PH Transformation Thread 2012 - Chat

[Ordinary_Chap]

Lost_BMW said:

Sounds good - definitely a sizeable gain, if you pardon the pun!

Is there a typical set/ rep volume, say for shoulders that he recommends or do you vary it from session to session?


I've been doing a lot of high and very high rep sets for lactic tolerance building and cardio benefits but often v. light (logged on the 'What Training?' thread) so wonder how light you go/ what % of 1 rm you'd use for how many/ which sets (in a session/order)?

I tend to aim for 15 reps during the first 3 sets and then do a final set immediately after the 3rd set (drop set) to absolute failure using a much lighter weight, I aim to just keep moving even if form isn't great until I can no longer use the muscle. Sometimes I get as high as 20 reps on the fourth set.

I do 2-3 exercises per muscle group and very, very intensely. Most of my training sessions are only 35-40 minutes.

I've also found upping my protein count definitely over time has an effect on my muscle mass. I've read quite a bit of scientific research that shows with good quality training the amount of protein you take in each week has a direct affect on the amount of muscle you carry. So my aim has been to maximize protein count with this type of training. I've been also eating/drinking really badly recently but strangely my body has been quite resistance to gaining fat.

Lee

[Ordinary_Chap]

Lost_BMW said:

That sounds quite like one of the approaches the legendary Tom Platz used to use - I had the lucky privilege to train with him once - maybe a pyramid up and then drop sets to absolute failure or high rep sets even after a warm up, e.g. high rep squats with drop sets right down the bar back to 135lb.

I copied it for a while and might try again sometime, for example warm up sets to 2 or 3 of say bench press at anything from 5 to 15 reps then sown the ladder stripping plates step by step until failure/death/no more weight to strip!

Especially on a plate machine with pins like pulldowns or a smith machine or leg press etc. where it was quick and easy to strip weight down or using one or more spotters. Always felt like you'd had a workout!

Yeah that sounds similar to what I've been doing mate.

I know you're good for it and understand it but high volume, short rest results in very intense sessions. I enjoy doing it almost as a way of punishment. I often regret things I've done in the military and other times so I sometimes find peace in punishing my body.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Lost_BMW said:

Out of nostalgic curiosity this encouraged me to look up a couple of old video clips of Platz doing this type of workout

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBmeCWNbJWc&fea...

curls with just an empty bar!


and here to something like failure!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUmhLsdYLYo&fea...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KxN21u5Ap8&fea...

I saw him do this sort of thing 1st hand and it's still similar to some of my delt workouts - not so much the style he uses more the constant reps to failure then swap from sides to front to rear etc. just to keep going.

Edited by Lost_BMW on Thursday 14th June 00:10

Thanks dude thats awesome and looks like a variation of what I've been doing.

Failure is one of those things that very few people get too. Most get tired and equate that too failure when failure is actually like 10 reps away. I've got to say training like this means you have to be ready and attack each session with a lot of aggression.

If I'm not feeling ready I will wait and go the next day rather than train at 75%.

As for Hoofy, rock climbing was one of the most physical things I've ever done. It was fun but very tough!

[Ordinary_Chap]

Yo_Sushi said:

So it's updates you want huh? Well beyond the physical progress you have seen in my photos I am also finding myself mentally stronger (although as I type this the world is falling out of my bottom)
When I run I can now go continually for 20 minutes, and probably more if I wanted to. I just have to tell myself to keep going and then my body realises that it isn't as tired as it expected, and I find that extra little bit and keep going.
I've signed up for my first 5k in October in Richmond park, and am contemplating doing a movember mud run in November (obviously).
Now excuse me while I go st a lung out.

Sounds good well except the bottom bit! I think mental strength comes from hard training. I'm a big believer that guys should do physical things for their mental health and for their bodies health. I also believe keeping our bodies in good shape is good for our relationships and so we can respond to anything where we may need the strength.

You've made great changes buddy, I'd love to see where you are in another 3 months if you keep pushing yourself!

Lee

[Ordinary_Chap]

maximus123 said:

Hi Guys,

Just a little update.

Things a going really well I'm down to 16 and half stone, which is over a stones weight loss. Training is going well, although I'm mainly concentraiting on fat loss at the moment.

It's a great feeling having my clothes feel loser and my jaw line returning. I still have a long way to go but it's start.

Maximus

Thats great! A stone is a good achievement to start with!

[Ordinary_Chap]

Sushi said:

god help me, I've signed up for spinning class tonight. On the bright side the gym was going a lose 6lbs in 6 weeks challenge, I've got a week and a bit left and I've lost 15.84lbs. They better give me a fecking medal or something.

Mate just think of the beautiful ladies! Chase them down on your bike lol!

Anyway you're doing superbly well and from the pictures you've made one of the most significant changes so far!

Oh and 6lb in 6 weeks is a rubbish goal for anyone to set! Now 16lbs in 6 weeks is more like it!

Lee

[Ordinary_Chap]

topgunkos said:

Ok, I've posted pictures in the other thread.

Stats as of today:

Squat: 42,5kg
Bench: 27,5kg
OHP: 22,5kg
Barbell row: 30kg
Deadlift:50kg

Goals
Squat: 120kg
Bench: 65kg
OHP: 60kg
Barbell row: 67,5kg
Deadlift:130kg

I am doing the Stronglifts 5x5 and the Leangains IF for dieting, on the days I'm not lifting I'm running about 5km. My aim is to increase strength, put on some bulk and hopefully in the process lose the gut.

Do you think this is a good plan? The only thing I'm struggling is to get enough protein in in my feeding window. I can't stomach 3 cans of Tuna a day. Should I consider a whey protein? I must admit I've always been suspicious of ingesting large amounts of powders? I take it they are perfectly safe?

Yeah protein is safe.

As a rule of thumb 1.5g-2g of protein per pound of bodyweight is a good measure.

Welcome to the group, Stronglifts is a great program to start on and I'd be interested in your experiences with leangains if you do, do it.

[Ordinary_Chap]

deadmau5 said:

I am going to try lean gains. I'll keep a weekly diary as well.

Good man, I'd be interested to see your experiences of it.

[Ordinary_Chap]

didelydoo said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Good man, I'd be interested to see your experiences of it.

Intermittent fasting makes the fat drop off like nothing else I've done before, so much so that I've stopped it out of fear of muscle wasting away over a prolonged period. Muscle mass seems to be maintained however.

Don't think it's the best way for bulking up, but excellent for shedding fat without having to have a strict diet.

How long did you fast for? Also what program/methodology did you use?

[Ordinary_Chap]

LordGrover said:

I've used fasting until both midday and 1800. It's surprising, but so long as when you eat, you eat you include good quality protein and good fats it's remarkably easy. I've never gone longer than five days in a week for a month IYSWIM.

Thanks LG, thats interesting!

Lee

[Ordinary_Chap]

didelydoo said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

How long did you fast for? Also what program/methodology did you use?

Did it from early March until a few weeks ago, went from ~94kg to ~90kg but got stronger. Eating window was between ~1300 an 2100. Found it really easy as I don't like eating in the morning anyway, lots of food at 1300, snack mid afternoon, big tea at 1800 then last food at 2100. Read a bunch of different IT stuff and picked what looked easiest/most convenient for me.

I'm now doing pretty much the same but am having 6 eggs at 0800, slowly and steadily gaining good weight. Will soon be adding in some more food in the afternoon as I want a better recovery from training.

Thanks for that, do you have any limits for foods calories wise or foods that are off limits?

[Ordinary_Chap]

So I've been trying something pretty radical diet wise over the past few weeks.

I've been running a modified v-diet and actually quite like it although the version I've been using is a lot less extreme than the actual version (probably because I'm a big girls blouse!).

http://velocity.t-nation.com/free_online_program/s...

I did actually start it as suggested although using my own supplements rather than the ones they are trying to state as being absolutely required for it to work.

So after about 4 days of running just on supplements, I found it was far too extreme for me and mixed with my famously bad moods when I'm hungry it wasn't a good combination. So I decided to add oats to the morning drink and one solid meal a day and this actually works quite well for me. The guide suggests I need between 1,450 calories (non work out days) and 1,800 calories (work out days) but I'm about 2000-2,300 calories a day otherwise I'm starving all day and its too difficult to get 250g's+ of protein a day on such a small number of calories although it is possible.

I've got to say the changes have been very dramatic in the short time I've been trying it. I've actually pondered continuing to run a modified version of it for the next few months.

[Ordinary_Chap]

LordGrover said:

Ever thought about changing your moniker, ExtraOrdinary_Chap?

Sounds a tad full on for mere mortals.

Thanks, I just like to try new things and push myself.

You know after all of my experiences and reading, I'm still unsure of the most effective method for either dieting or lifting, I think I've just come to the conclusion there's a ton of ways to be successful in this game, its just what works for you.

What I'm going to try to figure out is how to be lean all year round and keep growing. I've grown well but got fed up of getting fat during the process. I still wonder in the absence of drugs, if lots of calories are required. I've tried eating a small number of calories above what people call 'maintenance' and its never worked for me, so I've been exploring other ways of doing this stuff.

I'm going to try what you suggested LG next in your threads and this one I think. I'm also tempted by the anabolic diet.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Yeah, I agree I'm looking for the holy grail of training which probably doesn't exist, so in its place, I will keep testing, adapting and trying to find the way that works best for me.

My other half actually thinks I'm too big already but personally I feel very small and completely average but then I train with 'enhanced' folk so I guess it will always be this way.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Halb said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Yeah, I agree I'm looking for the holy grail of training which probably doesn't exist, so in its place, I will keep testing, adapting and trying to find the way that works best for me.

My other half actually thinks I'm too big already but personally I feel very small and completely average but then I train with 'enhanced' folk so I guess it will always be this way.

Ignore Hoofy, she's just jealous.

Now thats a scary thought!

Might not be able to sleep tonight with the nightmares!

[Ordinary_Chap]

It's good to see you posting in here Golblum!

Unlike most (including me) Goldblum has been here and done this, I'm still finding my way and my thinking keeps evolving.

Can you expand on cutting fat whilst growing muscle, as you can see from my above posts, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your logic on this.

I've always loved Dante's thoughts on the subject and tried some of his ideas and it did indeed work very well. I gained two stone (3 when you include the fat which I subsequently lost). I hated every minute of gaining so much and I also gained stretch marks on the tops of my legs (fortunately on the inside right at the top so not visible to anyone except the other half) from the fat/muscle I very quickly added.

I also followed Dante due to his phenomenal success with both amateurs like me and the pro's he's trained.

Dante said:

PAYING YOUR DUES

This post is for everyone in this forum--its very important to read over--VERY IMPORTANT. Want to know the average trainee that comes to me? He is 35-45 years old and after 10-15 years of lifting weighs 175 to 210lbs. He looks at me as the guy that somehow can pull a bunny out of a hat and make him that 250lb ripped bodybuilder walking the streets.... where he couldnt even get close to that level by himself. He is scrambling around because he doesnt want to get to 50 years old never feeling what it was like to walk thru a crowd and people gawk, stare, and point because he is a damn good bodybuilder. Well what the hell have you been doing all these years?!?!?! You should of put in your f*^&ing dues like the rest of us. These same guys think Im a miracle worker that can somehow add 80lbs of muscle mass on their frame while losing 30lbs of fat while keeping incredibly lean thruout the journey to get there. Well guess what? YOU fkED UP. Want to know the fastest way to walk around at 250 ripped--THE ABSOLUTELY G'DAMN FASTEST WAY TO GET THERE? TAKE 2 YEARS AND EAT HUGE AMOUNTS OF FOOD, AND TRAIN WITH BRUTALLY HEAVY WEIGHTS, AND BECOME A BIG FAT OFFENSIVE LINEMAN LOOKING GUY AT 330LBS....AND NO IT WONT BE PRETTY...AT ALL. MOST OF ALL DONT DO ANYTHING THAT COULD POSSIBLY EVEN IMPEDE THE SLIGHTEST IN MUSCLE MASS GAIN. Just eat copious amounts of food (up to 500-600 grams of protein) and bring your bodyweight up the charts which will allow you leverage and strength gains to allow you use the incredible weights you have to use in the gym to accomplish this. Then after being at that level for density reasons for awhile, you can slowly take it down and I mean slowly and most likely have the most muscle mass gain your genetics allowed in that time frame. That is the probably the fastest way in the shortest time to get there. But definitely not the most desirable but truth is truth. Am i recommending that approach--HELL NO, but if we are talking about getting this done as fast as humanly possible then I have to be blunt. Noone wants to look like a fat slob even if it means the end result will be much closer to their ideal. And these guys 35-45 years old want me to keep them pretty boy lean and wave the magic wand and make them into Milos Sarcev after they pretty much just wasted 10-15 years of training.

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=9658

Dante also suggests using cardio to keep weight under control. I always found this curious as it seems to be like eating the extra calories then negating them by doing cardio or am I missing something?

What are your thoughts on this Goldblum?

[Ordinary_Chap]

theshrew said:

So have / are any of you using gear then ?
Not really for me but tbh but just wondered what peoples experiences are with it

I know lots of people who do it, its really very common in gyms that aren't lifestyle gyms.

What do you want to know? I'm pretty clued up even though I don't do it myself.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Halb said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

I know lots of people who do it, its really very common in gyms that aren't lifestyle gyms.

I think it's probably also common even in the modern gyms than the average person would guess.
I remember watching a documentary about it a few years ago, the estimation of gym goers who were on it was staggeringly high, well over 50%. I still occasionally get people asking if I am on it in my gym, David Lloyd which is more of a lifestyle gym but with a decent free weights section.
I recall a fella selling it out of the boot of his car back at my old gym, Total Fitness, similar to DL.

I think the biggest thing I found was all of my thoughts about the people who do it were blown away. Most of the guys doing it are professionals and not the raging monsters I'd previously imagined from all of the stuff in the press.

I often get asked if I'm on 'the gear' and was even asked by some random dude in the street a few weeks back.

I always laugh and say I'd look a damn sight better if I were.

It's very easy to get hold of and use and I can't say I wouldn't do it if it wasn't for my medical conditions to be fair.

[Ordinary_Chap]

theshrew said:

I was just curious really. Your comment about getting bigger and putting on fat at the same time made me wonder.

For eg one of my mates is big he seemed to go from being 2 stone p1ss wet through skinny lad to being a monster in a fairly short space of time. I don't see him very often these days so maybe it just seemed that way to me but whenever I do see him he is never ever carrying and body fat at all. He's very dedicated etc think he trains pretty much everyday I suppose the hard work pays off. A lot of people say he must be on the gear but I've never asked tbh.

Presume the stuff just helps you get bigger without getting the flab ?

Yes its possible to grow rapidly and gain less fat using gear.

I'm not suggesting the chap is using anything as I don't know him and some people are genetically able to grow faster than normal but given the prevalence of the stuff and turning into a monster in a very short time, I'd be leaning towards it.

Still you've got to do all of the other stuff right to achieve great results, hard work, dedication, good training and diet.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Great post Lost_BMW and its good to see you again stranger!

Anavar or 'Var as its is known to be good for some purposes but obviously not for muscle gaining.

I do find it amazing watch some of the things this stuff can do although occasionally a little jealous of the massive difference it makes!

Random question has anyone on here tried the DC (dog crap) method of training? I've always loved the idea of being able to train each muscle twice a week but I'm not sure how good it would be for a natural with the recovery periods?