Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
p1stonhead said:
Unless I’m mistaken, there is no proposal for schools to lose their charitable status and therefore pay VAT on what they buy. It’s just for their customers.
Why is this controversial? The schools won’t be affected. Those paying will be.
And I’m sure most will afford it just fine. If they can’t well that’s just how capitalism works isn’t it? Nearly everyone already can’t afford it.
There’s pages and pages of why it’s probably not a great idea. Why is this controversial? The schools won’t be affected. Those paying will be.
And I’m sure most will afford it just fine. If they can’t well that’s just how capitalism works isn’t it? Nearly everyone already can’t afford it.
okgo said:
p1stonhead said:
Unless I’m mistaken, there is no proposal for schools to lose their charitable status and therefore pay VAT on what they buy. It’s just for their customers.
Why is this controversial? The schools won’t be affected. Those paying will be.
And I’m sure most will afford it just fine. If they can’t well that’s just how capitalism works isn’t it? Nearly everyone already can’t afford it.
There’s pages and pages of why it’s probably not a great idea. Why is this controversial? The schools won’t be affected. Those paying will be.
And I’m sure most will afford it just fine. If they can’t well that’s just how capitalism works isn’t it? Nearly everyone already can’t afford it.
I suspect most will keep their head down and simply pay it, like they’ve had to do with energy bills, mortgages and pretty much everything else.
page3 said:
borcy said:
page3 said:
How would VAT on independent schools that are funded by local government work? Wouldn’t it be an own goal?
What do you mean by local gov work?TownIdiot said:
I'd also have thought many state schools would benefit from having more kids with engaged and motivated parents.
I'm afraid, that's one of the misnomers. Firstly, the children with those parents will just stay and the parents cut back more elsewhere and secondly, those that can't cut back any more will take up grammar school places. And, if parents were to opt for state then they would move to the catchment of one of the ones that already has no need for improvement. The other fallacy is that all the parents of public school children are engaged in their children's academia. I'm afraid that these days many are very much not. There is no upside for the state system or its participants other than schadenfreude.
I read a couple of threads on Twitter/X this morning on private schools and the vitriol and hate being spewed by some of the “be kind” socialists was almost shocking
Clearly “taxing the rich” is very popular with some of the Labour voters
I have zero skin in the game, I went to a state school in a northern mill town and don’t have any kids in private schools
There are a few private schools in the area, one is world famous/renowned (Stonyhurst) and I doubt very much its clientele would be much affected by additional fees. Although I do have.a friend with a son there as a day student, who is equally as working class as me, but is a self employed builder who’s seemingly doing ok for himself. I don’t know what his capacity to absorb extra fees would be
Otherwise the private schools around here in Lancs aren’t the bastions of the super rich but full of kids from ordinary families where parents have made some very significant sacrifices to avoid the increasingly sectarian state sector
I do know a few people in that category and know that they are really trying hard to do their best for their kids
People have this idea that private schools equal millionaires and Eton but up here in the north it really couldn’t be further from that preconception
They also do a lot for the local communities beyond offering scholarships and reduced fees for some students such as their sports facilities being open to locals outside school hours etc
A couple have closed in recent years locally
It will certainly be interesting to see what the fallout is and what the unintended consequences are
Clearly “taxing the rich” is very popular with some of the Labour voters
I have zero skin in the game, I went to a state school in a northern mill town and don’t have any kids in private schools
There are a few private schools in the area, one is world famous/renowned (Stonyhurst) and I doubt very much its clientele would be much affected by additional fees. Although I do have.a friend with a son there as a day student, who is equally as working class as me, but is a self employed builder who’s seemingly doing ok for himself. I don’t know what his capacity to absorb extra fees would be
Otherwise the private schools around here in Lancs aren’t the bastions of the super rich but full of kids from ordinary families where parents have made some very significant sacrifices to avoid the increasingly sectarian state sector
I do know a few people in that category and know that they are really trying hard to do their best for their kids
People have this idea that private schools equal millionaires and Eton but up here in the north it really couldn’t be further from that preconception
They also do a lot for the local communities beyond offering scholarships and reduced fees for some students such as their sports facilities being open to locals outside school hours etc
A couple have closed in recent years locally
It will certainly be interesting to see what the fallout is and what the unintended consequences are
DonkeyApple said:
I'm afraid, that's one of the misnomers. Firstly, the children with those parents will just stay and the parents cut back more elsewhere and secondly, those that can't cut back any more will take up grammar school places. And, if parents were to opt for state then they would move to the catchment of one of the ones that already has no need for improvement. The other fallacy is that all the parents of public school children are engaged in their children's academia. I'm afraid that these days many are very much not.
There is no upside for the state system or its participants other than schadenfreude.
A quick google suggest 5% of families have the option of state grammar schools. So that avenue is closed for the vast majority. Moving will likely cost more in tax than new VAT saved.There is no upside for the state system or its participants other than schadenfreude.
I'd also suggest that those parents who are struggling to pay the fees are very much engaged in their children's education, whilst accepting that many parents aren't.
TownIdiot said:
A quick google suggest 5% of families have the option of state grammar schools. So that avenue is closed for the vast majority. Moving will likely cost more in tax than new VAT saved.
I'd also suggest that those parents who are struggling to pay the fees are very much engaged in their children's education, whilst accepting that many parents aren't.
I’d say they are the most engaged I'd also suggest that those parents who are struggling to pay the fees are very much engaged in their children's education, whilst accepting that many parents aren't.
TownIdiot said:
Well it will either raise some tax or lead to some highly motivated families joining the state sector.
They won’t be joining the state sector that ‘needs’ it. They’ll be heading to the great state schools out of reach of people who can’t buy the houses near it. Or to the big grammars. I think someone said it up the page, but if we couldn’t afford the 20% the thought I’d be sending my son to the state we saw is a non starter given how poor it seemed. okgo said:
They won’t be joining the state sector that ‘needs’ it. They’ll be heading to the great state schools out of reach of people who can’t buy the houses near it. Or to the big grammars. I think someone said it up the page, but if we couldn’t afford the 20% the thought I’d be sending my son to the state we saw is a non starter given how poor it seemed.
Some serious costs in moving, but at least the people affected will have a choice to make.TownIdiot said:
Some serious costs in moving, but at least the people affected will have a choice to make.
Not really compared to years of school, I think if you had kids younger than early teens it would make sense in most cases. Yes but I thought you wanted it to help the state system? It won’t, people like that aren’t going to suddenly give up on their kids schooling and send them to a crap state.
okgo said:
Not really compared to years of school, I think if you had kids younger than early teens it would make sense in most cases.
Yes but I thought you wanted it to help the state system? It won’t, people like that aren’t going to suddenly give up on their kids schooling and send them to a crap state.
Tbh I think this is just tinkering at the edges and will impact a very small group of people.Yes but I thought you wanted it to help the state system? It won’t, people like that aren’t going to suddenly give up on their kids schooling and send them to a crap state.
20% on the day school fees round here will be about 3k. (NW England)
I just don't see it making a big difference to the overwhelming majority of those in the private system.
TownIdiot said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'm afraid, that's one of the misnomers. Firstly, the children with those parents will just stay and the parents cut back more elsewhere and secondly, those that can't cut back any more will take up grammar school places. And, if parents were to opt for state then they would move to the catchment of one of the ones that already has no need for improvement. The other fallacy is that all the parents of public school children are engaged in their children's academia. I'm afraid that these days many are very much not.
There is no upside for the state system or its participants other than schadenfreude.
A quick google suggest 5% of families have the option of state grammar schools. So that avenue is closed for the vast majority. Moving will likely cost more in tax than new VAT saved.There is no upside for the state system or its participants other than schadenfreude.
I'd also suggest that those parents who are struggling to pay the fees are very much engaged in their children's education, whilst accepting that many parents aren't.
borcy said:
TownIdiot said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'm afraid, that's one of the misnomers. Firstly, the children with those parents will just stay and the parents cut back more elsewhere and secondly, those that can't cut back any more will take up grammar school places. And, if parents were to opt for state then they would move to the catchment of one of the ones that already has no need for improvement. The other fallacy is that all the parents of public school children are engaged in their children's academia. I'm afraid that these days many are very much not.
There is no upside for the state system or its participants other than schadenfreude.
A quick google suggest 5% of families have the option of state grammar schools. So that avenue is closed for the vast majority. Moving will likely cost more in tax than new VAT saved.There is no upside for the state system or its participants other than schadenfreude.
I'd also suggest that those parents who are struggling to pay the fees are very much engaged in their children's education, whilst accepting that many parents aren't.
borcy said:
I would have thought the same, public sector grammar schools must be very rare now. A couple of counties still have the grammar system and NI, plus a few others dotted about the place.
It’s a quick move to Tunbridge Wells. It isn’t difficult. What it’s not is sending kids to the local ‘needs improvement” - that will never happen. Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff