Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 4]

[98elise]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

I think the biggest difference between science and religion is that with science if new facts come to light which disagree with the theory, then the theory is refined. Whereas with religion, the attempt is made to explain away the facts.

(I used "theory" in the scientific sense rather than the colloquial sense. The confusion between the two gives rise to retorts like "It's only a theory" which shows a lack of understanding of what a scientific theory is)

It's also nice that science is clear about the validity of anything scientific, ie hypothesis, theory, law. Faith doesn't even qualify as a hypothesis let alone theory..

The only faith in science is that the process for testing and proving theory and law is sound ie I don't need to see the evidence for say Boyles law because the process of becoming a law means the evidence exists and the results are repeatable without exception.

[anonymous-user]

A lot of the early great leaps in science came from Islam. It is only in modern times Islam and science are not embraced together as they were.

[Jaroon]

98elise said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

I think the biggest difference between science and religion is that with science if new facts come to light which disagree with the theory, then the theory is refined. Whereas with religion, the attempt is made to explain away the facts.

(I used "theory" in the scientific sense rather than the colloquial sense. The confusion between the two gives rise to retorts like "It's only a theory" which shows a lack of understanding of what a scientific theory is)

It's also nice that science is clear about the validity of anything scientific, ie hypothesis, theory, law. Faith doesn't even qualify as a hypothesis let alone theory..

The only faith in science is that the process for testing and proving theory and law is sound ie I don't need to see the evidence for say Boyles law because the process of becoming a law means the evidence exists and the results are repeatable without exception.

This really is a wood for the trees moment. You have to take SO Much on "faith" before you can begin to advance science. This is fine but be willing to acknowledge it. And if your faith seems justified then hallelujah. I think scientific method is the best option we have given our limited tools but has holes, shortcuts, simplifications that would invalidate current thinking if we were considerably brighter, ie we're almost certainly wrong but happy to tell other belief systems they are wrong. This bothers me. CC do you accept you take much of what you believe to be the nature of the universe on the word of people you have never met and don't fully understand the concepts involved? This is the crux, glad we can keep it civil which is the beginning of my point, ignorant people disparaging other ignorant people with no self awareness of how close their mental models are, albeit with significant differences as well.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Jaroon said:

CC do you accept you take much of what you believe to be the nature of the universe on the word of people you have never met and don't fully understand the concepts involved?

Possibly. Although I hope that my BSc in Applied Physics might have given me some insight into science. And I was raised by Christian parents and continued my faith into my early adulthood before rejecting it and becoming an atheist.

(Not being sarky, btw)

[Jaroon]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Jaroon said:

CC do you accept you take much of what you believe to be the nature of the universe on the word of people you have never met and don't fully understand the concepts involved?

Possibly. Although I hope that my BSc in Applied Physics might have given me some insight into science. And I was raised by Christian parents and continued my faith into my early adulthood before rejecting it and becoming an atheist.

(Not being sarky, btw)

I'll take Possibly any day of the week and what I would expect and hope of a non layman. I'm an ex airline pilot turned, train driver turned, test driver, so definate layman but my daughter is about to start a fully funded PHd in a related field, if she has any break throughs I'll be sure to let you know

I was raised Catholic. Lasped but am agnostic.

EDIT: Derailed enough and on a positive note will bow out.

Edited by Jaroon on Monday 12th August 22:26

[Flibble]

For me the difference is in not just taking someone's word for it, I am able to read their results (and repeat them if I choose) then see if I agree with the conclusions they have drawn.

Religion by contrast is basically of the form, "it is written and thus it is so".

[StevieBee]

V8mate said:

StevieBee said:

(I don’t want to get into a Brexit / Climate Change debate – ...

... but retain the right to be disparaging and condescending?

You're better than that, Steve.

Was a clumsy example, wasn't it? Bad day at the office.

[shirt]

mike74 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

No. Buck rhymes with luck and book with look. I've known people to rhyme book and look with Luke, but not with luck.

No. Book, look, buck and luck are all pronounced exactly the same!

I’m a northerner (Leeds) and fully agree.

I do recall people at school who would pronounce look/luck as Luke but they were ‘sub-optimal’ shall we say and would have made ideal candidates for cannon fodder.

[bigpriest]

shirt said:

I’m a northerner (Leeds) and fully agree.

I do recall people at school who would pronounce look/luck as Luke but they were ‘sub-optimal’ shall we say and would have made ideal candidates for cannon fodder.

"Bucktoothed simpletons with eyebrows on their cheeks"

[FiF]

Shakermaker said:

The arrival of the "caravan club" to the local park over the weekend has got the residents all talking on the town Facebook page.

But as with all these things, it is regularly repeated that "trespass is a civil offence not a criminal offence" which got me wondering - what would be the consequences of it becoming a criminal offence? Presumably a different level of evidence required to prove a crime was committed?

Slightly tongue in cheek response, but I reckon if the law were changed to deal with that element, one of the consequences would be the criminalisation of Reg and Doris stopping off on their way to Bridlington in order to let the Rover cool down and took advantage to open up the Eccles Elite behind prepare a refreshing brew of PG Tips and a pork pie salad plus let Fido out for a sniff and a slash. Meanwhile the other "caravan club" would calmly, or probably not so calmly, just flick the V's and carry on regardless.

Cynical? Moi?

[anonymous-user]

shirt said:

mike74 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

No. Buck rhymes with luck and book with look. I've known people to rhyme book and look with Luke, but not with luck.

No. Book, look, buck and luck are all pronounced exactly the same!

I’m a northerner (Leeds) and fully agree.

I do recall people at school who would pronounce look/luck as Luke but they were ‘sub-optimal’ shall we say and would have made ideal candidates for cannon fodder.

See: current Top Gear presenters. 2 of them sound like they have been the victims of bad brain surgery after a vicious and sustained hammer attack.

[V8mate]

StevieBee said:

V8mate said:

StevieBee said:

(I don’t want to get into a Brexit / Climate Change debate – ...

... but retain the right to be disparaging and condescending?

You're better than that, Steve.

Was a clumsy example, wasn't it? Bad day at the office.

[Cliftonite]

FiF said:

Shakermaker said:

The arrival of the "caravan club" to the local park over the weekend has got the residents all talking on the town Facebook page.

But as with all these things, it is regularly repeated that "trespass is a civil offence not a criminal offence" which got me wondering - what would be the consequences of it becoming a criminal offence? Presumably a different level of evidence required to prove a crime was committed?

Slightly tongue in cheek response, but I reckon if the law were changed to deal with that element, one of the consequences would be the criminalisation of Reg and Doris stopping off on their way to Bridlington in order to let the Rover cool down and took advantage to open up the Eccles Elite behind prepare a refreshing brew of PG Tips and a pork pie salad plus let Fido out for a sniff and a slash. Meanwhile the other "caravan club" would calmly, or probably not so calmly, just flick the V's and carry on regardless.

Cynical? Moi?

I heard a rumour that they made trespass a criminal offence in Ireland and that is why we now have so many more of the other "caravan club" here.

[john2443]

shirt said:

I’m a northerner (Leeds) and fully agree.

I do recall people at school who would pronounce look/luck as Luke but they were ‘sub-optimal’ shall we say and would have made ideal candidates for cannon fodder.

...or Lancastrians as they are more commonly known

(I'm also from Leeds!)

[Lazadude]

Cliftonite said:

I heard a rumour that they made trespass a criminal offence in Ireland and that is why we now have so many more of the other "caravan club" here.

Not a rumour, it is law, it is illegal to "enter and occupy land without the owner’s permission or bring any object on to the land if it is likely to cause “substantial damage”"

When they introduced it, we got a flood of Caravan Utilising Nomadic TravellerS reported in the UK. Funny that.

[Shakermaker]

So have there been any unintended consequences in Ireland since they introduced the law?

[The Mad Monk]

Shakermaker said:

So have there been any unintended consequences in Ireland since they introduced the law?

Or any consequences of any description?

[Shakermaker]

The Mad Monk said:

Shakermaker said:

So have there been any unintended consequences in Ireland since they introduced the law?

Or any consequences of any description?

Well the consequneces have seemingly driven them to come over here in their droves, like I say, they've parked up in the local park and were just driving their vans/pickups around where children play, people walk dogs etc. You know, its a park, the kind of stuff people do in parks. But they shouldn't be there, but clearly, there is not a simple "get out, NOW" type ability that anyone has, and they were there a couple of days before they'd gone, with nothing "done" about it, off they go to their next destination to do the same in the next town etc

• edit - they're still at the park. more of them now.

Edited by Shakermaker on Wednesday 14th August 10:12

[StevieBee]

In the Meatloaf song "I'd do anything for Love" what was it that he wouldn't do?

[Clockwork Cupcake]

StevieBee said:

In the Meatloaf song "I'd do anything for Love" what was it that he wouldn't do?

And I would do anything for love
I'd run right into hell and back
I would do anything for love
I'd never lie to you and that's a fact
But I'll never forget the way you feel right now
Oh no, no way
And I would do anything for love
Oh I would do anything for love
I would do anything for love, but I won't do that
No, I won't do that