Is anyone else not ambitious

[markcoznottz]

Monkeylegend said:

markcoznottz said:

Monkeylegend said:

markcoznottz said:

Monkeylegend said:

One of the themes in these type of threads is so many stating they could do their managers job better then the manager themselves can, yet these people have never been in a management role to make that judgement.

A monkey could do better than most uk middle management.

I doubt that

Well there can't be much in it. Anecdotal or not, most uk management seem to always do the exact opposite of what they should do. Rather than enabling staff, the system in the main seensto be about putting as much distance as possible between the 'shop floor' and the management level.

Sweeping statements like that mean nothing unless you have a detailed insight and experience of all UK industry and management, which I doubt you do.

I'd love to meet someone who has a boss they admire/like/respect, but I never do.

[Monkeylegend]

markcoznottz said:

Monkeylegend said:

markcoznottz said:

Monkeylegend said:

markcoznottz said:

Monkeylegend said:

One of the themes in these type of threads is so many stating they could do their managers job better then the manager themselves can, yet these people have never been in a management role to make that judgement.

A monkey could do better than most uk middle management.

I doubt that

Well there can't be much in it. Anecdotal or not, most uk management seem to always do the exact opposite of what they should do. Rather than enabling staff, the system in the main seensto be about putting as much distance as possible between the 'shop floor' and the management level.

Sweeping statements like that mean nothing unless you have a detailed insight and experience of all UK industry and management, which I doubt you do.

I'd love to meet someone who has a boss they admire/like/respect, but I never do.

That's hardly conclusive, you just haven't met the right people

Out of interest do you work at or have you held a management position?

[RizzoTheRat]

markcoznottz said:

I'd love to meet someone who has a boss they admire/like/respect, but I never do.

In 30 or so years of working for several different employers I've had one (well technically 2 as I worked for the same bloke at 2 different companies) boss who was a bit of a pain in the arse at times, as in I always felt he had is own best interests at heart rather than his staffs. Other than that I've always had bosses I've admired/liked/respected.

If you're working for aholes maybe it's time to look for another job.

[Countdown]

markcoznottz said:

I'd love to meet someone who has a boss they admire/like/respect, but I never do.

Without wishing to be deliberately contradictory most of my bosses have been good, and two have been great.

Working for a crap boss suggests a few things;

1. You're a bad judge of character.
2. he might well be crap but he's clearly doing better than "you"
3. You're not capable of finding a job elsewhere.

I don't mean YOU specifically, just people who slag off "the management". There are indeed crap managers out there but they get found out over time.

[Plymo]

I used to be very ambitious but I seem to have "plateaued" as it were. My job at the moment is ideal, I have a fair degree of autonomy and responsibility, and I do it well. I've moved, taken pay cuts to get in with the right company and worked hard, and ended up moving again to get promotion quicker.
I still have a (very pleasant and patient) boss to turn to when the st hits the fan though!
It's not laziness, as I spend a lot of time training for the next rung up, and I will continue training and most probably take the required exams as well, but I don't reckon I can handle the responsibility of the job and also the inevitable politics and backstabbing that's rampant at that level.
Perhaps in another 5 years or so I'll get the experience to handle it all but at the moment the ambition is not there.

[Pothole]

kiethton said:

Condi said:

kiethton said:

Very much a function of your stage in life and geographic location is it not.

I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.

Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.

The median wage for inner London is only £34k, if as a couple, you're on over £110k a year and still struggle how on earth do 75% of the rest of the population live?

(Source https://www.cityam.com/where-can-you-earn-most-uk-...

Thats my point - I don't understand how, if not for tax credits, top-up's etc.

More frugally!! WTF do you spend it on, we know it's not transport!

[Deep Thought]

markcoznottz said:

I'd love to meet someone who has a boss they admire/like/respect, but I never do.

I've had many managers i admire / like respect. In fact i've only had a few who were complete dolts. The last guy was last year and he was put out of the company in 3 months. He was a weapons grade dick. But generally, out of maybe 20-30 managers over the years i'd say there were only one or two who were bad at their jobs.

Maybe the problem isnt all your managers....

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 28th June 00:12

[Deep Thought]

I've no urge any longer to get high up in to management, having been very technical in IT for a couple of decades then moving in to IT Management and getting to IT Director level.

It wasnt for me and i now am an IT contractor. All of the money, none of the hassle.

[fridaypassion]

Deep Thought said:

I've had many managers i admire / like respect. In fact i've only had a few who were complete dolts. The last guy was last year and he was put out of the company in 3 months. He was a weapons grade dick. But generally, out of maybe 20-30 managers over the years i'd say there were only one or two who were bad at their jobs.

Maybe the problem isnt all your managers....

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 28th June 00:12

I've had a good mix. 20 years ago I worked at an internet startup with some really great people. Learned a lot and am still good mates with 2 of the 4 main directors all these years later. Really inspiring people with very good management style.

My last employed job had the worst of the worst. Main boss was a shouty entitled son of the owner. Bit thick. Made up for it using voice volume. My line manager was a dried up 57 year old who was desperately unhappy in the job but lacked the confidence to go do something else it was actually quite sad. A very frustrated little chap. He's still there 5 years after I moved on. I did 11 years and he was always taking of leaving since day one!

Yeah have had a real mix when I look back. Probably 50/50 but have learned how to deal and certainly how not to deal with people/staff along the way and would like to think I would be in people's "good" box.

[sparks_190e]

Pothole said:

kiethton said:

Condi said:

kiethton said:

Very much a function of your stage in life and geographic location is it not.

I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.

Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.

The median wage for inner London is only £34k, if as a couple, you're on over £110k a year and still struggle how on earth do 75% of the rest of the population live?

(Source https://www.cityam.com/where-can-you-earn-most-uk-...

Thats my point - I don't understand how, if not for tax credits, top-up's etc.

More frugally!! WTF do you spend it on, we know it's not transport!

Wife and I earn £42kish combined and have between us around £900-£1000 left after all expenses, including mortgage on £200k house in the south... we don’t have any kids, which helps. I don’t understand how people don’t understand that lower earners don’t necessarily live in poverty.

Edited by sparks_190e on Friday 28th June 07:36

[TameRacingDriver]

RizzoTheRat said:

In 30 or so years of working for several different employers I've had one (well technically 2 as I worked for the same bloke at 2 different companies) boss who was a bit of a pain in the arse at times, as in I always felt he had is own best interests at heart rather than his staffs. Other than that I've always had bosses I've admired/liked/respected.

If you're working for aholes maybe it's time to look for another job.

This. My current boss is a good lad, I have a lot of time for him. My boss at my last place, where I only worked for 6 months, I still keep in touch with 5 years later, because he's one of the best lads I know. I have worked for my fair share of bad ones, but to be fair to them I probably wasn't the easiest employee back then either... I've moved on from then.

[kiethton]

sparks_190e said:

Pothole said:

kiethton said:

Condi said:

kiethton said:

Very much a function of your stage in life and geographic location is it not.

I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.

Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.

The median wage for inner London is only £34k, if as a couple, you're on over £110k a year and still struggle how on earth do 75% of the rest of the population live?

(Source https://www.cityam.com/where-can-you-earn-most-uk-...

Thats my point - I don't understand how, if not for tax credits, top-up's etc.

More frugally!! WTF do you spend it on, we know it's not transport!

Wife and I earn £42kish combined and have between us around £900-£1000 left after all expenses, including mortgage on £200k house in the south... we don’t have any kids, which helps. I don’t understand how people don’t understand that lower earners don’t necessarily live in poverty.

Edited by sparks_190e on Friday 28th June 07:36

Think the difference is the size of the mortgage, its a lot harder if you've bought in the past 4 years vs. 8 years ago....

Beyond that its the lifestyle too - commuting (I ride a banger motorbike or cycle), after work drinks ~£40 a week, lunches, £500 of student loan each month, wedding costs, cars, flat improvements etc.....it just disappears....well debt repayment too. What doesn't help is that 30-50% of my salary comes in an annual bonus which makes the month-month a lot tighter....

[sparks_190e]

kiethton said:

sparks_190e said:

Pothole said:

kiethton said:

Condi said:

kiethton said:

Very much a function of your stage in life and geographic location is it not.

I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.

Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.

The median wage for inner London is only £34k, if as a couple, you're on over £110k a year and still struggle how on earth do 75% of the rest of the population live?

(Source https://www.cityam.com/where-can-you-earn-most-uk-...

Thats my point - I don't understand how, if not for tax credits, top-up's etc.

More frugally!! WTF do you spend it on, we know it's not transport!

Wife and I earn £42kish combined and have between us around £900-£1000 left after all expenses, including mortgage on £200k house in the south... we don’t have any kids, which helps. I don’t understand how people don’t understand that lower earners don’t necessarily live in poverty.

Edited by sparks_190e on Friday 28th June 07:36

Think the difference is the size of the mortgage, its a lot harder if you've bought in the past 4 years vs. 8 years ago....

Beyond that its the lifestyle too - commuting (I ride a banger motorbike or cycle), after work drinks ~£40 a week, lunches, £500 of student loan each month, wedding costs, cars, flat improvements etc.....it just disappears....well debt repayment too. What doesn't help is that 30-50% of my salary comes in an annual bonus which makes the month-month a lot tighter....

Of course lifestyle has a part to play, I agree. To be fair we took out the mortgage last year, and it’s £510 a month over the longest term we could have, 37 years. My lunch costs about £1.50 a day, our wedding was about $150 in the states, the party we had for it when we got home was a gift, and I’m pretty much tee total!

[Deep Thought]

fridaypassion said:

Deep Thought said:

I've had many managers i admire / like respect. In fact i've only had a few who were complete dolts. The last guy was last year and he was put out of the company in 3 months. He was a weapons grade dick. But generally, out of maybe 20-30 managers over the years i'd say there were only one or two who were bad at their jobs.

Maybe the problem isnt all your managers....

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 28th June 00:12

I've had a good mix. 20 years ago I worked at an internet startup with some really great people. Learned a lot and am still good mates with 2 of the 4 main directors all these years later. Really inspiring people with very good management style.

My last employed job had the worst of the worst. Main boss was a shouty entitled son of the owner. Bit thick. Made up for it using voice volume. My line manager was a dried up 57 year old who was desperately unhappy in the job but lacked the confidence to go do something else it was actually quite sad. A very frustrated little chap. He's still there 5 years after I moved on. I did 11 years and he was always taking of leaving since day one!

Yeah have had a real mix when I look back. Probably 50/50 but have learned how to deal and certainly how not to deal with people/staff along the way and would like to think I would be in people's "good" box.

I tend to be able to work "with" people ok, like yourself i learn how to do deal with any given individual along the way and thats tended to work out fine. Probably only a handful of exceptional managers among that, but the rest have been fine bar one or two.

The individual i referenced as a complete dolt was a contractor who apparently had been "managed out" of his last permie job (through no fault of his own he told us), but after getting kicked out of where i was has subsequently had continuous minimum term 3 month contracts with no extensions, which i think speaks volumes.

[Sebastian Tombs]

Ambition is an odd thing. It depends on circumstances.

I am very good at what I do (front-end web development), very experienced, and I also worked very hard to become better.
Because of my family circumstances at the time (demanding wife with increasingly debilitating health problems which meant I became the sole bread-winner) I used to work my arse off between the hours of 9 and 5 and then go home immediately afterwards. As I never stayed late it was important to me to be demonstrably harder-working and better at my job, delivering better results than any of my colleagues. This did net me the pay rises I needed but it was always the case that I needed to move jobs to get more money and responsibility as promotion never happened.

I ended up working at a large consultancy where it finally seemed like there was a well-defined promotion path and I damn near broke myself trying to get promoted, and for 3 years it didn't happen. It would always be about who you knew, not how good you were. Not only did I get fked over by my own boss who gave my own job to someone who I hired and didn't actually tell me, I got fked over by other ambitious people who would step on anyone to further their own careers.

After my wife died I completely re-evaluated what I wanted from life. I was doing a job I wasn't sure if I still liked, being pushed into a direction I didn't want to go, in a company that didn't respect or value me but I was supposed to pretend I valued the company. I was earning a lot of money by now, which was the only saving grace, but I asked myself why did I want this? Why did I want a promotion? What would it change, and would I like it? Would it lead anywhere or was it just an aim in itself? At that company even if I did get a promotion it was just another rung on a slippery ladder which still had another 7 rungs above me, none of which I would ever have the remotest chance of getting to. I was burning myself out for nothing. I realised I had mostly been working that hard to escape from my awful home life, and now that was over.

I decided to quit and leave permanent work behind forever, and just build websites until I could retire. Life had other plans and an interesting lead developer job at a digital agency came my way. I took the job, intending to just run a good team and create great work. I don't even work that hard at it now because I am really content with where I am. I just come in, build nice stuff and make people happy, and leave at 6pm. It must be working too, because after a restructuring the buggers promoted me to head the technology function! This will absolutely do me until I stop working altogether. I couldn't be happier.

[Pit Pony]

Deep Thought said:

markcoznottz said:

I'd love to meet someone who has a boss they admire/like/respect, but I never do.

I've had many managers i admire / like respect. In fact i've only had a few who were complete dolts. The last guy was last year and he was put out of the company in 3 months. He was a weapons grade dick. But generally, out of maybe 20-30 managers over the years i'd say there were only one or two who were bad at their jobs.

Maybe the problem isnt all your managers....

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 28th June 00:12

I know I have some personality defects that most managers I've had don't get.
However, there have been 3 things that have made me better. In one job I had a boss who somehow worked out what motivated me and what didn't, and saw his role as being there to make sure his staff achieved thier best. He led by example but he cottoned on that i was very hard on myself, and would praise me for work that i wasn't particularly proud of. This made me want to achieve a level of quality that warranted the praise.
Then I tried managing a production team in a factory, and found it soul destroying. But what that did was to understand the pressures of the role. And finally, going contracting. Knowing that you are expendable and that your next week depends of the hiring managers perception, kind of makes you look at mangers in a different way.

[Deep Thought]

Pit Pony said:

I know I have some personality defects that most managers I've had don't get.
However, there have been 3 things that have made me better. In one job I had a boss who somehow worked out what motivated me and what didn't, and saw his role as being there to make sure his staff achieved thier best. He led by example but he cottoned on that i was very hard on myself, and would praise me for work that i wasn't particularly proud of. This made me want to achieve a level of quality that warranted the praise.
Then I tried managing a production team in a factory, and found it soul destroying. But what that did was to understand the pressures of the role. And finally, going contracting. Knowing that you are expendable and that your next week depends of the hiring managers perception, kind of makes you look at mangers in a different way.

I work in IT and usually on the back end server side, where the people involved tend to be "more difficult" individuals, often set in their ways. Far too hard and unrewarding to manage.

Contracting gets me away from all that, and as you say, your relationship with your manager changes, knowing you're on a weeks notice at any point. Even when you have a poor / difficult manager you have to find ways to work with them. Being stroppy or obstructive or a whinger just gets you shown the door.

[CaymANTH]

I was ambitious. 4 kids, a wife who didn’t earn and a car fetish tends to keep you motivated! Turned 50 this year, youngest child now 16, very unfulfilled at work, so committed career suicide and went part-time and halved my salary.

Still not sure whether I’ve lost my ambition, got too comfortable or just bored with current job and need a change. I’ll let you all know when the money runs out ........