Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
beagrizzly said:
Sheepshanks said:
We had a granddaughter in an Outstanding Cheshire primary school and it was hopeless. Her mother is a teacher and became a Governor and still couldn't change things. Granddaughter moved to a private school and it was night and day difference.
What made it 'hopeless'? Seems nuts that a school assessed as outstanding could be failing any pupil.I've recently arranged visits for two pre-schools (private) in my area, and my son is about to be a year old. I've been told they are both full already for his start as early as their early years intake and he will be only on their waiting list. These two schools are were listed in the top 20 in the Times list 2022 (I'm not chasing rankings, just a fact..)
I guess there is a massive shortage of good educators and eventually schools in the country. Considering the fact that, beyond education quality, most schools (especially in London) not safe for kids, having children will become more expensive.
I guess there is a massive shortage of good educators and eventually schools in the country. Considering the fact that, beyond education quality, most schools (especially in London) not safe for kids, having children will become more expensive.
deckster said:
This is probably the wrong place. But it has been quite prominently suggested recently that a single-word rating is entirely inadequate to describe something as complex as an educational establishment that has to cater for hundreds of different, complex, messy human beings and their families.
I have not seen the report, but I highly doubt it is malicious or inadequate. They do have already different complex criteria to arrive at that conclusion. If we start playing with inspections/evaluations, than education quality will reach more "mediocre" levels. This has happened at some universities already, to achieve good national student survey results, they started inflating grades. Talk to any experienced higher education educator today, they would say that the expected outcomes of "first" results, much more lower than 20 years ago. The situation is schools would push the fully responsibility on heads or educators for good inspection results but they can't achieve if there is no proper funding, resources and long-term support from public bodies. ooid said:
Considering the fact that, beyond education quality, most schools (especially in London) not safe for kids, having children will become more expensive.
Crikey, that's quite the statement. I have never had any concerns whatsoever for the safety of my oldest lad. He is in year 8, went to a local (Ofsted outstanding) large primary school then to the local (Outstanding) Comp. His mother then moved them across town so he's in another outstanding comprehensive and is doing very well, described as "gifted" by teachers at parent's evening this week and has a very well-rounded social circle with kids from varied family, class and wealth backgrounds which all become utterly irrelevant as soon as they start kicking a ball, riding their bikes or playing each other at FIFA. I couldn't wish for a better education in terms of academic achievement or life skills.This is in a predominantly working-class South Yorkshire city.
P.S. My youngest is 1 year old so not in school yet before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusion!
ooid said:
deckster said:
This is probably the wrong place. But it has been quite prominently suggested recently that a single-word rating is entirely inadequate to describe something as complex as an educational establishment that has to cater for hundreds of different, complex, messy human beings and their families.
I have not seen the report, but I highly doubt it is malicious or inadequate. They do have already different complex criteria to arrive at that conclusion. If we start playing with inspections/evaluations, than education quality will reach more "mediocre" levels. This has happened at some universities already, to achieve good national student survey results, they started inflating grades. Talk to any experienced higher education educator today, they would say that the expected outcomes of "first" results, much more lower than 20 years ago. The situation is schools would push the fully responsibility on heads or educators for good inspection results but they can't achieve if there is no proper funding, resources and long-term support from public bodies. beagrizzly said:
Sheepshanks said:
We had a granddaughter in an Outstanding Cheshire primary school and it was hopeless. Her mother is a teacher and became a Governor and still couldn't change things. Granddaughter moved to a private school and it was night and day difference.
What made it 'hopeless'? Seems nuts that a school assessed as outstanding could be failing any pupil.State organisations are quite good at being “outstanding” when they know which boxes to tick and when they are only comparing themselves to other state organisations.
Saw this clip on tiktok from a caller into the James O'brien show. Reminded me of this thread.
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJHrEFdj/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJHrEFdj/
GT3Manthey said:
Blib said:
Then, on to university......
Yes there is that and provisions have already been made thankfully plus the use of the student loan means I don’t have to saddled with the monthly payments any longer Another couple of weeks in with Daughter still enjoying the new private school.
Huge culture difference.
I still struggle to see why the state school ( she was at) can't communicate effectively with home. Maybe this is something most schools do but her old one was a broad weekly newsletter about the entire school.
Daughter seems to really love going in, knowing she has a timetable and what she will be doing. One of her highlights has been in English she got to have an 'argument'. Me and her mum found this hilarious as this kid can talk back and argue non stop at home
Because I have had a better idea on what shes doing due to the communication its been a bit easier to assist with planning her week and helping which has led to better results in the weekly spelling and maths tests. She was a s
t for not saying she had spellings / times tables tests at the old school and wouldn't have practised but it wasn't the same day each week and seemed to be sporadic.
Glad to have made the move, so far she seems to be flourishing still feel the state she was at could have very easily solved a good few problems pretty easily, but I am sure many, many good state schools do all these things.
Huge culture difference.
I still struggle to see why the state school ( she was at) can't communicate effectively with home. Maybe this is something most schools do but her old one was a broad weekly newsletter about the entire school.
- How hard is it to type a brief email with an overview of whats gone on that week? Private school does this and its great to know what shes doing.
- Sports - She is loving sports, team games and fixtures and been selected for a couple of games against other schools. Her state didn't do any sports against other schools. I remember back when I was at primary I used to play football against other schools, cross country and sure we did athletics. We had a very sporty teacher. At state is it just down to if any teachers can be bothered and its kind of down to them? IE if the head is unsporty its not going to be a huge priority?
Daughter seems to really love going in, knowing she has a timetable and what she will be doing. One of her highlights has been in English she got to have an 'argument'. Me and her mum found this hilarious as this kid can talk back and argue non stop at home
Because I have had a better idea on what shes doing due to the communication its been a bit easier to assist with planning her week and helping which has led to better results in the weekly spelling and maths tests. She was a s
t for not saying she had spellings / times tables tests at the old school and wouldn't have practised but it wasn't the same day each week and seemed to be sporadic.Glad to have made the move, so far she seems to be flourishing still feel the state she was at could have very easily solved a good few problems pretty easily, but I am sure many, many good state schools do all these things.
We have almost certainly written off the state options now, have been to see the local two and they were nothing that special. Massive classes, huge range of ages together (blending of two year groups), distinct lack of facilities and space. All what you'd expect in Z2 London.
I've visited a number of schools in more built up areas, and now also a range of those in more leafy parts of the area (Dulwich namely) and honestly some of the latter schools have such an embarrassment of riches in terms of facilities that they make some of the other paid options in say Clapham look quite lacking. One thing I've found is how diversity changes through areas and schools, it really is a case by case, it isn't ruled only by money as they all cost about the same, but there must be a lot more to it that means most of the kids in certain schools are white british vs others being much more diverse.
The next tricky thing that we're having to think/decide on is boys school vs co-ed. The different age groupings that brings, and also what we think long term of that given in the real world there are also females, unless you work in car sales. My leaning is that if it wasn't vaguely sensible as a concept then we'd have stopped doing it in this day and age, my wife who went to girls schools thought that it wasn't particularly healthy and lots of the girls went a bit mad when they got into 6th form/uni because of it. Obviously all the heads have their pitch as to why it works/why it doesn't - anyone had their mind turned on this?
I've visited a number of schools in more built up areas, and now also a range of those in more leafy parts of the area (Dulwich namely) and honestly some of the latter schools have such an embarrassment of riches in terms of facilities that they make some of the other paid options in say Clapham look quite lacking. One thing I've found is how diversity changes through areas and schools, it really is a case by case, it isn't ruled only by money as they all cost about the same, but there must be a lot more to it that means most of the kids in certain schools are white british vs others being much more diverse.
The next tricky thing that we're having to think/decide on is boys school vs co-ed. The different age groupings that brings, and also what we think long term of that given in the real world there are also females, unless you work in car sales. My leaning is that if it wasn't vaguely sensible as a concept then we'd have stopped doing it in this day and age, my wife who went to girls schools thought that it wasn't particularly healthy and lots of the girls went a bit mad when they got into 6th form/uni because of it. Obviously all the heads have their pitch as to why it works/why it doesn't - anyone had their mind turned on this?
okgo said:
The next tricky thing that we're having to think/decide on is boys school vs co-ed. The different age groupings that brings, and also what we think long term of that given in the real world there are also females, unless you work in car sales. My leaning is that if it wasn't vaguely sensible as a concept then we'd have stopped doing it in this day and age, my wife who went to girls schools thought that it wasn't particularly healthy and lots of the girls went a bit mad when they got into 6th form/uni because of it. Obviously all the heads have their pitch as to why it works/why it doesn't - anyone had their mind turned on this?
Boys school.Lady Balfour is a teacher and she would have it that time and time again boys do better in boys schools. Invariably there are girls’ schools nearby, so they can mix if they wish. But academically boys do better when separated from the girls.
okgo said:
.... my wife who went to girls schools thought that it wasn't particularly healthy and lots of the girls went a bit mad when they got into 6th form/uni because of it. Obviously all the heads have their pitch as to why it works/why it doesn't - anyone had their mind turned on this?
One of my daughters teaches at a girls' grammar school and she can't believe how much better, in terms of lack of stress for the kids, it is than mixed.They do have a significant issue with girls moving to the boys 6th form though, especially as it pretty well doesn't happen in reverse.
deckster said:
beagrizzly said:
Sheepshanks said:
We had a granddaughter in an Outstanding Cheshire primary school and it was hopeless. Her mother is a teacher and became a Governor and still couldn't change things. Granddaughter moved to a private school and it was night and day difference.
What made it 'hopeless'? Seems nuts that a school assessed as outstanding could be failing any pupil.In simple terms what you get is non unionised indoctrinating teachers, fewer crap parents (you definitely do get some crap parents in private schools who try to bulldoze issues with cash), great range of activities and sport, endless competition, lovely facilities, no strikes, no 5 hour days, no caravan dwellers etc.
There is a reason why people shop in Waitrose and not Lidl and it has nothing to do with prices.
I went to an all boys secondary school and turned out OK (I think???) Don't feel like I missed out on anything.
For primary school I don't think it matters either way, from what I've seen when groups of young kids play together the boys tend to only run around and play with other boys anyway.
For primary school I don't think it matters either way, from what I've seen when groups of young kids play together the boys tend to only run around and play with other boys anyway.
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