PH Transformation Thread 2012 - Chat

[Ordinary_Chap]

Frankeh said:

didelydoo said:

Frankeh said:

4,2,2... FAIL.

Oddly enough though after those 3 heavy fail sets of 42.5KG I can still rep 40KG respectively afterwards. Adding a few more 40KG sets on. Can't hurt things!

Try 5,5,6 with 40kg. Then 5,6,6 with 40, then 6,6,6. Then you'll do 5,5,5 with 42.5 no problem.

Thanks, I'll probably give that a go.

Another person today asked me 'when that happened' and then made a kind of flexing pose.. Feels good, but actually demotivates me somewhat amazingly.

If you're anything like me, it makes me feel self conscious and more than a little uncomfortable, especially when someone randomly grabs your arm (or my leg the other day which was truly bizarre).

[GranderTransit]

didelydoo said:

Try 5,5,6 with 40kg. Then 5,6,6 with 40, then 6,6,6. Then you'll do 5,5,5 with 42.5 no problem.

A couple of alternatives to this, if you find a particularly difficult plateau could be to add different weights to either side of the bar. So for a total of 40kg it might look like (7.5kg)(20kg bar)(12.5kg). Try to stick to being in the middle of the bar. The body will learn to compensate and will start to find the extra weight possible.

Another alternative is to bring the weight on the bar down and change the tempo you lift at. Try 4 second for both concentric and eccentric phases, with little to no pause at top or bottom. When you return to "normal" it should help break the plateau.

What is it that is causing you to fail? Not being able to lock out, not being able to get away from the rack position smoothly? Depending on where in the movement you fail at you may want to isolate the weak area and change the movement so that you can concentrate on and strengthen this weakness.

[didelydoo]

GranderTransit said:

A couple of alternatives to this, if you find a particularly difficult plateau could be to add different weights to either side of the bar. So for a total of 40kg it might look like (7.5kg)(20kg bar)(12.5kg). Try to stick to being in the middle of the bar. The body will learn to compensate and will start to find the extra weight possible.

I'd have thought a 12.5% disparity is quite big- could end in disaster?

[Hoofy]

I would have thought using dumbbells would be an idea because then the weaker arm couldn't "cheat".

[BenM77]

I wouldn't suggest loading the bar unequally.

If you want to improve your press then I would try high weight low rep with plenty of sets.

Try 10x2 at 45kg

When I wanted to get my bench up I found multiple sets of two or three reps worked very well.

[Frankeh]

Locking out is never the problem. It's getting it away from my shoulders that's the problem.
I might get it to about nose height and then fail.

Also I'm not sure unevenly loading is a good idea as I'd have thought that it'll just create muscle imbalance. I don't want one huge and one puny shoulder, lol.

[Ordinary_Chap]

When I can't do it, I will either increase reps at a slightly lower weight or do a rep or two at a higher weight if I can't do a set as opposed to one.

[Halb]

Frankeh said:

Locking out is never the problem. It's getting it away from my shoulders that's the problem.
I might get it to about nose height and then fail.

Also I'm not sure unevenly loading is a good idea as I'd have thought that it'll just create muscle imbalance. I don't want one huge and one puny shoulder, lol.

Mark Rippetoe advocates heavy Press starts for that issue.
Best to wear a belt for these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f60spzDNVA

[Frankeh]

Makes sense I guess! I've had success with microloading before so that's going to be my first port of call. If that fails then I'll try the higher reps/lower weight and the heavy starts.

Anyone know how the muscles used changes during the over head press? For example which muscles are failing as I can't get it passed my nose.

[Hoofy]

Woulda thought shoulder muscles first. Triceps come into it later.

Curiously, I've found that if I have dumbbells at around 45 degrees to my body, I don't get a tearing sensation in my right shoulder... (obviously, not something you can do with a barbell but it might help you understand what's going on in your shoulder).

[GranderTransit]

didelydoo said:

I'd have thought a 12.5% disparity is quite big- could end in disaster?

Yeah 12.5% may be a little too much. Works with the weights you can squat better to reduce this %age, or use micro weights to achieve the smaller %age at a lower weight. Theory still holds.

If you have tried other methods and still cannot break a plateau try it.

[Hoofy]

Oh, suddenly I'm reminded of a tip I think LostBMW gave me. Try using a bit of momentum from the body so you get used to the weight. Obviously, be careful you don't smash your face with the bar.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Oh, suddenly I'm reminded of a tip I think LostBMW gave me. Try using a bit of momentum from the body so you get used to the weight. Obviously, be careful you don't smash your face with the bar.

Momentum is good if you are comfortable you can support the bar, otherwise you've got an uncontrollable weight coming back at you.

I personally like LostBMW a lot but I fear doing this can be dangerous in terms of injuries since you really aren't in full control of the weight.

[didelydoo]

Ordinary_Chap said:

Hoofy said:

Oh, suddenly I'm reminded of a tip I think LostBMW gave me. Try using a bit of momentum from the body so you get used to the weight. Obviously, be careful you don't smash your face with the bar.

Momentum is good if you are comfortable you can support the bar, otherwise you've got an uncontrollable weight coming back at you.

I personally like LostBMW a lot but I fear doing this can be dangerous in terms of injuries since you really aren't in full control of the weight.

Is this not jut a push press? Should be able to push ~20% more than you can strict.

[Ordinary_Chap]

didelydoo said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Hoofy said:

Oh, suddenly I'm reminded of a tip I think LostBMW gave me. Try using a bit of momentum from the body so you get used to the weight. Obviously, be careful you don't smash your face with the bar.

Momentum is good if you are comfortable you can support the bar, otherwise you've got an uncontrollable weight coming back at you.

I personally like LostBMW a lot but I fear doing this can be dangerous in terms of injuries since you really aren't in full control of the weight.

Is this not jut a push press? Should be able to push ~20% more than you can strict.

I think if someone has been training for a while its not a problem but for those like Frankeh new to training all of the supporting muscles may not be there yet and I've seen folk injure themselves doing this so my preference is to air on the side of caution.

I don't know, maybe I'm being too cautious but my personal experience is seeing folk losing control of the weight and getting hurt far too often.

[didelydoo]

Ordinary_Chap said:

I think if someone has been training for a while its not a problem but for those like Frankeh new to training all of the supporting muscles may not be there yet and I've seen folk injure themselves doing this so my preference is to air on the side of caution.

I don't know, maybe I'm being too cautious but my personal experience is seeing folk losing control of the weight and getting hurt far too often.

What's the worst that could happen?............

[Halb]

Not strictly a push press this.
http://startingstrength.com/articles/olympic_press...
But there might be tiny leg kick there.

[Frankeh]

Just sounds like a push press to me. Sometimes I add in a push press rep if I know I can't do it strict. Better than nothing, eh?
And hoofy, you can do a 45 degree angle with the barbell, but you have to do really close grip. Pretty much hands in front of shoulders.

I think it's called a military press.

[theshrew]

Frankeh said:

Locking out is never the problem. It's getting it away from my shoulders that's the problem.
I might get it to about nose height and then fail.

Also I'm not sure unevenly loading is a good idea as I'd have thought that it'll just create muscle imbalance. I don't want one huge and one puny shoulder, lol.

I'm the same with all my lifts. Could lift loads more if it wasn't for the first quarter of the lifts

[Hoofy]

It's when the muscle that is required to do the work is stretched to its maximum that we have the "problem".