Wife wants sprog Christened - I don't.
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Of course it's dishonest. It's the same in any church school. 10% the kids are the children of Christians, and 90% of the kids are the children of liars.
As an observation, CoE schools are often part of the standard school system in England. Not that CoE schools are very religious - a few songs/hymns and an ethical tale at assembly in my experience.S10GTA said:
GTO Scott said:
Jasandjules said:
Not sure how a child represents a failure however I don't think it would be right of your wife to insist on a religious ceremony for your child if that is not your wish. What about a non-religious naming ceremony as a compromise?
I'm too selfish to deal with having a child. A child will get in the way of what I want from life, in terms of where I can go, what I can buy and how I can live. Life was getting close to how I wanted it - own house, wife, and Labrador. Harry (the Labrador) is my substitute for a child - he is my boy, doesn't need clothes (grows his own), doesn't need to go to school, is excited by the prospect of eating left-overs, gives unconditional affection even when he's just had a bking, and wants nothing more complex than a tennis ball to play with.Children are much more expensive.
As for a non-religious ceremony, she won't have that. Has to be a christening, has to be in a certain church.
We got married at Pendennis Castle - so no religious element in the marriage.
The lad has his views on life, they differ from yours. Keep your opinion to yourself in future, you'll do everyone around you a big favour.
ClaphamGT3 said:
Grenoble said:
As an observation, CoE schools are often part of the standard school system in England. Not that CoE schools are very religious - a few songs/hymns and an ethical tale at assembly in my experience.
As a governor of a CofE primary school, very much this.1. C of E christened kids in the area
2. Christened kids of other christian denominations in the area
3. Kids of other faiths in the area
4, 5 &6. As above but out of the area.
7. Kids of parents of no faith in the area
8. As above, out of area.
In short, even though it's on my doorstep, Abu Hamza's kids get preference over mine.
GTO Scott said:
Jasandjules said:
Not sure how a child represents a failure however I don't think it would be right of your wife to insist on a religious ceremony for your child if that is not your wish. What about a non-religious naming ceremony as a compromise?
I'm too selfish to deal with having a child. A child will get in the way of what I want from life, in terms of where I can go, what I can buy and how I can live. Life was getting close to how I wanted it - own house, wife, and Labrador. Harry (the Labrador) is my substitute for a child - he is my boy, doesn't need clothes (grows his own), doesn't need to go to school, is excited by the prospect of eating left-overs, gives unconditional affection even when he's just had a bking, and wants nothing more complex than a tennis ball to play with.Children are much more expensive.
As for a non-religious ceremony, she won't have that. Has to be a christening, has to be in a certain church.
We got married at Pendennis Castle - so no religious element in the marriage.
I admit I wasn't exactly the most paternal of men but having a baby girl at the start of this year has been the making of me.
She is hard work at times but is ace.
I just don't understand why you put so much weight on a ceremony that by your own admission is complete bks? If you don't believe in the power the ceremony is believed to impart, then why is it such a risk to the beliefs of your child? How much of your life before the age of 1 do you remember and use to shape decisions about your life today?
Her being Christened isn't going to make one iota of difference to what beliefs she grows up with. Now if your wife was saying she was going to take the kid to Church every week, send her to a faith school and off to Bible camp every summer, then I could understand.
Her being Christened isn't going to make one iota of difference to what beliefs she grows up with. Now if your wife was saying she was going to take the kid to Church every week, send her to a faith school and off to Bible camp every summer, then I could understand.
I think the OP should be cut a little slack, he can't help the way he feels and I admire his honesty. As far as I can tell he isn't going to kick his wife and child out onto the streets on birth day. While he has his obvious reservations about children he has indicated he wishes to do his best.
I sympathize with your plight as a fellow atheist, although I took greater care in choosing an OH who doesn't care for religion or the number 13.
I don't know what the answer is but surely a compromise can be reached maybe in the form of a non-religious naming day with the outlook that she can decide in the future for herself if she wishes to be christened. If she can't agree to that and you can't let it go (and I don't see why you should if you are open to compromise) then yes you have a problem.
My two biggest problems with religion are being preached to and parents forcing their beliefs onto their innocent children.
However it turns out I wish you all the best and hopefully you'll warm to the idea of kids as you spend more time with your daughter.
I sympathize with your plight as a fellow atheist, although I took greater care in choosing an OH who doesn't care for religion or the number 13.
I don't know what the answer is but surely a compromise can be reached maybe in the form of a non-religious naming day with the outlook that she can decide in the future for herself if she wishes to be christened. If she can't agree to that and you can't let it go (and I don't see why you should if you are open to compromise) then yes you have a problem.
My two biggest problems with religion are being preached to and parents forcing their beliefs onto their innocent children.
However it turns out I wish you all the best and hopefully you'll warm to the idea of kids as you spend more time with your daughter.
Cock Womble 7 said:
GTO Scott said:
A lot of people have told me I will change my opinions when sprog is here, and in a years time I'll look back and think about how I feel now and call myself an idiot for feeling like it at all. I genuinely hope this is the case - no child should grow up without a pair of loving parents. But as the time draws near I find my feelings against children getting stronger, and, being totally truthful, the whole concept of fatherhood scares the st out of me.
Your views on fatherhood (and Christening, for that matter) seem to be exactly the same as mine.The only difference is, I've managed to get through multiple partners and a couple of wives without getting any of them pregnant - simply because I knew my own views on fatherhood and didn't want children.
They do say that having your own children changes your view. I sincerely hope, for your sake, that this is the case.
vixen1700 said:
I don't believe in God or Christianity, but love a good Christmas dinner and some party games afterwards like Charades, could you not think of the Christening in a similar way?
That's roughly the way my wife's family have put it - I do understand it but I just don't see what the issue is with letting the child choose when she is old enough. I suppose it's just a case of forgetting my own beliefs in order to make another happy. I just wish sometimes it worked the other way.
GTO Scott said:
That's roughly the way my wife's family have put it - I do understand it but I just don't see what the issue is with letting the child choose when she is old enough.
Do you really think being Christened is going to prevent your child from choosing her own way when she is old enough? Especially if her Dad is always there to remind her that she should always question things and make her own mind up?GTO Scott said:
I suppose it's just a case of forgetting my own beliefs in order to make another happy. I just wish sometimes it worked the other way.
Now that, I can understand! elvismiggell said:
Do you really think being Christened is going to prevent your child from choosing her own way when she is old enough? Especially if her Dad is always there to remind her that she should always question things and make her own mind up?
No, but I just don't see the reasoning in going for it so quickly. I mean, she's not even born yet, why not get the actual birth done, dusted and all health checks done, make sure she's well and has no medical issues etc before organising having her christened? I just can't see any need to rush it. [Edit: Ballsed up the quotes]
Followed this all day and here's my thoughts for the OP as someone who isn't religious nor christened but my daughters are.
When the topic arose I, like you, couldn't see the point and thought why do it now? Why can't we leave it until they're old enough to make their mind up? (sound familiar?)
Anyway for the sake of matrimonial harmony I let it slide and they were christened.
At the event, I was there, I held my daughters tiny hand but didn't actually take part in the ceremony.
It is not something that you believe will ever effect your child's future life but will give your wife and your wives family great comfort in letting them think that they are doing everything right to protect the child.
From your perspective it's not as though they're asking it to be circumcised (sp?) or anything.
Then to take your poit when they are old enough they can choose if they want to accept christianity into their lives by being confirmed.
As far as I am aware (i got divorced whenthe youngest was 2) neither of my daughters has ever been inside a church apart from weddings, christenings and funerals and their christening has absolutely zero impact or effect on their lives (they're now 17 and 20).
So, yes you and I aren't/weren't happy about it but is it really worth allowing this ancient jumbo jumbo worthless rite to be the cause of a massive falling out with your wife and her family?
Surely there's bigger st to fry?
When the topic arose I, like you, couldn't see the point and thought why do it now? Why can't we leave it until they're old enough to make their mind up? (sound familiar?)
Anyway for the sake of matrimonial harmony I let it slide and they were christened.
At the event, I was there, I held my daughters tiny hand but didn't actually take part in the ceremony.
It is not something that you believe will ever effect your child's future life but will give your wife and your wives family great comfort in letting them think that they are doing everything right to protect the child.
From your perspective it's not as though they're asking it to be circumcised (sp?) or anything.
Then to take your poit when they are old enough they can choose if they want to accept christianity into their lives by being confirmed.
As far as I am aware (i got divorced whenthe youngest was 2) neither of my daughters has ever been inside a church apart from weddings, christenings and funerals and their christening has absolutely zero impact or effect on their lives (they're now 17 and 20).
So, yes you and I aren't/weren't happy about it but is it really worth allowing this ancient jumbo jumbo worthless rite to be the cause of a massive falling out with your wife and her family?
Surely there's bigger st to fry?
GTO Scott said:
No, but I just don't see the reasoning in going for it so quickly. I mean, she's not even born yet, why not get the actual birth done, dusted and all health checks done, make sure she's well and has no medical issues etc before organising having her christened? I just can't see any need to rush it.
[Edit: Ballsed up the quotes]
I'd guess it's the element of having something to do.[Edit: Ballsed up the quotes]
She can't exactly organise the birth or the health checks now, so maybe just a case of idle hands etc?
Combine that with Christening traditionally being done soon after birth. (I was Christened about 4 weeks after birth I think.)
So I guess what I'm saying is, what's the harm?
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