't have to play the game to get to the top and fair play to you if you don't. But some of us do, to get to similar positions, all depends on the industry and the people that live in it.
As someone who has had vast experience of IT / software sales... i can say it is choca bloc full of game players, arse lickers, apprentice wannabe's and people that would sell their grandmother for a deal. All under the guise of an 'IT Professional' of course.
Those of you that need to play the game to get on need to read this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rules-Work-Definitive-Pers...
Teaches you to play the game (cos you have to) and keep one step ahead.
Those that think this is bks, don't have to play the game. And you should enjoy the fact that you dont. One day you might.
I guess it depends where you work / have worked. But if you don't play the game in a lot of places you will genuinely get no where. Your choice is to leave the company or play the game, leaving is not always an option depending on industry / skills etc....
Your lucky if you don't have to play the game to get to the top and fair play to you if you don't. But some of us do, to get to similar positions, all depends on the industry and the people that live in it.
As someone who has had vast experience of IT / software sales... i can say it is choca bloc full of game players, arse lickers, apprentice wannabe's and people that would sell their grandmother for a deal. All under the guise of an 'IT Professional' of course.
Those of you that need to play the game to get on need to read this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rules-Work-Definitive-Pers...
Teaches you to play the game (cos you have to) and keep one step ahead.
Those that think this is b
ks, don't have to play the game. And you should enjoy the fact that you dont. One day you might.
It's embarrassingAndy888 said:
Sadly ability, expertise, or knowledge is not actually the key to success in my corporate world.
You certainly need the above - however you also need to get a little bit cute, and begin to play the game. Unfortunately this is the way it is:-1) No Ability, Expertise you will get nowhere and found out very quickly.
2) Ability, Expertise you will do OK
2) No Ability/Expertise - but play the game, you can still do well (Most annoyingly!)
3) Ability/Expertise and know how to play the game, you will do even better.
You will be amazed how many senior managers will discuss somebodys future along the lines of "So and So is an excellent employee, has all the ability, drive, determination etc etc, it is a shame they don't have what it takes to be considered for promotion/move/payrise etc etc" - What they mean when they say this is they do not play the game.
You go into any corporate environment and you will find the most knowledgeable guy sitting in the corner, coming up for retirement, reporting to his much younger boss (who has, if lucky) 50% of his knowledge. Old guy never played the game.............
It is that plain and simple. Maybe not pleasant - but that is the way it is.
I think there's a large difference between 'playing the game' and using ridiculous words and phrases when other, simpler, more understandable words will suffice. When I hear someone speaking and throwing in as many of these daft phrases as they can, I make a point of replying to them in clear English.
It has done me no harm so far.
It has done me no harm so far.
.OK, time to comment again. Nowhere did I say that I liked or admired it for itself.
But if you want to achieve in a global corporate environment like I work in, then either play the game (how ever your organisation defines it) or check out of your career aspirations.
Straight out of university I tried hard to 'be myself' because I knew I was so clever, ha ha. Then when you see people being promoted who are not as skilled as you, you do the maths and say "ah ha".
Then in my case someone decided to mentor me, and on cue 'success'. That was all 30 years ago. Never looked back.
Cynical?, yes, successful, yes, regrets, none.
So advice to the young people out there repeated, 'play the game'. By the way I now mentor young people myself and I am happy to report that at least one of them one day will be a very successful business woman in a global corporate environment.
EFS
But if you want to achieve in a global corporate environment like I work in, then either play the game (how ever your organisation defines it) or check out of your career aspirations.
Straight out of university I tried hard to 'be myself' because I knew I was so clever, ha ha. Then when you see people being promoted who are not as skilled as you, you do the maths and say "ah ha".
Then in my case someone decided to mentor me, and on cue 'success'. That was all 30 years ago. Never looked back.
Cynical?, yes, successful, yes, regrets, none.
So advice to the young people out there repeated, 'play the game'. By the way I now mentor young people myself and I am happy to report that at least one of them one day will be a very successful business woman in a global corporate environment.
EFS
Edited by paul.deitch on Thursday 26th November 19:30
Can we define "achieve" and "success" please?
I suspect my definitions are somewhat different.
Ive done my "high achievement", did before I was 30 infact. Know what I found? Depression of the Fry/Enke kind.
Now I get as much amusement and enjoyment pissing about with Del, Loon and co in the bargain barge type threads as I do back in my traditional haunts of the sportscar sections of life.
I suspect my definitions are somewhat different.
Ive done my "high achievement", did before I was 30 infact. Know what I found? Depression of the Fry/Enke kind.
Now I get as much amusement and enjoyment pissing about with Del, Loon and co in the bargain barge type threads as I do back in my traditional haunts of the sportscar sections of life.
)
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