Is anyone else not ambitious

[Gooose]

I’ve had a career change from ending up in management to doing an apprenticeship in mechanical engineering. Now I just fix stuff everyday, I can virtually plan my own day but if it came down to it I have to say how high if asked to jump. It’s a better compromise than being in management to and I love doing my job.
Pay is half decent for where I live and I’ve paid my mortgage off at 35. Now I am very capable of doing a better job than my managers and part of me wants to go as far as I can but rather than not being ambitious, I am actively not going down that path as I know where it takes you!
Now the hard part is how to do this job without people lumping you with the other guys who ain’t ever gone anywhere or been promoted. And tbh most of them are either incompetent or lazy, and there lies my problem...

[jakesmith]

Gooose said:

I’ve had a career change from ending up in management to doing an apprenticeship in mechanical engineering. Now I just fix stuff everyday, I can virtually plan my own day but if it came down to it I have to say how high if asked to jump. It’s a better compromise than being in management to and I love doing my job.
Pay is half decent for where I live and I’ve paid my mortgage off at 35. Now I am very capable of doing a better job than my managers and part of me wants to go as far as I can but rather than not being ambitious, I am actively not going down that path as I know where it takes you!
Now the hard part is how to do this job without people lumping you with the other guys who ain’t ever gone anywhere or been promoted. And tbh most of them are either incompetent or lazy, and there lies my problem...

You get that at many levels of an org and managing them isn’t fun either

[hyphen]

Gooose said:

Now the hard part is how to do this job without people lumping you with the other guys who ain’t ever gone anywhere or been promoted. And tbh most of them are either incompetent or lazy, and there lies my problem...

[1602Mark]

Work to live, not live to work.

Life is short.

[67Dino]

I was listening to a podcast the other day, interviewing US prof Scott Galloway about his work to analyse how people can make their lives happiest.

His advice for work was to ‘find something you’re good at’ on the basis that Society pays a premium for people who are really good at things, and you need a decent level of income and security for maximum happiness. Plus, it turns out people tend to start to enjoy doing something they’re really good at too, even if they weren’t that excited about it to begin with.

Lots of interesting data in his study, including how work/life balance should be varied by life stage for maximum happiness. He was also delightfully scathing about the advice to “follow your passion”. Apparently this works if you’re good at it, but not if you’re not. So your X-factor hopeful may well love singing but would have a happier life if they become an accountant...

If anyone’s interested, the podcast is at: https://pca.st/episode/34d17f26-0442-4437-a6cc-f88... He’s got also got a book out book called ‘The Algebra of Happiness’.

Edited by 67Dino on Thursday 27th June 07:33

Edited by 67Dino on Thursday 27th June 07:35

[Monkeylegend]

One of the themes in these type of threads is so many stating they could do their managers job better then the manager themselves can, yet these people have never been in a management role to make that judgement.

[Kewy]

jakesmith said:

Kewy said:

I only read the first couple of pages. But one has to ask 'ambitious at what?'

Health – Yes
Sport – Yes
Knowledge – Yes
Creativity – Yes

But career and money, not in the slightest.

I have this chat with friends of mine fairly regularly who seem to associate 'being successful' with how high up the career-ladder you've climbed and what salary you are on.

For me, health and happiness is a much higher priority. I have lots of ambition and goals for sport, and photography, and health, and hobbies. But not so much for doubling or tripling my salary – or the stress and pressure that comes with such an ambition.

That's fantastic & I'm sure you are much happier than many of your friends etc, sounds great, however the word 'ambitious' is generally taken as refering to career, financial and business sucess IMO

Interesting that though isn't it

Actual definitions:

A strong desire to do or achieve something.

and/or

Desire and determination to achieve success.

I think your post supports my point, that a lot of society associate success with finance and career… leaving an all too common feeling of inadequacy. Forgetting how successful they are in other aspects of life. Social media and the whole aspiring lifestyle bks doesn't help much either.

[markcoznottz]

Monkeylegend said:

One of the themes in these type of threads is so many stating they could do their managers job better then the manager themselves can, yet these people have never been in a management role to make that judgement.

A monkey could do better than most uk middle management.

[Jonno02]

A lot of people quoting the national average salary here and saying you're successful if you're above it. Not always the case.

If the national average is £30,000 and you're on £31,000, from the outside, it might look like you're doing well. However, if the industry standard for your job is £50,000, is that still the case?

[Condi]

Jonno02 said:

A lot of people quoting the national average salary here and saying you're successful if you're above it. Not always the case.

If the national average is £30,000 and you're on £31,000, from the outside, it might look like you're doing well. However, if the industry standard for your job is £50,000, is that still the case?

Depends if you compare yourself to the average man in the street or your peers at work.

If the average FTSE 100 CEO salary is £2m and you're only on £1m does that make you unsuccessful? Probably not.

[Jonno02]

Condi said:

Depends if you compare yourself to the average man in the street or your peers at work.

If the average FTSE 100 CEO salary is £2m and you're only on £1m does that make you unsuccessful? Probably not.

Not the same thing though.

The key word is industry;
If a bridge structural engineer is on 75k and his colleague at another company in the same region, with the same experience, that does the same job, is on £30k, is that success?

[Monkeylegend]

markcoznottz said:

Monkeylegend said:

One of the themes in these type of threads is so many stating they could do their managers job better then the manager themselves can, yet these people have never been in a management role to make that judgement.

A monkey could do better than most uk middle management.

I doubt that

[TameRacingDriver]

Monkeylegend said:

One of the themes in these type of threads is so many stating they could do their managers job better then the manager themselves can, yet these people have never been in a management role to make that judgement.

You're right, its just human nature. I hear it all the time at work. Such and such is a crap manager. Well, if you can do better, then go ahead, that's what I say...

Same with other stuff - such and such manager of whatever football team is crap, I can do better as I play championship manager on my PC, etc etc. They're usually talking out of their arse. Put your money where your mouth is or shut it!

[Monkeylegend]

TameRacingDriver said:

Monkeylegend said:

One of the themes in these type of threads is so many stating they could do their managers job better then the manager themselves can, yet these people have never been in a management role to make that judgement.

You're right, its just human nature. I hear it all the time at work. Such and such is a crap manager. Well, if you can do better, then go ahead, that's what I say...

Same with other stuff - such and such manager of whatever football team is crap, I can do better as I play championship manager on my PC, etc etc. They're usually talking out of their arse. Put your money where your mouth is or shut it!

I couldn't agree more

[RTB]

I wouldn't wish line management on my worst enemy.They can keep it as far as I'm concerned. I like to be able to look after the projects I'm responsible for, get everything done and essentially stay more or less unnoticed. Go home when I've done my 8 hours and work from home when I feel like it.

I wonder if you could correlate the level of ambition a person has with level of extroversion/introversion? Then again level of ambition doesn't alway correlate with level of ability

[anonymous-user]

Ambition: A strong wish to achieve something.

One rung up the ladder hardly qualifies really.

[Kewy]

I also think there is a lot to be said about mastering a craft.

Example, theres a local wood work studio run by an old-boy who's been doing carpentry considerably longer than I've been alive. Studio is very modest, owner is very modest. I don't know his financial situation, but I get the impression he works on a job-by-job basis and it pays the bills. He lives in a terraced house round the corner from his workshop, drives a modest car, wears modest clothes. But ultimately, loves his job craft, and is probably one of the best at his trade, decades of knowledge.

On the other hand, I know a slightly younger guy who has worked his way up the 'ladder' and now manages a team of people who sell life insurance over the phone, mainly to the elderly. Has a 6 figure salary and a flash car. Lives in a detached house out in the sticks. Rarely home before 8pm. Never really heard him praise how much he loves his job.

Both nice guys, don't get me wrong. But I know which ones gains more of my respect.

[Aitch H]

I’ve never really been that ambitious but have always been good at what I’ve done, not outstanding but good, so I’ve been lucky that I’ve had promotions and worked up to manager level. I worked for a big corporation and was a department manager, but the bullst that went with it was unbelievable so I quit and got another lower level job working for a smaller private firm in the same industry, that led to a promotion within months of starting and I was again heading a department, but the back stabbing and bhing was unbearable as I was perceived to have been promoted ‘far too early’ in the eyes of some of the long termers. I now work for an even smaller company, in fact it’s a company that sub-contracts work from the company I just left and I couldn’t be happier. I’m left to plan my own diary and am out meeting with clients all day and get along really well with my bosses, who are actually the owners, so there’s no scope for promotion here but the money’s the same and my work days are far shorter than ever before. On paper it would look like I’m going backwards working for smaller and smaller companies but in reality I’m happier and my work/life balance has improved immeasurably.
Incidentally I still speak to my ‘number two’ at my old job with the big corporation who was the natural successor to my old role and he absolutely hates it, his wife says it’s aged him massively too. I even offered him a job at my new place about 6 months after I’d left but he’d remortgaged and couldn’t afford any drop in salary so he’s stuck there.
I realise this is slightly off topic but my point being is that even when not actively looking for promotion/being ambitious you can still do well I’d you're good at what you do. Like they say....do something you enjoy and you’ll be good at it

[markcoznottz]

Monkeylegend said:

markcoznottz said:

Monkeylegend said:

One of the themes in these type of threads is so many stating they could do their managers job better then the manager themselves can, yet these people have never been in a management role to make that judgement.

A monkey could do better than most uk middle management.

I doubt that

Well there can't be much in it. Anecdotal or not, most uk management seem to always do the exact opposite of what they should do. Rather than enabling staff, the system in the main seensto be about putting as much distance as possible between the 'shop floor' and the management level.

[Monkeylegend]

markcoznottz said:

Monkeylegend said:

markcoznottz said:

Monkeylegend said:

One of the themes in these type of threads is so many stating they could do their managers job better then the manager themselves can, yet these people have never been in a management role to make that judgement.

A monkey could do better than most uk middle management.

I doubt that

Well there can't be much in it. Anecdotal or not, most uk management seem to always do the exact opposite of what they should do. Rather than enabling staff, the system in the main seensto be about putting as much distance as possible between the 'shop floor' and the management level.

Sweeping statements like that mean nothing unless you have a detailed insight and experience of all UK industry and management, which I doubt you do.