Things that annoy you beyond reason...? [Vol 3]
Discussion
markmullen said:
Exactly. The point of rear fogs is for the car behind to see you in fog. If they're 10 car lengths back and can see you perfectly well there is no point in having them on. It winds me up, similarly people in the middle of town, in a queue, with rear fogs on. Thanks for that, I just couldn't see you 10 foot behind you without that massive red light.
When I'm driving in thick fog, in most cases, there tends to be traffic - which by it's very nature, tends to be somewhat inconsistent. Switching the fog light on and off depending on whether I believe the person behind me can see me or not, is madness. Better to leave it on than off. And if he's 10 car lengths behind me, he's not suffering from the glare anyway.I can almost see the point you're making if I was to be driving on an A road and had a car keeping pace with me, in the fog, and who stayed a consistent distance behind me, and who is obviously aware of my presence. That occurs very rarely though, and ignores the fact that it's not just the car behind I want to see me, it's the one behind that, etc.
Of course, where there is heavy fog in a city, and you're stuck in congestion, then of course it gets switched off, but otherwise it should stay on until visibility is sufficient for it to be switched off.
had ham said:
When I'm driving in thick fog, in most cases, there tends to be traffic - which by it's very nature, tends to be somewhat inconsistent. Switching the fog light on and off depending on whether I believe the person behind me can see me or not, is madness. Better to leave it on than off. And if he's 10 car lengths behind me, he's not suffering from the glare anyway.
I can almost see the point you're making if I was to be driving on an A road and had a car keeping pace with me, in the fog, and who stayed a consistent distance behind me, and who is obviously aware of my presence. That occurs very rarely though, and ignores the fact that it's not just the car behind I want to see me, it's the one behind that, etc.
Of course, where there is heavy fog in a city, and you're stuck in congestion, then of course it gets switched off, but otherwise it should stay on until visibility is sufficient for it to be switched off.
I think the scenario that most of us who are advocating turning them off are talking about are motorways and around town. I can almost see the point you're making if I was to be driving on an A road and had a car keeping pace with me, in the fog, and who stayed a consistent distance behind me, and who is obviously aware of my presence. That occurs very rarely though, and ignores the fact that it's not just the car behind I want to see me, it's the one behind that, etc.
Of course, where there is heavy fog in a city, and you're stuck in congestion, then of course it gets switched off, but otherwise it should stay on until visibility is sufficient for it to be switched off.
In town yes, on a motorway- never. There's way too much overtaking, people joining on slips, etc - and all at relatively high speed, with significant speed variation between vehicles. It's the one environment where they are probably more important than anywhere else.
And if the chap behind is suffering from the glare, then he's too close - hopefully will make him back off.
And if the chap behind is suffering from the glare, then he's too close - hopefully will make him back off.
Stickyfinger said:
had ham said:
And if the chap behind is suffering from the glare, then he's too close - hopefully will make him back off.
total rubbish.....if he can see you turn them offThe Spruce goose said:
people who think m-sport, amgb(trim) and s-line are more than trims.
also how bland and unconnected modern cars are..
People who own very common cars like Audi and BMW's and think we give an ARSE about their little badgesalso how bland and unconnected modern cars are..
MartG said:
When driving in fog etc. I'd rather concentrate on where I'm going, not how close the car behind is and whether or not he and the cars behind him can see me or not
maybe if you were not blinding him with the fog lamps he would see your brake lights and you would not need to worry?Really, you cannot look, asses distance/visibility and touch a switch in a safe way ? what are you doing that takes up so much concentration you cannot use the controls at hand without looking ?
Edited by Stickyfinger on Friday 9th October 17:49
MartG said:
When driving in fog etc. I'd rather concentrate on where I'm going, not how close the car behind is and whether or not he and the cars behind him can see me or not
If you are maxed out on your concentration with just seeing where you're going, you're either driving too fast for the conditions or else you are incompetent to drive. Spacial awareness and situational awareness are an essential part of driving.
MartG said:
JonRB said:
If you are maxed out on your concentration with just seeing where you're going......
Maybe I'm just trying to see the car ahead because the t
t hasn't put his foglights on.... 
Either way, your attitude demonstrates a poor standard of driving.
JonRB said:
If you are maxed out on your concentration with just seeing where you're going, you're either driving too fast for the conditions or else you are incompetent to drive.
Are you adamant about this?I find sometimes in thick fog when I'm creeping along at 10mph I have absolutely no spare attention at all. Couldn't really care less about the person behind as I'm trying to avoid a head-on with another car. Does this mean I'm an incompetent driver?
popeyewhite said:
Are you adamant about this?
I find sometimes in thick fog when I'm creeping along at 10mph I have absolutely no spare attention at all. Couldn't really care less about the person behind as I'm trying to avoid a head-on with another car. Does this mean I'm an incompetent driver?
No, I'm not adamant about this because driving is not something that can be done by a rigid set of rules. I can no more proscribe the answer to absolutely every circumstance than the Highway Code can. Thinking that it can be is what is dumbing down driving and causing many drivers to lose the ability to think for themselves. I find sometimes in thick fog when I'm creeping along at 10mph I have absolutely no spare attention at all. Couldn't really care less about the person behind as I'm trying to avoid a head-on with another car. Does this mean I'm an incompetent driver?
However, you are talking about a pretty extreme edge case. This doesn't mean that my remarks are invalidated for the majority of cases.
FOG LIGHTS. I think that we are over complicating a very simple process.
We already have more than enough to concentrate on without additional concerns such as 'Can the bloke behind see my rear fog lights?'
I use the above as a general example of all the points PHers have made. I think it sums it up succinctly.
I will end by saying that when in fog, use your fog lights at all times. Notwithstanding the times when you should switch them off, eg:
When the fog becomes much lighter/when in heavy traffic or, the obvious one, when the fog lifts completely.
We already have more than enough to concentrate on without additional concerns such as 'Can the bloke behind see my rear fog lights?'
I use the above as a general example of all the points PHers have made. I think it sums it up succinctly.
I will end by saying that when in fog, use your fog lights at all times. Notwithstanding the times when you should switch them off, eg:
When the fog becomes much lighter/when in heavy traffic or, the obvious one, when the fog lifts completely.
Edited by WD39 on Friday 9th October 18:31
Edited by WD39 on Friday 9th October 18:32
JonRB said:
MartG said:
JonRB said:
If you are maxed out on your concentration with just seeing where you're going......
Maybe I'm just trying to see the car ahead because the tt hasn't put his foglights on.... Either way, your attitude demonstrates a poor standard of driving.
MartG said:
I'd argue the opposite - that I'm concentrating on what is important, not what the numpty behind me is up to, even if he is driving way too close to me for the conditions
I think we'll have to disagree there. We've both stated our positions, and that seems to be it. I'd suggest that being mindful of the cars around you is an important part of safe, defensive driving. However, I respect the fact that you feel that you must give all of your concentration to what you consider the most important. But just as a word of experience, I once avoided a serious rear end shunt on a motorway when there was emergency braking ahead, and I noticed in the rear view mirror that "some numpty" hadn't seen it and hadn't started braking yet, and then the nose of his car dip as he finally did brake. I made a split-second judgement that he hadn't a hope in hell of stopping in time in my lane and dived into the hard shoulder. He, meanwhile, did an emergency lane change into the outer lane which had slightly more braking distance and did stop in time, but significantly beyond where I had been, had he stayed in my lane.
So I would submit to you that being aware of the cars behind you is an important thing.
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