Discussion
The Scottish Poppies are made by The Lady Haig Poppy Factory. 40 Ex-servicemen employed and a huge amount of good done by the simple purchase of a poppy.
Gargamel said:
Though I think the day I wore my poppy (with pride) to our offices in Switzerland may have been a mistake. Had to explain it to several German Colleagues...slightly awks.
We had Getman colleagues working with us in the UK one November. They asked, we explained, they wore one the next day. They sent pictures of the whole German office wearing them the next year.ali_kat said:
Gargamel said:
Though I think the day I wore my poppy (with pride) to our offices in Switzerland may have been a mistake. Had to explain it to several German Colleagues...slightly awks.
We had Getman colleagues working with us in the UK one November. They asked, we explained, they wore one the next day. They sent pictures of the whole German office wearing them the next year.I believe its the actual SHOWING of remembrance that's important.
The silence, poppy, wristband etc. is a statement - I will not forget. If we keep the act of remembrance in our heads, if we don't commit to show it, how will others be prompted to think about why ?
The previous post for me says it all - The German peeps saw the ACT of remembrance and it made them think and then make their own visible display of remembering.
We must remember those who died (on all sides)because if we don't the sacrifice could lose its meaning.
If any one person forgets then the sacrifice loses its meaning.
The poppy and the silence makes us remember.
If nothing else - do it so others ask why.
The silence, poppy, wristband etc. is a statement - I will not forget. If we keep the act of remembrance in our heads, if we don't commit to show it, how will others be prompted to think about why ?
The previous post for me says it all - The German peeps saw the ACT of remembrance and it made them think and then make their own visible display of remembering.
We must remember those who died (on all sides)because if we don't the sacrifice could lose its meaning.
If any one person forgets then the sacrifice loses its meaning.
The poppy and the silence makes us remember.
If nothing else - do it so others ask why.
beefcake42 said:
The poppy and the silence makes us remember.
If nothing else - do it so others ask why.
We are bombarded by media images of war, loss and suffering, both historical and current in a way which wasn't conceived when Remembrance Sunday was put in place. News channels, the film industry, TV documentaries, books, music, mainstream marketing of charities which raise money for veterans... Even the WW1 poets weren't really brought into the national consciousness until the 60's and are read by more kids now than after the Great War. If nothing else - do it so others ask why.
The risk is that in a society where people are given so much freedom in making choices, we start shaming people into partaking in a ritual. The assumption is that a poppy wearer remembers and a non-wearer is ambivalent (or "scum" if you look at one of the posts above). The irony of sternly pressurising the nation to conform in order to appreciate freedom is plain to see. Does anyone think that the war dead would look at us quibbling about symbolism, paper flowers and "the correct way to remember" without shaking their heads in disbelief?
I'd be horrified if my kids became so distanced from both family and national suffering through war that observing a national annual tradition was enough. They will be brought up to understand past sacrifice and suffering to inform their future choices, personal and political to protect a free democracy. That's the point of learning history.
ali_kat said:
We had Getman colleagues working with us in the UK one November. They asked, we explained, they wore one the next day. They sent pictures of the whole German office wearing them the next year.
Well I have to say, that's the most thought provoking comment on this thread so far.Their country also would undoubtedly be very different now had Germany won either war. I guess we rarely think of that.
Respect to your German colleagues.
captainzep said:
beefcake42 said:
The poppy and the silence makes us remember.
If nothing else - do it so others ask why.
We are bombarded by media images of war, loss and suffering, both historical and current in a way which wasn't conceived when Remembrance Sunday was put in place. News channels, the film industry, TV documentaries, books, music, mainstream marketing of charities which raise money for veterans... Even the WW1 poets weren't really brought into the national consciousness until the 60's and are read by more kids now than after the Great War. If nothing else - do it so others ask why.
The risk is that in a society where people are given so much freedom in making choices, we start shaming people into partaking in a ritual. The assumption is that a poppy wearer remembers and a non-wearer is ambivalent (or "scum" if you look at one of the posts above). The irony of sternly pressurising the nation to conform in order to appreciate freedom is plain to see. Does anyone think that the war dead would look at us quibbling about symbolism, paper flowers and "the correct way to remember" without shaking their heads in disbelief?
I'd be horrified if my kids became so distanced from both family and national suffering through war that observing a national annual tradition was enough. They will be brought up to understand past sacrifice and suffering to inform their future choices, personal and political to protect a free democracy. That's the point of learning history.
Everyone knows when the silence takes place. You say yourself that we are bombarded with information. So it is not remotely difficult to accommodate the wishes of those who do want to remember during a two minute silence, once a year.
captainzep said:
The irony of sternly pressurising the nation to conform in order to appreciate freedom is plain to see. Does anyone think that the war dead would look at us quibbling about symbolism, paper flowers and "the correct way to remember" without shaking their heads in disbelief?
I'd be horrified if my kids became so distanced from both family and national suffering through war that observing a national annual tradition was enough. They will be brought up to understand past sacrifice and suffering to inform their future choices, personal and political to protect a free democracy. That's the point of learning history.
What about the kids who aren't brought up with an understanding of what it is all about? I would hate to think people's view of war is based on what they learn from 'the media' rather than thought and consideration.I'd be horrified if my kids became so distanced from both family and national suffering through war that observing a national annual tradition was enough. They will be brought up to understand past sacrifice and suffering to inform their future choices, personal and political to protect a free democracy. That's the point of learning history.
We have an obsession with ourselves and our point of view in this country. Would the German people as mentioned above asked a question about the poppy if they hadn't seen it?
I doubt it very much.
For me the poppy/silence etc. should make those who see it ask a question.
Why?
That's why it is worth wearing and keeping as a 'ritual' we perform. If we stopped the outward expression of remembrance how many generations would it be before it got forgotten?
danjama said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
The obsession with this over recent years is incredible, and not in a good way in my opinion.
I think it's a reaction to other social changes...Tannedbaldhead said:
danjama said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
The obsession with this over recent years is incredible, and not in a good way in my opinion.
I think it's a reaction to other social changes...
Absolutely.To me, remembrance should be a a quiet time of personal thought and solitude.
I really do believe the public grieving movement instigated by Dianna's death has fundamentally changed the nations attitude to such things.
FredClogs said:
I'm not sure I really understand what it's all about, seems that the British Legion is not the only charity that supports ex servicemen, several other have sprung up in competition which would suggest they weren't doing a great job, I'm not sure what ex service men really need is cheap subsidised beer and badly looked after snooker tables.
If that's all you think the Legion is then you are sadly misinformed (or, more likely) wilfully ignorant. The Legion works closely with Service Charities such as RAFA, BLESMA, St Dunstan's and SSAFA. The fact that other charities have 'sprung up, (specifically Help For Heroes) is in no way indicative that the Legion 'weren't doing a great job', but more to do with the fact that we have been on constant combat operatons for over 20 years, coupled with the misguided assumption by many that the Legion only helps veterans of the 2 world wars. You might be surprised to learn that Help For Heroes is specifically not interested in veterans prior to Ops TELIC and HERRICK (Iraq 2 and Afghanistan).It is also worth pointing out that every penny raised via the Poppy Appeal is ring fenced for welfare work, not one penny of it goes towards Staff costs. This is very different from several of the 'Johnny come lately' charities that have appeared in recent years where much of what is donated goes nowhere near helping current and ex servicemen and women.
Finally your rather cheap and underhand quip about 'cheap beer and snooker tables' shows that you have absolutey no understanding of how the law pertains to Charities being able to fund raise for themselves, nor do you seem to have any understanding of the fact that ex Services social clubs such as those run by the Legion provide a very needed lifeline and support network.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
FredClogs said:
I'm not sure I really understand what it's all about, seems that the British Legion is not the only charity that supports ex servicemen, several other have sprung up in competition which would suggest they weren't doing a great job, I'm not sure what ex service men really need is cheap subsidised beer and badly looked after snooker tables.
If that's all you think the Legion is then you are sadly misinformed (or, more likely) wilfully ignorant. The Legion works closely with Service Charities such as RAFA, BLESMA, St Dunstan's and SSAFA. The fact that other charities have 'sprung up, (specifically Help For Heroes) is in no way indicative that the Legion 'weren't doing a great job', but more to do with the fact that we have been on constant combat operatons for over 20 years, coupled with the misguided assumption by many that the Legion only helps veterans of the 2 world wars. You might be surprised to learn that Help For Heroes is specifically not interested in veterans prior to Ops TELIC and HERRICK (Iraq 2 and Afghanistan).It is also worth pointing out that every penny raised via the Poppy Appeal is ring fenced for welfare work, not one penny of it goes towards Staff costs. This is very different from several of the 'Johnny come lately' charities that have appeared in recent years where much of what is donated goes nowhere near helping current and ex servicemen and women.
Finally your rather cheap and underhand quip about 'cheap beer and snooker tables' shows that you have absolutey no understanding of how the law pertains to Charities being able to fund raise for themselves, nor do you seem to have any understanding of the fact that ex Services social clubs such as those run by the Legion provide a very needed lifeline and support network.
OldSpice said:
bingybongy said:
A shop local to me (hippies) sells white poppies. f
k knows what they are for and i have never seen anyone wearing one.
I'll look it up when I can be bothered.
I drop my shrapnel into the poppy box every round at the pub / shopping visit. I don't wear a poppy though.
I believe that it's worn as a symbol of peace or something similar. There are also purple poppies to remember the animals that have died in conflict.k knows what they are for and i have never seen anyone wearing one.I'll look it up when I can be bothered.
I drop my shrapnel into the poppy box every round at the pub / shopping visit. I don't wear a poppy though.
Amongst teens and lefties
Thankfully died out
Countdown said:
badgers_back said:
There was a nasty outbreak of wearing white poppies late 80s early 90s..
Amongst teens and lefties
Thankfully died out
What's wrong with white poppies?Amongst teens and lefties
Thankfully died out
Any yourself???
Separate occasion for white poppies??
PurpleMoonlight said:
ali_kat said:
We had Getman colleagues working with us in the UK one November. They asked, we explained, they wore one the next day. They sent pictures of the whole German office wearing them the next year.
Well I have to say, that's the most thought provoking comment on this thread so far.Their country also would undoubtedly be very different now had Germany won either war. I guess we rarely think of that.
Respect to your German colleagues.
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