Engagement / Relationship Woes
Discussion
First up, I know these threads go on for pages as I've been a regular reader but never really contributed. However, sat here just now I can't reconcile my feelings with anybody else but these forums, so I thought I'd write everything down, with any replies gratefully received.
So outline;
I'm 28, she's 26. Been together 6 years, engaged for 3. Wedding is < 6months away.
2 daughters, 4 & 1.
Having a bit of a crisis.
I recently started a new job and this has meant a lot of training (naturally) a recent trip to a supplier which I thoroughly enjoyed has basically catalyzed an argument which broke out on my return to the country.
Absolutely exhausted from the journey and lack of sleep I then needed to travel back from Heathrow Airport late yesterday afternoon - in rush hour. FML. The one thing that could cheer me up would be a first phonecall on UK soil to my Fiancee and kids. Or not, as only a minute in to the conversation she is arguing with me. Do I think it's acceptable that she's at home all day looking after OUR children? I carefully explain that I was simply doing my job and entertaining customers / training. I'm getting no-where so I hang up, she can't be reasoned with.
Finally get home just after 6:30pm, not bad time after all. Nobody is home yet, so quick shower then she should return home from her part-time job shortly thereafter. All goes well, I greet the children but she is being really frosty. No kiss, no hug. Then it starts. "Aren't you going to apologise?" - what for? I'm doing a job, one which will give us a better future! "I can't see how going out and getting w*nkered is working" "It's not f*cking fair on us or the kids" - at this point she's already starting to shout, so I calmly ask her just to watch her language in front of the kids. It escalates, she still thinks I need to apologise for having left her at home - despite the trip having been organised weeks in advance and her being completely aware of it. Nope, it was irresponsible, why is she expected to stay at home all day* and she has to look after the kids on top of all that. My blood pressure is starting to climb somewhat by this stage, as this is the lifestyle she decided upon when WE made the decision to have children.
(*she does 4 hours a day as a carer, split over morning/noon/evening)
I go downstairs for a glass of water.
She follows, still spitting feathers, I still don't really know what to apologise for. We still have yet to properly say "hello" to one another. I try to leave the kitchen, she won't step aside, now shouting in my face. I won't raise my voice to her in front of the kids. I explain that I want to come past because I'm tired and want to sit down. She starts shouting louder. I try to step past, she barges me back into the room. "I'm not letting you past until you explain why you think it's acceptable" - WTF? I'm a grown adult, standing almost a foot taller than you and you have no power to threaten / contain me. Not least of all - you're supposed to be my Fiancee - I'm not your detainee! I try to push past, I'm f*cking exhausted. She pushes back harder, now holding the door frame effectively making herself a human barrier. Now I'm getting angry. Regrettably, I shout back at her not swearing, but simply asking her to get out of the way because I'm tired, and I want to sit down! I grab her wrist, force my way past.
The next part is not pretty. She's swung at me before, a couple of times, only once doing some proper damage (she threw something at my head - normally she's a sh*t shot, but this split my head). I digress. She starts throwing punches and kicks. One lands on my collar bone / chest. I restrain her by the wrists and shout "ENOUGH". She's clearly shaken, as she can see my anger, but quite why she should be scared I don't know, I'll never hit a woman. She shouts back, apparently I'm hurting her wrists (bearing in mind that she's still wriggling about, I could have squeezed a lot tighter if I'd been so inclined!). I'm shouting. She's shouting. Kids are now crying, not aware what's going on downstairs.
I remove and throw my engagement ring. Enough is enough. I've not seen my family for 72 hours and within 15 minutes it has escalated to this.
I'm absolutely furious, but conscious the children should not see me shouting like an ape at their mother. I take myself off for a rest on the sofa. She does the predictable, not saying a word, and gathers some things for her and the kids, preparing to leave in the car. We don't actually exchange many more words to one another after this, apart from me overhearing my eldest daughter say "I want daddy" and her turn around quite calmly and tell our daughter that "well daddy doesn't want us". This p*sses me off somewhat. I have to explain to my children that this is not the case and say goodbye to them properly once they're strapped in the car. My no-longer fiancee says that I will "Never see them again" - trying to gauge a reaction from me, but I'm not about to stoop to that level of hate. I take myself off to bed, knowing full-well she has few places to turn and will likely return later in the evening.
I hear them return that evening, but I don't see any of them. I'm already half-asleep in our bed, I'm not moving for nothing - I'm still exhausted from the trip.
I assume she slept on the sofa - result! It's normally us blokes which have to sacrifice the comfort of our bed following an argument. Perhaps she's aware that she was in the wrong? I doubt it though.
Come down for work this morning and we still haven't exchanged words. She's also removed her engagement ring and placed it quite obviously on the sideboard.
I don't really know what to do. We don't have a house of our own, we rent. I've always paid the bills and rent and subbed her for anything she needs, due to me working full-time and her only part time, I earn about 4:1 what she does. I can't bring myself to look at her. I made myself a promise that I wouldn't let her hit me again after the last time, so taking her back is to make her promise - again - that it will never happen. I can't bear to lose the kids. I've done everything a father should, remained in employment all my life to pay for their upbringing and the home we live in. I've been there for as long as possible, taking jobs where I can work from home (like today) and taking / collecting the eldest from Nursery whenever I can spare the time. I don't deserve to lose them, but I know how these things play out, and so does she. I can tell she will manipulate the kids against me even after yesterdays' little outburst, and that makes my p*ss boil. But what can I do? I certainly can't make amends of our relationship and actually marry this woman. I'm already thinking about how much of all of the deposits we will get back if I cancel now, less than 6 months before the big day. But to bury my head in the sand and go through with it would cost me more dearly, I suspect.
I'm still exhausted despite sleep. She hasn't re-appeared yet and the eldest will finish nursery in 15 minutes. Where do I take it from here? Do I kick her out? Do I leave myself? I've nowhere to go. If I make her leave she will take the children.
Thanks for reading, I'll try to update this and how it plays out.
So outline;
I'm 28, she's 26. Been together 6 years, engaged for 3. Wedding is < 6months away.
2 daughters, 4 & 1.
Having a bit of a crisis.
I recently started a new job and this has meant a lot of training (naturally) a recent trip to a supplier which I thoroughly enjoyed has basically catalyzed an argument which broke out on my return to the country.
Absolutely exhausted from the journey and lack of sleep I then needed to travel back from Heathrow Airport late yesterday afternoon - in rush hour. FML. The one thing that could cheer me up would be a first phonecall on UK soil to my Fiancee and kids. Or not, as only a minute in to the conversation she is arguing with me. Do I think it's acceptable that she's at home all day looking after OUR children? I carefully explain that I was simply doing my job and entertaining customers / training. I'm getting no-where so I hang up, she can't be reasoned with.
Finally get home just after 6:30pm, not bad time after all. Nobody is home yet, so quick shower then she should return home from her part-time job shortly thereafter. All goes well, I greet the children but she is being really frosty. No kiss, no hug. Then it starts. "Aren't you going to apologise?" - what for? I'm doing a job, one which will give us a better future! "I can't see how going out and getting w*nkered is working" "It's not f*cking fair on us or the kids" - at this point she's already starting to shout, so I calmly ask her just to watch her language in front of the kids. It escalates, she still thinks I need to apologise for having left her at home - despite the trip having been organised weeks in advance and her being completely aware of it. Nope, it was irresponsible, why is she expected to stay at home all day* and she has to look after the kids on top of all that. My blood pressure is starting to climb somewhat by this stage, as this is the lifestyle she decided upon when WE made the decision to have children.
(*she does 4 hours a day as a carer, split over morning/noon/evening)
I go downstairs for a glass of water.
She follows, still spitting feathers, I still don't really know what to apologise for. We still have yet to properly say "hello" to one another. I try to leave the kitchen, she won't step aside, now shouting in my face. I won't raise my voice to her in front of the kids. I explain that I want to come past because I'm tired and want to sit down. She starts shouting louder. I try to step past, she barges me back into the room. "I'm not letting you past until you explain why you think it's acceptable" - WTF? I'm a grown adult, standing almost a foot taller than you and you have no power to threaten / contain me. Not least of all - you're supposed to be my Fiancee - I'm not your detainee! I try to push past, I'm f*cking exhausted. She pushes back harder, now holding the door frame effectively making herself a human barrier. Now I'm getting angry. Regrettably, I shout back at her not swearing, but simply asking her to get out of the way because I'm tired, and I want to sit down! I grab her wrist, force my way past.
The next part is not pretty. She's swung at me before, a couple of times, only once doing some proper damage (she threw something at my head - normally she's a sh*t shot, but this split my head). I digress. She starts throwing punches and kicks. One lands on my collar bone / chest. I restrain her by the wrists and shout "ENOUGH". She's clearly shaken, as she can see my anger, but quite why she should be scared I don't know, I'll never hit a woman. She shouts back, apparently I'm hurting her wrists (bearing in mind that she's still wriggling about, I could have squeezed a lot tighter if I'd been so inclined!). I'm shouting. She's shouting. Kids are now crying, not aware what's going on downstairs.
I remove and throw my engagement ring. Enough is enough. I've not seen my family for 72 hours and within 15 minutes it has escalated to this.
I'm absolutely furious, but conscious the children should not see me shouting like an ape at their mother. I take myself off for a rest on the sofa. She does the predictable, not saying a word, and gathers some things for her and the kids, preparing to leave in the car. We don't actually exchange many more words to one another after this, apart from me overhearing my eldest daughter say "I want daddy" and her turn around quite calmly and tell our daughter that "well daddy doesn't want us". This p*sses me off somewhat. I have to explain to my children that this is not the case and say goodbye to them properly once they're strapped in the car. My no-longer fiancee says that I will "Never see them again" - trying to gauge a reaction from me, but I'm not about to stoop to that level of hate. I take myself off to bed, knowing full-well she has few places to turn and will likely return later in the evening.
I hear them return that evening, but I don't see any of them. I'm already half-asleep in our bed, I'm not moving for nothing - I'm still exhausted from the trip.
I assume she slept on the sofa - result! It's normally us blokes which have to sacrifice the comfort of our bed following an argument. Perhaps she's aware that she was in the wrong? I doubt it though.
Come down for work this morning and we still haven't exchanged words. She's also removed her engagement ring and placed it quite obviously on the sideboard.
I don't really know what to do. We don't have a house of our own, we rent. I've always paid the bills and rent and subbed her for anything she needs, due to me working full-time and her only part time, I earn about 4:1 what she does. I can't bring myself to look at her. I made myself a promise that I wouldn't let her hit me again after the last time, so taking her back is to make her promise - again - that it will never happen. I can't bear to lose the kids. I've done everything a father should, remained in employment all my life to pay for their upbringing and the home we live in. I've been there for as long as possible, taking jobs where I can work from home (like today) and taking / collecting the eldest from Nursery whenever I can spare the time. I don't deserve to lose them, but I know how these things play out, and so does she. I can tell she will manipulate the kids against me even after yesterdays' little outburst, and that makes my p*ss boil. But what can I do? I certainly can't make amends of our relationship and actually marry this woman. I'm already thinking about how much of all of the deposits we will get back if I cancel now, less than 6 months before the big day. But to bury my head in the sand and go through with it would cost me more dearly, I suspect.
I'm still exhausted despite sleep. She hasn't re-appeared yet and the eldest will finish nursery in 15 minutes. Where do I take it from here? Do I kick her out? Do I leave myself? I've nowhere to go. If I make her leave she will take the children.
Thanks for reading, I'll try to update this and how it plays out.
Edited by C.A.R. on Wednesday 25th January 11:47
To answer some of the questions brought forward so far-
I contacted her frequently during my trip. About half a dozen phone calls and many, many text messages exchanged.
To explain the trip itself, it's a training visit to a supplier of a product which our company regularly provide to key / new customers. It involved training for me (because I'm new) and I have not yet got any of my own customer base, but I was there with existing customers entertaining them. I hope that makes sense!
I appreciate massively what she does to look after the children during the week. At weekends I'm absolutely focused on the children - Before travelling at the weekend I spent the whole day with my family. I haven't seen my friends in a long time, I really don't have a social life to speak of, and I'm very much involved in bringing up the children. They are both incredibly well-behaved also, a testament to our hard work. We are fortunate that the youngest also sleeps right through the night and rarely wakes before 7.
I was anticipating a warm embrace on my return to the country, I was certainly offering one!
Quite what I could have done differently I don't know. This new job will involve some travelling, but it's compounded due to my recent starting and therefore requiring training on products which might take me further afield. Once I'm trained-up and working on my own patch then the territory and my location should not take me any more than a maximum 2 hours from home - therefore not necessitating an overnight stay more frequently than once or twice a month. This is not any different from the job I have been doing for the last 2 years.
I contacted her frequently during my trip. About half a dozen phone calls and many, many text messages exchanged.
To explain the trip itself, it's a training visit to a supplier of a product which our company regularly provide to key / new customers. It involved training for me (because I'm new) and I have not yet got any of my own customer base, but I was there with existing customers entertaining them. I hope that makes sense!
I appreciate massively what she does to look after the children during the week. At weekends I'm absolutely focused on the children - Before travelling at the weekend I spent the whole day with my family. I haven't seen my friends in a long time, I really don't have a social life to speak of, and I'm very much involved in bringing up the children. They are both incredibly well-behaved also, a testament to our hard work. We are fortunate that the youngest also sleeps right through the night and rarely wakes before 7.
I was anticipating a warm embrace on my return to the country, I was certainly offering one!
Quite what I could have done differently I don't know. This new job will involve some travelling, but it's compounded due to my recent starting and therefore requiring training on products which might take me further afield. Once I'm trained-up and working on my own patch then the territory and my location should not take me any more than a maximum 2 hours from home - therefore not necessitating an overnight stay more frequently than once or twice a month. This is not any different from the job I have been doing for the last 2 years.
Andehh said:
Read that back to yourself, as you started the physical contact(?), then escalated the physical contact by grabbing her wrist. Thats a fair escalation to matters, THEN she starts to retaliate in turn? It's not like she can grab your wrists to restrain you...so she lashes out in the only way she can.
Be careful getting fixated on the ''I promised I wouldn't let her hit me again'' and using that as your focus to end everything or follow through with the ''I am victim of continued domestic abuse''. If all incidents of domestic abuse you have fallen victim to in the past have started off in a similar manner to what you said above, then it is fairly 50:50 in my head.
Be really really careful playing the victim card in this event, as this isn't that one sided IMO. Giving her the benefit of the doubt to counter act you telling the story I can see where she is coming from if you are very work focused vs seeing her having an easier life due to part time job (which you focused on in you story) and ''only'' looking after the kids.
Apologies if it was unclear, I just kind of spewed the words onto the screen as quickly as I could. I definitely did not start the physical contact, with her blocking my exit from the kitchen into what is quite a narrow hallway, if you can imagine. Her pushing me back into the kitchen was the start of the contact, with her 'pushes' with the flat palm of her hand almost striking out like hits. I just wanted to get by and I'm not proud of having to restrain her by the wrists at all, I wish I hadn't felt the need - but like I say, this is not the first time it has happened. Previously she has inflicted bruises and as mentioned in my first post the worst of it all was being struck by an object she threw at my head, which split my head open just next to my eye/below the temple area.Be careful getting fixated on the ''I promised I wouldn't let her hit me again'' and using that as your focus to end everything or follow through with the ''I am victim of continued domestic abuse''. If all incidents of domestic abuse you have fallen victim to in the past have started off in a similar manner to what you said above, then it is fairly 50:50 in my head.
Be really really careful playing the victim card in this event, as this isn't that one sided IMO. Giving her the benefit of the doubt to counter act you telling the story I can see where she is coming from if you are very work focused vs seeing her having an easier life due to part time job (which you focused on in you story) and ''only'' looking after the kids.
Edited by Andehh on Wednesday 25th January 12:31
It's not easy even admitting that this has happened before, I almost feel a sense of shame that I let her hit me. It's usually after the event (like this morning) that I'm left thinking, wait a minute - I did not sign up for this!
Appreciate all the replies so far, thanks.
As for the violence, I guess this is what concerns me most. Not least the <6 months to our wedding day. Saying 'if it happens again then...' will be all-too late once we've tied the knot. I said last time, when I received a cut to the head, that this was it - Strike 3 if you will - and if it were ever to happen again then I'd be out. So offering a second chance on this occasion already undermines that.
I completely appreciate that it is certainly 'different' comparing violence from male to female, but it is no less deplorable. I am a very calm arguer and I use words to my advantage, I think this just frustrates her as she struggles to make a point, then resorts to physical contact. I think also previous experience plays a part - I know a lot of posts are now trying to determine 'who started it' by claiming that me grabbing at her wrist was a violent act / retaliation to being pushed. I did not lash out, I very calmly tried to prevent her 'human barrier' technique in the doorway. It was only after receiving a couple of thumps and kicks that I grabbed her by both wrists and restrained her, before moving away. If only there were video footage eh! I couldn't physically have been holding her wrist when she threw a punch at me now, could I? Not possible. I grabbed, moved her arm, attempted to get by and was punched and kicked, at which point yes- I retaliated by restraining. I re-iterate that I'm still not proud of how it went and could have handled it better, but no doubt without taking more hits.
We discussed at-length the travelling and I didn't think she had a problem with it - at least if she did have she didn't voice it. She is well-aware I'd rather be at home than out with work - even if the trip was to the Bahamas!
As for drinking - I hardly ever get the opportunity to drink, as a devoted father of young children you simply don't get the opportunity. So yes, I did get drunk one night of this trip, not least because I'm a bit of a lightweight!
Someone asked earlier if we get the chance to go out much 'as a couple'. The answer is no, hardly ever. "Us time" is limited to evenings and nap-times. None of our relatives are fit to look after our children - either through disability or lack of willing. My sister is an angel, looking after our children once a month or so. Other than that, we hardly get a break from family life, which is a shame, but something which we went into open-eyed when choosing to have children.
We have agreed to discuss things once the children get to bed this evening.
As for the violence, I guess this is what concerns me most. Not least the <6 months to our wedding day. Saying 'if it happens again then...' will be all-too late once we've tied the knot. I said last time, when I received a cut to the head, that this was it - Strike 3 if you will - and if it were ever to happen again then I'd be out. So offering a second chance on this occasion already undermines that.
I completely appreciate that it is certainly 'different' comparing violence from male to female, but it is no less deplorable. I am a very calm arguer and I use words to my advantage, I think this just frustrates her as she struggles to make a point, then resorts to physical contact. I think also previous experience plays a part - I know a lot of posts are now trying to determine 'who started it' by claiming that me grabbing at her wrist was a violent act / retaliation to being pushed. I did not lash out, I very calmly tried to prevent her 'human barrier' technique in the doorway. It was only after receiving a couple of thumps and kicks that I grabbed her by both wrists and restrained her, before moving away. If only there were video footage eh! I couldn't physically have been holding her wrist when she threw a punch at me now, could I? Not possible. I grabbed, moved her arm, attempted to get by and was punched and kicked, at which point yes- I retaliated by restraining. I re-iterate that I'm still not proud of how it went and could have handled it better, but no doubt without taking more hits.
We discussed at-length the travelling and I didn't think she had a problem with it - at least if she did have she didn't voice it. She is well-aware I'd rather be at home than out with work - even if the trip was to the Bahamas!
As for drinking - I hardly ever get the opportunity to drink, as a devoted father of young children you simply don't get the opportunity. So yes, I did get drunk one night of this trip, not least because I'm a bit of a lightweight!
Someone asked earlier if we get the chance to go out much 'as a couple'. The answer is no, hardly ever. "Us time" is limited to evenings and nap-times. None of our relatives are fit to look after our children - either through disability or lack of willing. My sister is an angel, looking after our children once a month or so. Other than that, we hardly get a break from family life, which is a shame, but something which we went into open-eyed when choosing to have children.
We have agreed to discuss things once the children get to bed this evening.
Right, said I'd keep this up to date and failed spectacularly to do so!
Been busy with work, apologies. I have read all 12 pages though, thanks for all who contributed.
So we had a proper chat together about the events earlier in the week. She agreed that what she did and said was unacceptable and deeply regretted it. More concerning was that she played down the physical bit, I had to bring it up. I think because she considers me to be bigger and tougher than her that she cannot hurt me, so we discussed that whether it hurt or didn't was irrelevant - it was the act of doing it in the first place which was wrong. One day she could clump me with something harder than her little fist!
The whole thing seemed to embarrass her to even talk about, she was definitely uncomfortable. Her main gripe was that I didn't communicate with her enough whilst away, because I would normally Skype home to say goodnight etc and talk to the children. I explained that this trip was more than just a little jolly and I had very few opportunities to even get on the phone, not least the fact that I was with a new company where I had just started and I didn't want to be seen as "distracted" if that make sense? Well it didn't make much sense to her when discussing it either.
Unreasonable? I think so, but we had a busy weekend schedule and plenty of time to make friends again. I'm wondering what else I could have done differently to have avoided the situation. Next time it gets confrontational I think I'll just leave the house instead - it's safer. I joke but I hope I don't live to regret not being firmer about this. The best thing is that she realizes she was the one in the wrong - when I first wrote this thread she was making me feel as if it was me in the wrong. A small difference maybe, but enough to change things.
Thanks once again for the opportunity to vent and gather some perspective.
Been busy with work, apologies. I have read all 12 pages though, thanks for all who contributed.
So we had a proper chat together about the events earlier in the week. She agreed that what she did and said was unacceptable and deeply regretted it. More concerning was that she played down the physical bit, I had to bring it up. I think because she considers me to be bigger and tougher than her that she cannot hurt me, so we discussed that whether it hurt or didn't was irrelevant - it was the act of doing it in the first place which was wrong. One day she could clump me with something harder than her little fist!
The whole thing seemed to embarrass her to even talk about, she was definitely uncomfortable. Her main gripe was that I didn't communicate with her enough whilst away, because I would normally Skype home to say goodnight etc and talk to the children. I explained that this trip was more than just a little jolly and I had very few opportunities to even get on the phone, not least the fact that I was with a new company where I had just started and I didn't want to be seen as "distracted" if that make sense? Well it didn't make much sense to her when discussing it either.
Unreasonable? I think so, but we had a busy weekend schedule and plenty of time to make friends again. I'm wondering what else I could have done differently to have avoided the situation. Next time it gets confrontational I think I'll just leave the house instead - it's safer. I joke but I hope I don't live to regret not being firmer about this. The best thing is that she realizes she was the one in the wrong - when I first wrote this thread she was making me feel as if it was me in the wrong. A small difference maybe, but enough to change things.
Thanks once again for the opportunity to vent and gather some perspective.
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