PH Losers 2020 - Anyone want to join me?
Discussion
Smitters said:
giblet said:
Smitters said:
I track calories using MFP - it's as useful for avoiding over-doing things as it is for being aware that more food is required on training days. It's also a good thing to know what components of the meal were big calorie givers. If it's not the main and healthy features of the meal, it's an easy way to cut bad calories out or substitute them with healthier options.
For me, under-eating is more impactful on my training than anything else. Recovery just takes forever without the appropriate nutrition.
My main issue is trying to work out the bare minimum calories I should drop to. MFP has suggested 1500 max per day but seems to throw a wobble whenever I am sub 1200. I’m on 500 so far for today, dinner is likely to be 450 so that leaves me on sub 1000 which probably isn’t wise if I’m heading to the gym tonight or doing some weights at homeFor me, under-eating is more impactful on my training than anything else. Recovery just takes forever without the appropriate nutrition.
Going below 1200 is only sustainable for a short period (a few weeks) and while it will work, I found I felt pretty horrible. MFP panics for liability reasons I suspect. Even 1500 is low for the majority of people. Unless you're 165cm tall and 70kg or less, 1500 will be low enough.
With MFP - make sure you record the exercise you're doing, either by linking to your Strava/fitness tracking app, or manually - it'll add calories back on, so say you do an hour in the gym, which equals ~400 kcal burnt, your new daily target will be 1900kcal total.
I've found not all calories are equal, so if I hit, or even slightly exceed my MFP target, but all the calories are good ones, I'm still losing weight. Plus, with good calories, I'm less likely to exceed the target because I feel fuller throughout the day. Soup, noodles and protein I find particularly good.
Therefore, the onus for me is more on getting 1500-1800 net calories in, 90% of which are good (there is Bourville chocolate in there...), I'm losing ~1-2 pounds per week, but it feels very sustainable and I don't suffer any side-effects. In fact (gasp) it's almost like it's not a diet and just a sustainable healthy lifestyle. Dammit! I've been tricked into this!
In terms of my own progress, a lot of my clothes are starting to feel roomier, but my side-view when glanced in the mirrors in the gym is still one of a dad-bod - far too thick in the middle. I'm very aware I don't want fatty organs any more than I want a tubby looking body. I have seen my Dad and so I know my future if I don't take care. Plus, I've always been a mesomorph to exomorph bodyshape, putting on muscle or fat with ease, despite being just 170cm tall. I seem far better suited for weights and powerlifting than running, but hey ho. You love what you love.
Managed to drop 1.2kg since the start of the year without really putting a huge amount of effort in, I'm meal prepping for at least half the week and allowing myself one cheat day but even then I try to remain sensible on that day. 16-8 during the week means I snack a lot less than I used to which is good.
Much like you I suffer from being too thick in the middle, it's where the majority of my excess weight lives annoyingly. Looking into changing my exercise routine a bit by joining a boxing gym or at least trying out a few classes there to see if that helps move things along
Firstly it is a nightmare, because from what I can gather, there are no definitive answers.
There is also a load of bro science out there, to which I'll add to below
:
To lose weight you need a calorie deficit. There are 3,500kcal in 1lb of fat which happens to add up to 7days x -500kcal in a week. So if you eat 500kcal less than you use everyday, you in theory lose 1lb of fat a week*.
To calculate a calorie deficit you need to know what you burn.
The starting point is your BMR. What your body actually uses to keep functioning if you only lay in bed all day.
You then track and add on the calories you use in addition to this, so fitbit, apple watch, pulsar etc. This will give you your total calories out. If you don't have fitbit etc, then there are generic guidelines on moderate/high levels of exercise. You'll see these on the online calculators. See here for example: https://www.calculator.net/bmr-calculator.html
Re food in, firstly use MyFitnessPal or similar to accurately, honestly and obsessively track your food intake during the day.
If you do all that, you've made a big first step.
The problem with calorie deficit/weight loss is that you don't just 'burn' fat (you don't actually burn it at all, you simply turn it into CO2 and water) you also 'burn' muscle as well. So if you just diet on its own, you will get skinnier but that'll because you'll have less fat and muscle.
To minimise your muscle loss you can eat high levels of protein. Generally 2g per 1kg of bodyweight. This is hard, you have to work at it, hence protein shake supplements etc.
Try and take onboard protein within 45 mins of completing exercise (complicated things about your body seeking energy from your muscles).
Also lift weights as this reduces muscle loss, stimulates muscle growth and your body continues to work after the workout burning more energy. Muscle also burns more energy so the more of it you have, the quicker you'll lose weight.
Protein has the added benefit of make you feel full as well, so you will feel less hungry.
You can play with the other macros (carbs and fat), but tbh you'll drive yourself made with it. Just eat clean nutritionally dense foods and if you're packing in the protein, everything else sort of falls into place. Just avoid empty calories such as sugar and alcohol.
Also remember to eat fibre. You will soon learn that if you're on a high protein diet
Lots of hype around Intermittent Fasting (IF). 5:2 essentially means that you miss one day's food per week to lose weight. I'm doing 16:8 as eating between 12 noon and 8pm suits my lifestyle. Seems to be working for me.
Keto is another kettle of fish and there are separate threads on this, but this triggers a very specific physiological response to normal weight loss. Personally I've found it works really well, and I don't find it too hard to keep to, but you (or at least I) can't do hard cardio on it without feeling dreadful afterwards.
All of that seems very complicated and the more you read about it, the easier it is to confuse yourself.
TL:DR Keep it simple bro (science):
ETA 2g per kg bodyweight protein
There is also a load of bro science out there, to which I'll add to below
:To lose weight you need a calorie deficit. There are 3,500kcal in 1lb of fat which happens to add up to 7days x -500kcal in a week. So if you eat 500kcal less than you use everyday, you in theory lose 1lb of fat a week*.
To calculate a calorie deficit you need to know what you burn.
The starting point is your BMR. What your body actually uses to keep functioning if you only lay in bed all day.
You then track and add on the calories you use in addition to this, so fitbit, apple watch, pulsar etc. This will give you your total calories out. If you don't have fitbit etc, then there are generic guidelines on moderate/high levels of exercise. You'll see these on the online calculators. See here for example: https://www.calculator.net/bmr-calculator.html
Re food in, firstly use MyFitnessPal or similar to accurately, honestly and obsessively track your food intake during the day.
If you do all that, you've made a big first step.
The problem with calorie deficit/weight loss is that you don't just 'burn' fat (you don't actually burn it at all, you simply turn it into CO2 and water) you also 'burn' muscle as well. So if you just diet on its own, you will get skinnier but that'll because you'll have less fat and muscle.
To minimise your muscle loss you can eat high levels of protein. Generally 2g per 1kg of bodyweight. This is hard, you have to work at it, hence protein shake supplements etc.
Try and take onboard protein within 45 mins of completing exercise (complicated things about your body seeking energy from your muscles).
Also lift weights as this reduces muscle loss, stimulates muscle growth and your body continues to work after the workout burning more energy. Muscle also burns more energy so the more of it you have, the quicker you'll lose weight.
Protein has the added benefit of make you feel full as well, so you will feel less hungry.
You can play with the other macros (carbs and fat), but tbh you'll drive yourself made with it. Just eat clean nutritionally dense foods and if you're packing in the protein, everything else sort of falls into place. Just avoid empty calories such as sugar and alcohol.
Also remember to eat fibre. You will soon learn that if you're on a high protein diet
Lots of hype around Intermittent Fasting (IF). 5:2 essentially means that you miss one day's food per week to lose weight. I'm doing 16:8 as eating between 12 noon and 8pm suits my lifestyle. Seems to be working for me.
Keto is another kettle of fish and there are separate threads on this, but this triggers a very specific physiological response to normal weight loss. Personally I've found it works really well, and I don't find it too hard to keep to, but you (or at least I) can't do hard cardio on it without feeling dreadful afterwards.
All of that seems very complicated and the more you read about it, the easier it is to confuse yourself.
TL:DR Keep it simple bro (science):
ETA 2g per kg bodyweight protein
Edited by ben5575 on Tuesday 14th January 15:41
ben5575 said:
Firstly it is a nightmare, because from what I can gather, there are no definitive answers.
<snip>
All of that seems very complicated and the more you read about it, the easier it is to confuse yourself.
Thanks for all that. The last statement is very true <snip>
All of that seems very complicated and the more you read about it, the easier it is to confuse yourself.
Have tweaked my protein levels up a bit and and split carbs and fat 50/50 as a rough target for now. Will see how that goes.
Cheers.
Christ, I need to be taking on a LOT more protein then... I had 144g today but under the 2g per kg I should be taking on nearly 300g on the days I'm training. Something to talk to the PT about on Saturday!
@ben5575 - the Fitbit and BLE HRM both agreed on tonight's workout so I genuinely am burning that many calories per session then:
Fitbit recorded 1676 calories, the HRM recorded 1791 - but the Fitbit didn't log the 5 mins rowing warmup which would account for some of the missing 115 calories (and allowing some minor discrepancy/leeway between what the two report - they're close enough!).
For a little watch working off a heart rate through the skin the Fitbit's pretty impressive!
@ben5575 - the Fitbit and BLE HRM both agreed on tonight's workout so I genuinely am burning that many calories per session then:
Fitbit recorded 1676 calories, the HRM recorded 1791 - but the Fitbit didn't log the 5 mins rowing warmup which would account for some of the missing 115 calories (and allowing some minor discrepancy/leeway between what the two report - they're close enough!).
For a little watch working off a heart rate through the skin the Fitbit's pretty impressive!
Edited by Funk on Tuesday 14th January 23:42
I think I would actually die if I ate 300g of protein 
The consensus is 0.7-1g per 1lb, so at 144kg, that's 221g to 300g which is a little more reasonable.
Good news on the fitbit front. Thanks for posting that, it's very helpful/interesting.
And always trust your professional PT over some bloke on the internet!
The consensus is 0.7-1g per 1lb, so at 144kg, that's 221g to 300g which is a little more reasonable.
Good news on the fitbit front. Thanks for posting that, it's very helpful/interesting.
And always trust your professional PT over some bloke on the internet!
ben5575 said:
I think I would actually die if I ate 300g of protein
The consensus is 0.7-1g per 1lb, so at 144kg, that's 221g to 300g which is a little more reasonable.
Good news on the fitbit front. Thanks for posting that, it's very helpful/interesting.
And always trust your professional PT over some bloke on the internet!
If there's one thing I've learned over the years it's that pros in any industry just LOVE it when someone says, "Yeah but...I read on the internet that...."The consensus is 0.7-1g per 1lb, so at 144kg, that's 221g to 300g which is a little more reasonable.
Good news on the fitbit front. Thanks for posting that, it's very helpful/interesting.
And always trust your professional PT over some bloke on the internet!
Funk said:
If there's one thing I've learned over the years it's that pros in any industry just LOVE it when someone says, "Yeah but...I read on the internet that...."
Imagine how much weight "...but I read on this car forum..." is going to carry! Mind you, my GP Googled something in front of me once. I actually thought it was cool - look it up instead of bluffing it.There's nothing wrong with research of course, but at the end of the day, there just isn't a magic bullet or a shortcut. The rude truth is weight loss occurs mainly in the kitchen, not the gym, and that the fresher and closer to it's basic state the food is, the better it is for you. All things in moderation, lots of colours on your plate, a short list of ingredients on packets, all of which you can pronounce. Yadda yadda yadda.
At the end of the day, it's willpower, avoiding your personal pitfalls and points of failure (Maoam Pinballs from the petrol station? I now pay at pump...) and making sure you forgive yourself for the odd slip-up. It's ok now and then, just as long as it's not every day.
It's just not easy to stick to. I have known all this for eight years. I've gone from 88kg to 68kg, back to hovering around 72-75, then slowly crept back up to 81kg from a low of 72 last spring. I'm heavily influenced by what my Mrs is eating, how work, training and my own mental state is going. Even down to the personalities on this thread! Last year, there was one jarring poster and I just quit the thread because it became too frustrating. But, and here's the positive, each time I start to lose again, it's from a lower point, I get back on track a bit sooner and it lasts a little longer. The eventual aim is just to always eat like this, make it a habit, but until that sticks, I'll just keep on rolling and try to minimise the bad stretches.
Smitters said:
Funk said:
If there's one thing I've learned over the years it's that pros in any industry just LOVE it when someone says, "Yeah but...I read on the internet that...."
Imagine how much weight "...but I read on this car forum..." is going to carry! Mind you, my GP Googled something in front of me once. I actually thought it was cool - look it up instead of bluffing it.There's nothing wrong with research of course, but at the end of the day, there just isn't a magic bullet or a shortcut. The rude truth is weight loss occurs mainly in the kitchen, not the gym, and that the fresher and closer to it's basic state the food is, the better it is for you. All things in moderation, lots of colours on your plate, a short list of ingredients on packets, all of which you can pronounce. Yadda yadda yadda.
At the end of the day, it's willpower, avoiding your personal pitfalls and points of failure (Maoam Pinballs from the petrol station? I now pay at pump...) and making sure you forgive yourself for the odd slip-up. It's ok now and then, just as long as it's not every day.
It's just not easy to stick to. I have known all this for eight years. I've gone from 88kg to 68kg, back to hovering around 72-75, then slowly crept back up to 81kg from a low of 72 last spring. I'm heavily influenced by what my Mrs is eating, how work, training and my own mental state is going. Even down to the personalities on this thread! Last year, there was one jarring poster and I just quit the thread because it became too frustrating. But, and here's the positive, each time I start to lose again, it's from a lower point, I get back on track a bit sooner and it lasts a little longer. The eventual aim is just to always eat like this, make it a habit, but until that sticks, I'll just keep on rolling and try to minimise the bad stretches.
I know where two of my biggest gaps are too - I don't sleep enough (the Fitbit's saying 5-6 hours a night and not much of that in deep sleep, it's mostly light; again, assuming it's broadly accurate..) and I don't cook enough fresh food with variety. I know these are areas that will need to be addressed in order to really boost my weight-loss and fitness plans going forward.
After first weigh in on the scales I’ve lost 5lbs.
Quite happy with that, especially after a night out last weekend with beers and big meal.
Still no soft drinks so happy with that, need to up my water intake though.
As an added determination boost, my brothers started the Herbalife stuff.
I want to see if I can lose weight without having that stuff.
Quite happy with that, especially after a night out last weekend with beers and big meal.
Still no soft drinks so happy with that, need to up my water intake though.
As an added determination boost, my brothers started the Herbalife stuff.
I want to see if I can lose weight without having that stuff.
Some good figures being posted on here recently, great work and keep it up! 
Another 0.7kg lost this week, taking me close top 24kg lost in 28 weeks. I'm a little behind the target (aiming for a kilo a week) but seeing as Christmas has just come and gone & I'm now down with the flu, I'll take any loss this week.
Can't wait till the better weather comes & I start feeling more like walking again!
Another 0.7kg lost this week, taking me close top 24kg lost in 28 weeks. I'm a little behind the target (aiming for a kilo a week) but seeing as Christmas has just come and gone & I'm now down with the flu, I'll take any loss this week.
Can't wait till the better weather comes & I start feeling more like walking again!
Ran home again last night making the equivalent of a marathon so far in January. Weighed myself this morning and was 16st13.8, so just under 17st. Was 17st5 at the start, 2kg loss so far. Nowhere near as impressive as some but I'll take that.
Edited by S100HP on Thursday 16th January 09:23
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