Average house price now 8.7 times average income
Discussion
redrabbit29 said:
There are now 20 pages of people saying how straight forward the big issue is and others replying there is no issue.
To paraphrase - Work hard, avoid debt, save up, 2x incomes, realistic about what initial property, outside of London and prime south east, start work sooner than 22/23 y/o, stay at parents home whilst you save up = possible.Go to uni,take a gap year, generate huge debt, want to buy on single wage, want a forever home as first purchase, in London / Home Counties or prime countryside, living in rental accommodation, driving a shiny lease car, eating smashed avo daily = very difficult.
bennno said:
redrabbit29 said:
There are now 20 pages of people saying how straight forward the big issue is and others replying there is no issue.
To paraphrase - Work hard, avoid debt, save up, 2x incomes, realistic about what initial property, outside of London and prime south east, start work sooner than 22/23 y/o, stay at parents home whilst you save up = possible.Go to uni,take a gap year, generate huge debt, want to buy on single wage, want a forever home as first purchase, in London / Home Counties or prime countryside, living in rental accommodation, driving a shiny lease car, eating smashed avo daily = very difficult.
Cow Corner said:
bennno said:
redrabbit29 said:
There are now 20 pages of people saying how straight forward the big issue is and others replying there is no issue.
To paraphrase - Work hard, avoid debt, save up, 2x incomes, realistic about what initial property, outside of London and prime south east, start work sooner than 22/23 y/o, stay at parents home whilst you save up = possible.Go to uni,take a gap year, generate huge debt, want to buy on single wage, want a forever home as first purchase, in London / Home Counties or prime countryside, living in rental accommodation, driving a shiny lease car, eating smashed avo daily = very difficult.
It's where in that continuum that the problems start that matters - it wasn't entirely rosy in the past (even once past the grief of 15% interest rates). And I think the consensus is that the 'problem line' has been moving further and further up over the last 27 years.
havoc said:
This.
It's where in that continuum that the problems start that matters - it wasn't entirely rosy in the past (even once past the grief of 15% interest rates). And I think the consensus is that the 'problem line' has been moving further and further up over the last 27 years.
We're already seeing rapidly decreasing birth rates amongst Millennial parents where the cost of affording a family home is only feasible once fertility has started to quickly decline. Then you have the added expense of fertility treatment and childcare impacting household budgets, as well as older grandparents being unable to support.It's where in that continuum that the problems start that matters - it wasn't entirely rosy in the past (even once past the grief of 15% interest rates). And I think the consensus is that the 'problem line' has been moving further and further up over the last 27 years.
It's a crash already seen across many cities and regions.
Evanivitch said:
We're already seeing rapidly decreasing birth rates amongst Millennial parents where the cost of affording a family home is only feasible once fertility has started to quickly decline. Then you have the added expense of fertility treatment and childcare impacting household budgets, as well as older grandparents being unable to support.
It's a crash already seen across many cities and regions.
This is partly because many people are starting work later. If it takes 5 years from leaving full time education to buying a house then you can do it at 21 if you leave after GCSEs but 27 if you go all the way to a masters. Government policy is to extend economic dependence until much later and this is one of the consequences.It's a crash already seen across many cities and regions.
princeperch said:
To be fair unless I've missed something here, okgos parents spent 100k on their house nearly 40 years ago which then sold 20 odd years later for a million?
100k in the early 1980s was a s
t load of money to spend on a house.
My house, which I spent 865k on in q1 2022,and which by all accounts was a good deal, was sold for 32k in 1982.
First house purchased in 78 was a tiny 1830s run down cottage in a hamlet in West Wales miles from anywhere, bought for £7,500 completely renovated and extended sold for about £17K in 83. We could have gone for a cheap apartment in town but opted for the challenge. 100k in the early 1980s was a s
t load of money to spend on a house.My house, which I spent 865k on in q1 2022,and which by all accounts was a good deal, was sold for 32k in 1982.
We then bought a 3 bed end of terrace for £27.5K in Hemel Hempstead. Spent a couple of years putting in new kitchen, ripping out warm air heating and installing wet radiator system. New carpets and sold for just over £80K about 3 years later. Not a tradesperson of any sort or good at DIY but needs must.
Moved loads of times and repeated in nearly every subsequent house including one demolish and build new whilst living in caravans with two boys and one convert chalet house to upside down place with big square box as first floor located on the beach south coast. Now about to do another a the age of 69 albeit smaller scale. It will be the last.
I've got a good mate in his mid 30s, carpenter. Already owns 2 buy to lets, mortgaged obviously and is about to buy a house for £530K. He's done similar buying tatty houses and tidying them up and then moving on.
There are plenty of opportunities if a person is willing to get the hands dirty and move regularly.
Evanivitch said:
We're already seeing rapidly decreasing birth rates amongst Millennial parents where the cost of affording a family home is only feasible once fertility has started to quickly decline. Then you have the added expense of fertility treatment and childcare impacting household budgets, as well as older grandparents being unable to support.
It's a crash already seen across many cities and regions.
The birth rate in the UK was falling well before any economic issues. It is typical as economies become wealthier and health care reduces infant mortality hence women choose to have less children. It's a crash already seen across many cities and regions.
In developing economies it is their increased wealth not poverty which drives the reducing fertility rates.
The economic impact is a newish impact in the UK.
There is loads of research and data if you're interested. Prof Hans Rosling is a good starting point.
Evanivitch said:
We're already seeing rapidly decreasing birth rates amongst Millennial parents where the cost of affording a family home is only feasible once fertility has started to quickly decline. Then you have the added expense of fertility treatment and childcare impacting household budgets, as well as older grandparents being unable to support.
It's a crash already seen across many cities and regions.
I'm one of those childless millenials (36yo). It's a crash already seen across many cities and regions.
Would I like a kid? Maybe, however from reading the stories on here it is very off-putting. I have a stressful job and am knackered at the best of times. And I adore my sleep. Money is not the issue - it's the complete up-ending of my life.
I'm honestly surprised child-rearing is as common as it is based on the realities of it!
Nomme de Plum said:
The birth rate in the UK was falling well before any economic issues. It is typical as economies become wealthier and health care reduces infant mortality hence women choose to have less children.
In developing economies it is their increased wealth not poverty which drives the reducing fertility rates.
The economic impact is a newish impact in the UK.
There is loads of research and data if you're interested. Prof Hans Rosling is a good starting point.
The research I've read is specific to the rate change due to the gap between wages and house prices. You'd do well to read it.In developing economies it is their increased wealth not poverty which drives the reducing fertility rates.
The economic impact is a newish impact in the UK.
There is loads of research and data if you're interested. Prof Hans Rosling is a good starting point.
GroundEffect said:
I'm one of those childless millenials (36yo).
Would I like a kid? Maybe, however from reading the stories on here it is very off-putting. I have a stressful job and am knackered at the best of times. And I adore my sleep. Money is not the issue - it's the complete up-ending of my life.
I'm honestly surprised child-rearing is as common as it is based on the realities of it!
I remember one of the anti-smoking lessons they talked about the cost of cigarettes. No one mentioned the cost of kids in sex Ed...Would I like a kid? Maybe, however from reading the stories on here it is very off-putting. I have a stressful job and am knackered at the best of times. And I adore my sleep. Money is not the issue - it's the complete up-ending of my life.
I'm honestly surprised child-rearing is as common as it is based on the realities of it!
Mr Penguin said:
This is partly because many people are starting work later. If it takes 5 years from leaving full time education to buying a house then you can do it at 21 if you leave after GCSEs but 27 if you go all the way to a masters. Government policy is to extend economic dependence until much later and this is one of the consequences.
Finish school at 16 and 4 year apprenticeship or 6 year A-levels through to Masters. 20 versus 22.The numbers aren't app that different. People need to stop pretending that Apprentices are on mega bucks.
Nomme de Plum said:
First house purchased in 78 was a tiny 1830s run down cottage in a hamlet in West Wales miles from anywhere, bought for £7,500 completely renovated and extended sold for about £17K in 83. We could have gone for a cheap apartment in town but opted for the challenge.
We then bought a 3 bed end of terrace for £27.5K in Hemel Hempstead. Spent a couple of years putting in new kitchen, ripping out warm air heating and installing wet radiator system. New carpets and sold for just over £80K about 3 years later. Not a tradesperson of any sort or good at DIY but needs must.
Moved loads of times and repeated in nearly every subsequent house including one demolish and build new whilst living in caravans with two boys and one convert chalet house to upside down place with big square box as first floor located on the beach south coast. Now about to do another a the age of 69 albeit smaller scale. It will be the last.
I've got a good mate in his mid 30s, carpenter. Already owns 2 buy to lets, mortgaged obviously and is about to buy a house for £530K. He's done similar buying tatty houses and tidying them up and then moving on.
There are plenty of opportunities if a person is willing to get the hands dirty and move regularly.
Doesn't work as well in the SE as stamp etc starts eating profits. Fine for some of the UK though I agree.We then bought a 3 bed end of terrace for £27.5K in Hemel Hempstead. Spent a couple of years putting in new kitchen, ripping out warm air heating and installing wet radiator system. New carpets and sold for just over £80K about 3 years later. Not a tradesperson of any sort or good at DIY but needs must.
Moved loads of times and repeated in nearly every subsequent house including one demolish and build new whilst living in caravans with two boys and one convert chalet house to upside down place with big square box as first floor located on the beach south coast. Now about to do another a the age of 69 albeit smaller scale. It will be the last.
I've got a good mate in his mid 30s, carpenter. Already owns 2 buy to lets, mortgaged obviously and is about to buy a house for £530K. He's done similar buying tatty houses and tidying them up and then moving on.
There are plenty of opportunities if a person is willing to get the hands dirty and move regularly.
My point around my parents wasn't about anything other than how easy it was for them vs me on the same property. My house sold for £310k in 1999 - it was also about 15x the average wage then, and is now well overr 30x the average way.
havoc said:
Cow Corner said:
bennno said:
redrabbit29 said:
There are now 20 pages of people saying how straight forward the big issue is and others replying there is no issue.
To paraphrase - Work hard, avoid debt, save up, 2x incomes, realistic about what initial property, outside of London and prime south east, start work sooner than 22/23 y/o, stay at parents home whilst you save up = possible.Go to uni,take a gap year, generate huge debt, want to buy on single wage, want a forever home as first purchase, in London / Home Counties or prime countryside, living in rental accommodation, driving a shiny lease car, eating smashed avo daily = very difficult.
It's where in that continuum that the problems start that matters - it wasn't entirely rosy in the past (even once past the grief of 15% interest rates). And I think the consensus is that the 'problem line' has been moving further and further up over the last 27 years.
Mobile phones are an essential nowadays and handsets can easily be £1k plus monthly subscriptions
TV’s used to have 3 channels and cost £4 a month from radio rentals, now it’s £2k TV’s and £100 per month sky
Cars were ford’s and Vauxhalls and bought dirt cheap out of the back of the local paper or auto trader, BMWs and Mercs were a rare sight
Council tax is insane amounts
Parking used to be free or cost next to nothing
Etc etc etc
It’s very hard to live frugally now as everything costs and it’s seems businesses/government/councils are trying harder and harder to come up with ways of fleecing more and more money out of people
I don’t want the above to seem like a rant but just pointing out that it isn’t just house prices that have gone mad
I’m in my 50’s now but looking back to my 20’s life just seemed so much simpler and easier
I was living in east London, I could just jump in my car and drive anywhere I wanted, I could drive it up to Muswell Hill, even went to Selsey Bill, I drove along the A45, even had her up to fifty-eight, park most places for free after 6.30pm as an example, now it’s so I have the right permit, I have paid the congestion charge, ULEZ charge, have I avoided the thousands of cameras trying to fine me etc etc
Anyway as you were
Evanivitch said:
Finish school at 16 and 4 year apprenticeship or 6 year A-levels through to Masters. 20 versus 22.
The numbers aren't app that different. People need to stop pretending that Apprentices are on mega bucks.
My parents left school at 16 and went straight into work. In fact, I think my Dad left at 15. No apprenticeships.The numbers aren't app that different. People need to stop pretending that Apprentices are on mega bucks.
Mr Penguin said:
Evanivitch said:
Finish school at 16 and 4 year apprenticeship or 6 year A-levels through to Masters. 20 versus 22.
The numbers aren't app that different. People need to stop pretending that Apprentices are on mega bucks.
My parents left school at 16 and went straight into work. In fact, I think my Dad left at 15. No apprenticeships.The numbers aren't app that different. People need to stop pretending that Apprentices are on mega bucks.
okgo said:
None of that is important. Or mostly even correct.
.
Of course it is .. life is way more expensive now than it was 30 years ago.
Which all compounds the problem
Thee were no congestion charges, virtually no traffic cameras, parking on yellow lines was allowed after 6.30pm, the tube station car park was free, there was no internet, mobile phones were a very new thing and only made calls, I was renting so didn’t pay rates although council tax was just coming in, when I did have to pay it it wasn’t much at all
WY86 said:
I would be interested to know exactly what happens when these young couples who bought together, leveraging their 2 x incomes to buy a house break up? either stick it out in a miserable relationship or hope mum and dad haven't downsized.
It's an interesting question. It happened to me, luckily I'd saved enough on the side to be able to buy her out of her half. Had I not rapidly increased my earnings since buying I would imagine the outcome is either her parents/my parents help buy the other party out or you sell it and back to square one unless enough time has passed that you see enough growth to both take a deposit out of it.Clearly the first option requires a good job, the second option requires wealthy parents, and the third option requires house prices to increase. All quite risky bets aren't they.
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