Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
You still have to compete for a lot of the schools. Of the 7 or so we have seen, only 2 take children at age 4 without having met them first and assessed them in some way.
In a way, assessing a kid at this age is unusual but also it’s impossible to really coach a kid who is most likely still 3 or only just 4 for the oldest ones. So perhaps it’s actually the very best age to do it?! God knows.
In a way, assessing a kid at this age is unusual but also it’s impossible to really coach a kid who is most likely still 3 or only just 4 for the oldest ones. So perhaps it’s actually the very best age to do it?! God knows.
cheesejunkie said:
Why is it difficult for you to understand?
They’re “stabby” because they don’t include all in the catchment area. So that subsidised education that you give to your kids doesn’t go to the stabby school. It goes to the one you bought your way into to avoid the stabby school. If you couldn’t do that it would not be so stabby and underfunded. It’s not rocket science.
This isn’t how it works. See gentrified areas of London that still have huge stabby issues. Brixton I’m on the doorstep on is a great example. Lots of wealthy people being about the place has changed nothing in gang related problems. They’re “stabby” because they don’t include all in the catchment area. So that subsidised education that you give to your kids doesn’t go to the stabby school. It goes to the one you bought your way into to avoid the stabby school. If you couldn’t do that it would not be so stabby and underfunded. It’s not rocket science.
cheesejunkie said:
Maybe if they didn’t live so socially apart it would be different?
There are examples around the world of how to create more cohesive societies. London’s just not very good at it and part of the reason is it has no desire to because of some of the views on this thread.
Genuinely interested to know where?There are examples around the world of how to create more cohesive societies. London’s just not very good at it and part of the reason is it has no desire to because of some of the views on this thread.
I personally think London is a melting pot that many cities are nothing like which rival London in size and scale. I live moments from council estates yet am in the eyes of society fairly well off, no way is that happening in New York or Paris?
The vibe I’ve had from the schools visited is almost like there is some clandestine (though not negatively so I guess) relationships with schools and that they’ll recommend exactly where your kid should head for senior school to get the best result.
Dulwich Prep have a list of 50 schools they work closely with and one assumes most parents would take their guidance on where to pitch at. Found that interesting.
Dulwich Prep have a list of 50 schools they work closely with and one assumes most parents would take their guidance on where to pitch at. Found that interesting.
I notice that many of the local offerings we are considering are moving to their largest entries being younger and younger, 4-18 is a decent business model!
I had hoped that the cost of living crisis might well free up a bit of room at some of the more difficult to get in schools around Dulwich but it doesn’t seem to have been the case from open days.
My son has a number of the assessments in the next 4-6 months and by the end of Jan we will know initially where he will land, I’m intrigued to know what they can be looking for in what will be a 3.5 year old boy at that time but there we are.
A short confirmation of my actions to avoid the local states took place in the local park the other day when a number of primary age kids were filming themselves smashing a Lime bike into a roundabout in the playground. Despite of course there being numerous toddlers around. I took the bike out of the park and was lambasted by the toothless mother who was smoking weed on the bench just in the edge of the playground. That’s 4 kids who have zero chance of becoming anything. The exact ones that win out the attention war in a school and drag everyone with them. And by their teenage years you can imagine the antics are going to be more serious. Grim.
I had hoped that the cost of living crisis might well free up a bit of room at some of the more difficult to get in schools around Dulwich but it doesn’t seem to have been the case from open days.
My son has a number of the assessments in the next 4-6 months and by the end of Jan we will know initially where he will land, I’m intrigued to know what they can be looking for in what will be a 3.5 year old boy at that time but there we are.
A short confirmation of my actions to avoid the local states took place in the local park the other day when a number of primary age kids were filming themselves smashing a Lime bike into a roundabout in the playground. Despite of course there being numerous toddlers around. I took the bike out of the park and was lambasted by the toothless mother who was smoking weed on the bench just in the edge of the playground. That’s 4 kids who have zero chance of becoming anything. The exact ones that win out the attention war in a school and drag everyone with them. And by their teenage years you can imagine the antics are going to be more serious. Grim.
Bit cringe but yeh. Should have been BBC breakfast surely!
Rapidly approaching the time my son who was 3 in July goes to a load of play based assessments, will find out the lay of the land in Jan with offers/or not, exciting but also probably unlike any other test that one could prepare for there is almost nothing you can do, which feels strange. A 3 year old will listen occasionally but generally they do as they please and can’t really be ‘coached’ all that much. It’ll be an interesting period to see how he gets on.
Rapidly approaching the time my son who was 3 in July goes to a load of play based assessments, will find out the lay of the land in Jan with offers/or not, exciting but also probably unlike any other test that one could prepare for there is almost nothing you can do, which feels strange. A 3 year old will listen occasionally but generally they do as they please and can’t really be ‘coached’ all that much. It’ll be an interesting period to see how he gets on.
M1AGM said:
Why? It might not be at your school (you are somewhere in London I think?) but it is not uncommon for grandparents to be funding the grandchildren's education where I am (we dont have that benefit). Two bursars from two different schools (albeit in the same region - Yorkshire) both made the same comment. Perhaps it is due to location, old money?
My kid isn’t there yet, but will be from next Sept. Just sounds crazily high - yes London based. I know a few people sending their kids from the nursery but I suppose you’re right in that their funding methods are not broadcast. Sadly no help here for that either!
ClaphamGT3 said:
It's not naive at all.
We would all like to see uniformly high performance from the maintained sector but bursaries and scholarships to independent schools provide fantastic opportunities to talented kids and should be encouraged far more than they are
They still have a ways to go here in terms of getting word out and break down the barrier that it’s not exclusively for people with the means. We have a single mother friend with same age kid as mine and she had no idea any of this existed, and said she wouldn’t consider it as she would be ‘the poor one’ - hell, my wife was half put off by being the poor one when we looked around Dulwich College - so lots of social stigmas to break down. We would all like to see uniformly high performance from the maintained sector but bursaries and scholarships to independent schools provide fantastic opportunities to talented kids and should be encouraged far more than they are
Maybe they don’t have the means to offer more? As you’ve read, some of these places have significant means and some are on the brink.
I’d guess a fair number of schools have the cash to pay the whole lot, with a child like that maybe it’s worth your time scoping other options and you may find she gets a near 100% offer?
Using Dulwich again as it’s all easy to find public info - they had in 2021 - 10% of their pupils on bursary’s and half of those on 100%, and two thirds on 75-100%
I’d guess a fair number of schools have the cash to pay the whole lot, with a child like that maybe it’s worth your time scoping other options and you may find she gets a near 100% offer?
Using Dulwich again as it’s all easy to find public info - they had in 2021 - 10% of their pupils on bursary’s and half of those on 100%, and two thirds on 75-100%
turbobloke said:
Which it is...compare and contrast with "boff" anti-achievement culture elsewhere.
Quite. Though never underestimate how important being able to make friends/be someone people want to spend time with is. You can be as smart as you like but if you are useless with people it can still hinder you.
The ideal is of course being bright and charismatic. But if I had to choose - I’d take the latter.
I've walked round 7 or 8 schools and I think the education on what is important or not will come quickly to you after the first couple. Also remember they're pretty polished at giving these tours and act as salespeople to an extent. You'll get a feel for the sort of environment they have quite quickly, and also by the style of show round, we've had powerpoint presentations, pupils showing us, headmaster showing us. All sorts, I think only you can know what you think is right for you and your kid.
Things that were important to me were the facilities they had, what wraparound options they had, what transport options they had (if any), how they prepare kids for on-going options/exams/other schools. What sort of network they had with other schools and what level of recommendations they gave about where my kid would fit best based on said network. The sorts of things they would be exposed to, i.e. forest schools/swimming/sports/etc etc - some schools are very geared to sport, some music and drama, some a mixture etc. You'll have an idea of what you feel is right. Obviously if they have assessments on entry then you can ask about how they manage that, age group differences etc.
If this is not a through school then obviously they'll have a list of on-going schools, which they are, what percentage got scholarships, in what, all quite important for you to able to get an idea of attainment (depending on what age this place goes to of course)
Personally, contrary to the above, I've not judged any school on the other parents there, being London there will be people that are multi millionaires and there will be people that have full bursaries/grandparents paying for it and everything in between - can't control that and not particularly worried about it - but I suppose it depends on how you feel, but the 'pissing contest' element I'm not quite sure of how you'd know about that anyway?
Things that were important to me were the facilities they had, what wraparound options they had, what transport options they had (if any), how they prepare kids for on-going options/exams/other schools. What sort of network they had with other schools and what level of recommendations they gave about where my kid would fit best based on said network. The sorts of things they would be exposed to, i.e. forest schools/swimming/sports/etc etc - some schools are very geared to sport, some music and drama, some a mixture etc. You'll have an idea of what you feel is right. Obviously if they have assessments on entry then you can ask about how they manage that, age group differences etc.
If this is not a through school then obviously they'll have a list of on-going schools, which they are, what percentage got scholarships, in what, all quite important for you to able to get an idea of attainment (depending on what age this place goes to of course)
Personally, contrary to the above, I've not judged any school on the other parents there, being London there will be people that are multi millionaires and there will be people that have full bursaries/grandparents paying for it and everything in between - can't control that and not particularly worried about it - but I suppose it depends on how you feel, but the 'pissing contest' element I'm not quite sure of how you'd know about that anyway?
Edited by okgo on Thursday 5th October 11:16
JimmyConwayNW said:
I can't gel with the red trouser and jumper over the shoulders folks. New money camp here 
I see what you both mean. And yes I’m sure the crowd in South Manc is very much new money Surrey/Essex style. As you say, London tends to avoid that sort of thing in the main which I guess is one thing it has going for it. It’s an undervalued point - I can basically live wherever I want, and if I choose weekly boarding I could be even more flexible with my house choice when kids older. I know a couple of parents who on principle won’t go private, even though they could, but as phib says above they’ve essentially still segregated their kids by buying a house somewhere that only wealthy people like them could afford. It’s private in all but name.
One of our close family got into all the grammars in Tunbridge Wells yet still went to a fairly well known private school on the south coast as the opportunity beyond just exam results was ‘still’ night and day over those grammars, which I understand are some of the better ones.
I think I’d have just flat out enjoyed school more if there was more sport, and more varied teaching and fewer disruptive chavs than there were.
One of our close family got into all the grammars in Tunbridge Wells yet still went to a fairly well known private school on the south coast as the opportunity beyond just exam results was ‘still’ night and day over those grammars, which I understand are some of the better ones.
I think I’d have just flat out enjoyed school more if there was more sport, and more varied teaching and fewer disruptive chavs than there were.
It’s been well covered in the thread. And I suspect it’s a huge part of the reason most people including myself are considering it.
I was partly the class distraction in my secondary years, I would imagine I sucked a huge amount of teacher time and resource from the kids that wanted to be there and learn. I’d have been told (rightly) to Foxtrot Oscar in a paid school and indeed I was told to FO at 6th form, but not in the state secondary.
The lowest common denominators seem to be the eventual winners in many state systems I’ve seen rather than the opposite.
I was partly the class distraction in my secondary years, I would imagine I sucked a huge amount of teacher time and resource from the kids that wanted to be there and learn. I’d have been told (rightly) to Foxtrot Oscar in a paid school and indeed I was told to FO at 6th form, but not in the state secondary.
The lowest common denominators seem to be the eventual winners in many state systems I’ve seen rather than the opposite.
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