Vaccine side effects
Discussion
fridaypassion said:
I wonder what the future holds for antivaxxers?
My mate who is anti vax always posting crap on FB, thought I would challenge him in the pub.I asked if he had the TB jab as we all did as kids. Admitted had had a booster jab as got bitten by a dog. I questioned what the difference to cv19 jab was and he couldn't really answer, it seems antivaxxers pick and choose their arguments to suit.
The Spruce Goose said:
fridaypassion said:
I wonder what the future holds for antivaxxers?
My mate who is anti vax always posting crap on FB, thought I would challenge him in the pub.I asked if he had the TB jab as we all did as kids. Admitted had had a booster jab as got bitten by a dog. I questioned what the difference to cv19 jab was and he couldn't really answer, it seems antivaxxers pick and choose their arguments to suit.
Elatino1 said:
Sounds like you picked on an unarmed man. Just because he didn't have any answers it doesn't mean there are no answers. I'm sure you know the massive differences between a conventional vaccine and these new MRNA " vaccines"?
Never mentioned new vaccines and I've had the old type vaccine. It is just the mentality that they pick and choose what is deemed good and bad, when it suits it seems.It is like the flat earthers happy to take airplane trips. I think the real issue, is the human trait of becoming fixated and tunnel visioned on one point.
The Spruce Goose said:
fridaypassion said:
I wonder what the future holds for antivaxxers?
My mate who is anti vax always posting crap on FB, thought I would challenge him in the pub.I asked if he had the TB jab as we all did as kids. Admitted had had a booster jab as got bitten by a dog. I questioned what the difference to cv19 jab was and he couldn't really answer, it seems antivaxxers pick and choose their arguments to suit.
They have TB and the usual shots because "you do". But this came out the blue for them. They were told they could die, which for them can't be true. Then they are told there's a vaccine to stop them dying, from a thing they can't believe could kill them. Emotionally they just can't process that so they look for anything to fit that, and cling to it as true.
Munter said:
Right at the start of this I said people who can't confront their own mortality would be a problem. My money is on antivaxxers being those people.
They have TB and the usual shots because "you do". But this came out the blue for them. They were told they could die, which for them can't be true. Then they are told there's a vaccine to stop them dying, from a thing they can't believe could kill them. Emotionally they just can't process that so they look for anything to fit that, and cling to it as true.
Well he went off after an hour so probably didn't want to be questioned on it, but I thought I would ask as the stuff he is posting is getting more extreme and was worried for his mental health as he has become very isolated.They have TB and the usual shots because "you do". But this came out the blue for them. They were told they could die, which for them can't be true. Then they are told there's a vaccine to stop them dying, from a thing they can't believe could kill them. Emotionally they just can't process that so they look for anything to fit that, and cling to it as true.
fridaypassion said:
I wonder what the future holds for antivaxxers? There's no point arguing with them but it's a curious state. The virus is here to stay and from what it looks like these people will be denied the right to travel - to attend events and possibly even prevent them getting a job.
Its a curious position to take anyway I have a pal that reels off all these copy and paste misinformation stats. He's in the age group where you don't want to be running the risk. Unfortunately him and all the other "enlightened" folk will be getting a chance to test their theories over this winter when it's probable that everyone that hadn't already had covid will get a touch of it.
I think they will continue to be an increasingly loud minority. I know people who insist the earth is ~6000 years old who are equally as "interesting". Carbon dating, dendrochronology, etc are all just theories with no proof, but a discovery suggesting the fossil record may be a bit out is suddenly proof that it's all a giant conspiracy and the 'other side' can't be trusted.Its a curious position to take anyway I have a pal that reels off all these copy and paste misinformation stats. He's in the age group where you don't want to be running the risk. Unfortunately him and all the other "enlightened" folk will be getting a chance to test their theories over this winter when it's probable that everyone that hadn't already had covid will get a touch of it.
I see similar confirmation bias in the few antivaxxers I know. You can't just sit them down and shoot the probabilities to work out a best probable outcome. Everything has to be a big lie or hidden secret or just such an entrenched level of cynicism that there's no way a public health organisation can actually be working for the public good.
Social media has made me pessimistic about our debates in the west. A youtube video with a goofy face and some outrageous putdows will pull in several times the views of some dreary video on statistics and probability or a debate between two moderates arguing the toss over a point of order and the medium (including forums) seems to hinder our ability to judge a source.
In this very thread we see the difference in attention between someone mentioning their actual symptoms and a mud slinger with wild claims of miscarriage and asymptomatic viruses. Like Boris' £350M bus claim or nearly anything Trump said, the idea of such outlandish behavior is to create pages of useless attention rather than more sober analysis.
As we have said you can't argue with these people.
It's like Brexit again and it will be no surprise there will be a correlation between antivaxxers and brexit voters.
At least we won't have to endure being sat next to these people on the plane going on our jollies!
It's like Brexit again and it will be no surprise there will be a correlation between antivaxxers and brexit voters.
At least we won't have to endure being sat next to these people on the plane going on our jollies!
Edited by fridaypassion on Saturday 31st July 08:37
glazbagun said:
I think they will continue to be an increasingly loud minority. I know people who insist the earth is ~6000 years old who are equally as "interesting". Carbon dating, dendrochronology, etc are all just theories with no proof, but a discovery suggesting the fossil record may be a bit out is suddenly proof that it's all a giant conspiracy and the 'other side' can't be trusted.
I see similar confirmation bias in the few antivaxxers I know. You can't just sit them down and shoot the probabilities to work out a best probable outcome. Everything has to be a big lie or hidden secret or just such an entrenched level of cynicism that there's no way a public health organisation can actually be working for the public good.
Social media has made me pessimistic about our debates in the west. A youtube video with a goofy face and some outrageous putdows will pull in several times the views of some dreary video on statistics and probability or a debate between two moderates arguing the toss over a point of order and the medium (including forums) seems to hinder our ability to judge a source.
In this very thread we see the difference in attention between someone mentioning their actual symptoms and a mud slinger with wild claims of miscarriage and asymptomatic viruses. Like Boris' £350M bus claim or nearly anything Trump said, the idea of such outlandish behavior is to create pages of useless attention rather than more sober analysis.
Very true substitute antivaxxer for flat earth/royal family reptiles/new world order etc once cv19 dies down will move onto something else, probably 6g.I see similar confirmation bias in the few antivaxxers I know. You can't just sit them down and shoot the probabilities to work out a best probable outcome. Everything has to be a big lie or hidden secret or just such an entrenched level of cynicism that there's no way a public health organisation can actually be working for the public good.
Social media has made me pessimistic about our debates in the west. A youtube video with a goofy face and some outrageous putdows will pull in several times the views of some dreary video on statistics and probability or a debate between two moderates arguing the toss over a point of order and the medium (including forums) seems to hinder our ability to judge a source.
In this very thread we see the difference in attention between someone mentioning their actual symptoms and a mud slinger with wild claims of miscarriage and asymptomatic viruses. Like Boris' £350M bus claim or nearly anything Trump said, the idea of such outlandish behavior is to create pages of useless attention rather than more sober analysis.
Elatino1 said:
Sounds like you picked on an unarmed man. Just because he didn't have any answers it doesn't mean there are no answers. I'm sure you know the massive differences between a conventional vaccine and these new MRNA " vaccines"?
So much this! Assuming the story is true and not made up for the NPC to feel like he 'won', he probably waited until his mate was blind drunk before challenging him. Also it seems rather careless to be going to the pub, as the latest narrative says everyone can spread the virus, are peoples lives really worth your pint of beer? bmwmike said:
anti mask people - why do surgeons wear them if they are pointless?
Because it probably helps to avoid blood and other bodily fluids splattering on them given the circumstances of their work situation. You might also find at minimum they tend to be wearing proper fluid resistant surgical masks if not respirators which are single use and fitted properly, not manky cloth masks that are stuffed into a pocket then repeatedly reworn.
And it's pointless in terms of a daft govt mandate for the public to be forced to mask up which has nothing to do with why a surgeon may or may not wear one while working....
If the latest SAGE guidance is correct, the vaccination programme is going to have to keep going and going and if it can't stop transmission (delta is already showing the current vaccines can't) then they're likely to contribute to the likelihood of mutation.
The paper really is fairly grim reading and confirms what many experts have been saying for months.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-te...
The paper really is fairly grim reading and confirms what many experts have been saying for months.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-te...
Had my second jab a couple of weeks ago. Had a cold come on day before. Nothing major, just a sore throat, but by coincidence I had full on man-flu when I got my first jab.
I felt like crap the next day and not right for 4 days afterwards. With the first jab I couldn't tell if it was man flu of side effects of the vaccine.
I felt like crap the next day and not right for 4 days afterwards. With the first jab I couldn't tell if it was man flu of side effects of the vaccine.
isaldiri said:
You might also find at minimum they tend to be wearing proper fluid resistant surgical masks if not respirators which are single use and fitted properly, not manky cloth masks that are stuffed into a pocket then repeatedly reworn.
And it's pointless in terms of a daft govt mandate for the public to be forced to mask up which has nothing to do with why a surgeon may or may not wear one while working....
I do not get your point though, are you against govt mandate for mandatory mask wearing in small confined spaces like public transport? I wish we can force that permanently in the future, I do not know when was the last time you took tube (TFL) but our public is not so sensitive about not to cough or sneeze into people’s faces. And it's pointless in terms of a daft govt mandate for the public to be forced to mask up which has nothing to do with why a surgeon may or may not wear one while working....
UK, London specifically over-crowded and many people end up in small-confined spaces so Taleb’s point is clear with masks; Compounding effect. That’s why Im giving Tokyo example as japanese culture got how to deal with overcrowding and hygiene. In Tokyo, its also prohibited to eat in public transport and even outside busy streets, there are signs everywhere. If we were like Switzerland, Sweden or Denmark (population and behaviours) I would also say hell with masks but we are not.
ooid said:
isaldiri said:
You might also find at minimum they tend to be wearing proper fluid resistant surgical masks if not respirators which are single use and fitted properly, not manky cloth masks that are stuffed into a pocket then repeatedly reworn.
And it's pointless in terms of a daft govt mandate for the public to be forced to mask up which has nothing to do with why a surgeon may or may not wear one while working....
I do not get your point though, are you against govt mandate for mandatory mask wearing in small confined spaces like public transport? I wish we can force that permanently in the future, I do not know when was the last time you took tube (TFL) but our public is not so sensitive about not to cough or sneeze into people’s faces. And it's pointless in terms of a daft govt mandate for the public to be forced to mask up which has nothing to do with why a surgeon may or may not wear one while working....
UK, London specifically over-crowded and many people end up in small-confined spaces so Taleb’s point is clear with masks; Compounding effect. That’s why Im giving Tokyo example as japanese culture got how to deal with overcrowding and hygiene. In Tokyo, its also prohibited to eat in public transport and even outside busy streets, there are signs everywhere. If we were like Switzerland, Sweden or Denmark (population and behaviours) I would also say hell with masks but we are not.
If people want to protect themselves as they are worried about covid or indeed any other respiratory virus (which I entirely can understand), wear a N95 that actually helps rather than requiring everyone else around wear some useless cloth ones badly.
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