When child abuse isn't child abuse?

[drivin_me_nuts]

ali_kat said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

Zen. said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

Physical violence comes up as a strong memory quite often in the work that I do. What is sometimes not appreciated by some is that even though the adult may have good reason to administer punishment, what the child grown into an adult forgets is the context. Hence the grown up child is left with beliefs and highly charged memories like "I remember my father beating me..." The context gets lost, the memory and all highly emotive charge surrounding it remains unresolved. It can be very difficult to rationalise those thoughts as an adult - the adult asks "why" and does not find the answer the child needs..

My eldest daughter was subjected to some very traumatic and violent abuse, it in no way compares to a short sharp smack on the hand or back of the legs, to suggest it does rather diminishes what abuse really consists of.

I am not diminishing abuse in any way shape or form.

Abuse is not just a set of actions. It is equally as much about how you perceive them to be. People feel "abused" by being smacked just once - it is the context that creates the sense of abuse. Likewise people have been raped and do not consider that abuse - again context, belief and perception play their part.

But like I said, I do not diminish the impact of abuse. far from it in fact.

It doesn't read like that

There is a great deal of difference between
a smack
discipline
and
being beaten

A smack generally conjours up the idea of something done with the flat of the hand; it doesn't inflict much pain, usually it is a stinging sensation; a short sharp shock to the system; causing the area hit to become reddened if the blow is too hard. Rarely will it cause injury (apart from pride) - unless done across the face when it can cause a split lip. Although very few parents would slap their child across the face!

Discipline generally conjours up the thought of more different actions; be it being grounded, the slipper, the cane, sent to bed with no dinner, the removal of priviledges... or a smack.

Being beaten is something that mostly is associated with extreme violence.

All 3 are very different, although the first is used as discipline.

I doubt very much that a person that has been smacked once considers themselves 'abused'; if they do then as JAYB says - they have much bigger issues.

drivin_me_nuts said:

Zen. said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

Likewise people have been raped and do not consider that abuse - again context, belief and perception play their part.

You appear to be meeting very different people to me, all the men and women I've met who have been subjected to rape all acknowlege they have been abused both in a physical and emotional way.

acknowledge the events, don't consider it abuse. For many reasons including the labelling that society places on abuse and victim. To be "abused" normally infers being a "victim". To be a victim removes control.

People that have been raped DO consider themselves abused. If they do not; again, they have much bigger issues left from the experience to deal with.

Of course they are victims - of course their control has been removed - WTF do you think rape is?

Edited by ali_kat on Friday 12th June 21:52

I know exactly what rape is and what it does to the victims and those surrounding it. All too well actually.

Rape is primarily about control. Rape takes away control from the person. But here is the but, to spend the rest of your life FEELING like a victim of abuse leaves you for ever that. A rape statistic, a victim.

Of course rape is abuse, it's a fking miserable bd thing to do so someone. But you don't have to spend you life as a "victim of abuse". There is another way to both see your life and live your life.

Perhaps you and I will have to agree to disagree over this. I truely passionately do not believe in this notion of victim and abuse. There is another way.

[Sheets Tabuer]

fluffnik said:

Jesus TF Christ said:

Ritual circumcision.

Mutilating a child's genitalia to satisfy the superstitions of the parents is definitely abuse.

Same as baptising them (superstition bit obviously)

I still can't bring myself to hit the person I love on this earth more than anyone else.

I know soppy git.

[ali_kat]

drivin_me_nuts said:

I know exactly what rape is and what it does to the victims and those surrounding it. All too well actually.

Rape is primarily about control. Rape takes away control from the person. But here is the but, to spend the rest of your life FEELING like a victim of abuse leaves you for ever that. A rape statistic, a victim.

Of course rape is abuse, it's a fking miserable bd thing to do so someone. But you don't have to spend you life as a "victim of abuse". There is another way to both see your life and live your life.

Perhaps you and I will have to agree to disagree over this. I truely passionately do not believe in this notion of victim and abuse. There is another way.

So do I; although I'm getting the impression that it is not in the same way...

You are a statistic whether or not you continue to feel a victim. The fact is that you ARE still a victim of abuse. Because no matter how good your therapist/counsellor/psychiatrist is; although they can stop you feeling like a victim, they can not stop the fact that you have been a victim, that you have been abused.

[stifler]

The main point about smacking children, which Ali_Kat brushed upon above, is that it is not meant to hurt the child. It is meant to shock them into thinking about what they have done, by stopping their thought processes going down the path that the parent doesn't want it to. (If that makes sense)

If a smack actually hurts a child (beyond stinging for a couple of seconds afterwards) then it is too hard.

Pierced ears on babies is plain wrong.

[ali_kat]

Sheets Tabuer said:

fluffnik said:

Jesus TF Christ said:

Ritual circumcision.

Mutilating a child's genitalia to satisfy the superstitions of the parents is definitely abuse.

Same as baptising them (superstition bit obviously)

I still can't bring myself to hit the person I love on this earth more than anyone else.

I know soppy git.

Baptisim/raising a child in a faith is not abuse - well, unless it is one of those 'radical' ones that doesn't allow proper health care, or raises them to be completely brainwashed

I think you are a bit more special tho Mick

[ali_kat]

stifler said:

The main point about smacking children, which Ali_Kat brushed upon above, is that it is not meant to hurt the child. It is meant to shock them into thinking about what they have done, by stopping their thought processes going down the path that the parent doesn't want it to. (If that makes sense)

If a smack actually hurts a child (beyond stinging for a couple of seconds afterwards) then it is too hard.

Pierced ears on babies is plain wrong.

Thank goodness someone read that properly! Too me ages to word it 'right'

Pierced anything should not be allowed until the age of 16.

[Zen.]

drivin_me_nuts said:

Zen. said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

Likewise people have been raped and do not consider that abuse - again context, belief and perception play their part.

You appear to be meeting very different people to me, all the men and women I've met who have been subjected to rape all acknowlege they have been abused both in a physical and emotional way.

acknowledge the events, don't consider it abuse. For many reasons including the labelling that society places on abuse and victim. To be "abused" normally infers being a "victim". To be a victim, that removes control.

There are many ways to resolve the issues surrounding rape and abuse. Does labelling help? TBO I really don't think so. Deal with the issues yes, labelling... No

I was very careful not to use the word victim, as one event or situation does not define a person. I still can't equate a smack with abuse.

All the other forms of abuse raised here are on going over feeding a child, smoking around a child etc, many parents will use a smack when a child is of any age not to understand reason; the don't touch it's hot is probably the best example, is it less abusive to smack a childs hand or allow it to touch a hot oven and burn themselves?

Edited by Zen. on Friday 12th June 22:52

[fluffnik]

Sheets Tabuer said:

fluffnik said:

Jesus TF Christ said:

Ritual circumcision.

Mutilating a child's genitalia to satisfy the superstitions of the parents is definitely abuse.

Same as baptising them (superstition bit obviously)

There's no physical injury involved in baptism.

However, I'm inclined to consider religious indoctrination child abuse too...

[andthensome]

Jesus TF Christ said:

Cara Van Man said:

andthensome said:

I saw a girl outside the pub last night who said she was 4 months pregnant

With a fag on

i actually fear for the child

and with good reason. If she has that level of respect for the child now, what will she have in 3 years?

I was in the pub a couple of weeks ago chatting to a girl I vaguely know. I offered her a drink and she said she couldn't as she was pregnant. She then asked me for a light!
Stupid bint. I packed her off home and told her to sort her life and priorities out.

It was bad times, tbf she had only been 18 a couple of weeks so do i really need to explain?

[Jesus TF Christ]

andthensome said:

Jesus TF Christ said:

Cara Van Man said:

andthensome said:

I saw a girl outside the pub last night who said she was 4 months pregnant

With a fag on

i actually fear for the child

and with good reason. If she has that level of respect for the child now, what will she have in 3 years?

I was in the pub a couple of weeks ago chatting to a girl I vaguely know. I offered her a drink and she said she couldn't as she was pregnant. She then asked me for a light!
Stupid bint. I packed her off home and told her to sort her life and priorities out.

It was bad times, tbf she had only been 18 a couple of weeks so do i really need to explain?

You barstard.