Reversing Type 2 Diabetes
Discussion
If you're in a hurry and too hungry to skip breakfast, a slice or two of cheese and some ham will fill you up for hours without a blood-glucose spike. Porridge might fill you up with bulk, but yikes, that's gonna take some insulin to counteract!
The whole mantra of breakfast being the most important meal of the day is absolutely unfounded, probably invented by Kellogg's marketing department, and the benefits of skipping it (or more generally extending your fast a bit longer) are well documented.
Regulating carb intake will reduce hunger spikes, so you may find that if you had a low-carb, fatty (filling) evening meal the night before, you're not actually hungry till lunchtime the next day. This is how I operate. I don't consciously suffer to skip breakfast; I genuinely don't need it.
The whole mantra of breakfast being the most important meal of the day is absolutely unfounded, probably invented by Kellogg's marketing department, and the benefits of skipping it (or more generally extending your fast a bit longer) are well documented.
Regulating carb intake will reduce hunger spikes, so you may find that if you had a low-carb, fatty (filling) evening meal the night before, you're not actually hungry till lunchtime the next day. This is how I operate. I don't consciously suffer to skip breakfast; I genuinely don't need it.
TartanPaint said:
If you're in a hurry and too hungry to skip breakfast, a slice or two of cheese and some ham will fill you up for hours without a blood-glucose spike. Porridge might fill you up with bulk, but yikes, that's gonna take some insulin to counteract!
The whole mantra of breakfast being the most important meal of the day is absolutely unfounded, probably invented by Kellogg's marketing department, and the benefits of skipping it (or more generally extending your fast a bit longer) are well documented.
Regulating carb intake will reduce hunger spikes, so you may find that if you had a low-carb, fatty (filling) evening meal the night before, you're not actually hungry till lunchtime the next day. This is how I operate. I don't consciously suffer to skip breakfast; I genuinely don't need it.
Indeed. I very rarely eat breakfast at the moment. Not because of some “fasting fad” but because I’m simply not hungry. Mostly because my body is now in perfect homeostasis and takes care of itself without me screwing it up by dumping huge amounts of glucose and insulin into it three times a day The whole mantra of breakfast being the most important meal of the day is absolutely unfounded, probably invented by Kellogg's marketing department, and the benefits of skipping it (or more generally extending your fast a bit longer) are well documented.
Regulating carb intake will reduce hunger spikes, so you may find that if you had a low-carb, fatty (filling) evening meal the night before, you're not actually hungry till lunchtime the next day. This is how I operate. I don't consciously suffer to skip breakfast; I genuinely don't need it.
It's the whole feedback loop that interests me most, the way everything seems to just fit together when you reduce/eliminate refined carbs. It's all inter-related, and it "feels" correct. Like this is how we're supposed to eat (because it is.... for millions of years before Mr Kellogg came along).
Less hunger, less snacking, more stable blood glucose, more stable energy levels, longer fasting periods, which leads to more stable blood glucose, which reduces hunger pangs... and so it goes on.
The opposite is true too. Break the cycle with a bowl of pasta and I'm hungry every few hours again, and sleepy after big meals, and reaching for snacks in between for a boost, and waking up with a rumbling stomach, and it's easy to see how that cycle feeds back as well, to keep me dependant on carbs.
Less hunger, less snacking, more stable blood glucose, more stable energy levels, longer fasting periods, which leads to more stable blood glucose, which reduces hunger pangs... and so it goes on.
The opposite is true too. Break the cycle with a bowl of pasta and I'm hungry every few hours again, and sleepy after big meals, and reaching for snacks in between for a boost, and waking up with a rumbling stomach, and it's easy to see how that cycle feeds back as well, to keep me dependant on carbs.
TartanPaint said:
It's the whole feedback loop that interests me most, the way everything seems to just fit together when you reduce/eliminate refined carbs. It's all inter-related, and it "feels" correct. Like this is how we're supposed to eat (because it is.... for millions of years before Mr Kellogg came along).
Less hunger, less snacking, more stable blood glucose, more stable energy levels, longer fasting periods, which leads to more stable blood glucose, which reduces hunger pangs... and so it goes on.
The opposite is true too. Break the cycle with a bowl of pasta and I'm hungry every few hours again, and sleepy after big meals, and reaching for snacks in between for a boost, and waking up with a rumbling stomach, and it's easy to see how that cycle feeds back as well, to keep me dependant on carbs.
I’m absolutely on the same page with you. I feel at one with nature, in ketosis. I’m never hungry in the popular sense. My body never says “grrr I’m starving”. I just know when I need to eat. The thought pops into my head that I’d love some tasty lunch or dinner, and that’s that. I look forward to my next meal but it could be four hours away and not bother me. It’s a desire for tasty sustenance, not a need to stuff my belly to avoid impending death.Less hunger, less snacking, more stable blood glucose, more stable energy levels, longer fasting periods, which leads to more stable blood glucose, which reduces hunger pangs... and so it goes on.
The opposite is true too. Break the cycle with a bowl of pasta and I'm hungry every few hours again, and sleepy after big meals, and reaching for snacks in between for a boost, and waking up with a rumbling stomach, and it's easy to see how that cycle feeds back as well, to keep me dependant on carbs.
It does indeed feel exactly like this is the way our bodies are supposed to operate. Very enlightening, and a delightful way to live. Free from the shackles of debilitating hunger if I miss breakfast. I am in no doubt that this is how it’s meant to be. And it’s logically sound. Early man did not have access to boxes of Special K, or fields full of genetically engineered super-wheat. Nor did he have access to year-round fruit, and he was most certainly able to go a few days between meals if food was scarce, without proclaiming - “my stomach thinks my throat’s been cut”.
There is also the rather pertinent fact that it’s reversed all symptoms of my metabolic disorder. The role of insulin in evolving humans was to regulate fat storage and deal with carbohydrates and protein as and when they were consumed. It’s not supposed to be dumped into our bloodstream in huge quantities all day every day as a general coping mechanism, and this is exactly why people with low sensitivity get fat and diabetic when they follow the ludicrous 1977 food pyramid.
TartanPaint said:
zygalski said:
Kenny Powers said:
Varying degrees of insulin sensitivity have nothing to do with it at all then?
Why the sudden increase in T2 & obesity in the last 30 or 40 years?I doubt that genetic changes can account for any of that....
The food pyramid: We've been told to get the bulk of our calories from carbs, but the diagrams show bread, pasta, potatoes at the bottom of the pyramid as the main sources for this, which is all refined carbs.
All that nonsense about eggs and cholesterol being dangerous. We know this isn't true now, but it's too late. Nobody goes to work on an egg any more. We have cereal instead, which is just about the worst way to break a fast.
People think fruit juices are healthy. They're a reasonably modern invention to make surplus fruit into a product. We also grow fruit all year round and import. It's no longer seasonal.
Increasingly sedentary lifestyles.
Some other things in recent history, but maybe not exactly 30-40 years ago, like war necessitating an increase in dried foods and rationing of meat/dairy/eggs changed behaviour long term.
Refrigeration changing the way we shop for groceries, and supermarket shelf-life driving added sugar into products.
There's probably loads more I can't think of right now, but it's no one big thing, but it's all related to sugar sugar sugar.
EDIT: More.
High Fructose Corn Syrup. What a mistake that was!
Lobbying/pressure from grain farmers and the sugar industry. It sounds a bit conspiracy/tin-foil-hattish, but it's a massive contributor to the continuation of very flawed policies. It's a bit like slowing a supertanker. If we stop eating (and therefore producing) grains overnight, entire western economies will fall apart.
To change advice on eating, governments would have to admit that the present advice is wrong, and the liability for all the related illnesses might be impossible to admit.
Edited by TartanPaint on Friday 3rd August 09:23
Seems like this obvious advice is being ignored more & more.
I don't recall anyone saying switch from a high fat diet to a high sugar one.
People have to take responsibility for how many calories they take in (and from which sources) and also how much or little exercise they do.
What you post seems like an apologist stance on people who want to sit on their sofas all day & not ever bother reading the nutritional information on the food they consume.
Telling people they are lazy and responsible for their own fatness and death is not useful at all.
I know a few people who put massive efforts into losing weight through diet and exercise time and time again, and they fail. Far more effort than I did by simply changing what I eat.
I don't think it's always effort. It's that people have been given bad information their entire lives and there's nobody out there changing the information, because that supertanker cannot be turned around.
My sister tries and tries to lose weight by eating low fat food. I suspect she's pre-diabetic, so that's never going to work. She cannot undesrtand any advice that isn't "eat low fat versions of everything" or "stick to weight watchers points" and she's fat and permanently hungry and tired. The more she exercises (and she does) the more she runs out of energy and crashes. But will she have some sausage or cheese? No, it's a "nutrition bar" or some other s
t, because she's been told her entire life that low fat is healthy, oats are healthy, fruit is healthy.
I know a few people who put massive efforts into losing weight through diet and exercise time and time again, and they fail. Far more effort than I did by simply changing what I eat.
I don't think it's always effort. It's that people have been given bad information their entire lives and there's nobody out there changing the information, because that supertanker cannot be turned around.
My sister tries and tries to lose weight by eating low fat food. I suspect she's pre-diabetic, so that's never going to work. She cannot undesrtand any advice that isn't "eat low fat versions of everything" or "stick to weight watchers points" and she's fat and permanently hungry and tired. The more she exercises (and she does) the more she runs out of energy and crashes. But will she have some sausage or cheese? No, it's a "nutrition bar" or some other s
t, because she's been told her entire life that low fat is healthy, oats are healthy, fruit is healthy.Your sister is insulin resistant and her low fat diet will make her worse until she’s diabetic. Sorry to say it 
ETA: but a pharmaceutical company will be along shortly to help out, and the agriculture industry will supply the healthy whole grains that she needs to get better. The entire system is a travesty
ETA: but a pharmaceutical company will be along shortly to help out, and the agriculture industry will supply the healthy whole grains that she needs to get better. The entire system is a travesty
Edited by Kenny Powers on Friday 3rd August 14:07
Kenny Powers said:
It does indeed feel exactly like this is the way our bodies are supposed to operate. Very enlightening, and a delightful way to live. Free from the shackles of debilitating hunger if I miss breakfast. I am in no doubt that this is how it’s meant to be. And it’s logically sound. Early man did not have access to boxes of Special K, or fields full of genetically engineered super-wheat. Nor did he have access to year-round fruit, and he was most certainly able to go a few days between meals if food was scarce, without proclaiming - “my stomach thinks my throat’s been cut”.
How much double cream or dairy in general do you think early man had access to? Or are you only interested in what ‘early man’ did when it fits your narrative?
FWIW if I go on to say an anti vaccination website I imagine they will be talking about ‘early man’ as well.
‘early man’ can be used to fit anything and people generally go a long with it, IMO.
I genuinely cannot be bothered to debate it any further. If anyone thinks they can reverse type 2 diabetes by eating a “healthy balanced diet” then fair enough. All I will say is good luck to them if they ever get it
ETA: saturated animal fat does not have to be double cream.
Edited by Kenny Powers on Friday 3rd August 14:59
Kenny Powers said:
I genuinely cannot be bothered to debate it any further. If anyone thinks they can reverse type 2 diabetes by eating a “healthy balanced diet” then fair enough. All I will say is good luck to them if they ever get it
ETA: saturated animal fat does not have to be double cream.
Edited by Kenny Powers on Friday 3rd August 14:59
Your diet is effective in managing it.
No one disagrees with you about its effectiveness in managing it.
There is no debate on the diet, really.
But you don’t just leave it at the diet. It’s like a religion for you. You can’t just be happy with your lot you have to implicitly and explicitly criticise paths taken by people who don’t have your diesease and are fit healthy people (as you are). Using this nonsense example of early man when your lifestyle would be completely unrecognisable to someone who lived millions of years a go is just one example.
Edited by gregs656 on Friday 3rd August 15:22
gregs656 said:
Ok. You have not reversed your diabetes. You are managing it.
Your diet is effective in managing it.
No one disagrees with you about its effectiveness in managing it.
There is no debate on the diet, really.
But you don’t just leave it at the diet. It’s like a religion for you. You can’t just be happy with your lot you have to implicitly and explicitly criticise paths taken by people who don’t have your diesease and are fit healthy people. Using this nonsense example of early man when your lifestyle would be completely unrecognisable to someone who lived millions of years a go is just one example.
No I’m not managing it. I have reversed it through diet. Reversal is generally accepted as no further symptoms, and without medication. Of course I’m still insulin resistant. And yes it is like a religion. Taking it so seriously most likely saved me from very serious complications later in life. Forgive my enthusiasm.Your diet is effective in managing it.
No one disagrees with you about its effectiveness in managing it.
There is no debate on the diet, really.
But you don’t just leave it at the diet. It’s like a religion for you. You can’t just be happy with your lot you have to implicitly and explicitly criticise paths taken by people who don’t have your diesease and are fit healthy people. Using this nonsense example of early man when your lifestyle would be completely unrecognisable to someone who lived millions of years a go is just one example.
With regards to criticism, are you aware that you just jumped into a topic you know nothing about, in order to have your opinion heard? Do you know what irony means?
I won’t be drawn into further debate with you on this subject.
Kenny Powers said:
No I’m not managing it. I have reversed it through diet. Reversal is generally accepted as no further symptoms, and without medication. Of course I’m still insulin resistant. And yes it is like a religion. Taking it so seriously most likely saved me from very serious complications later in life. Forgive my enthusiasm.
With regards to criticism, are you aware that you just jumped into a topic you know nothing about, in order to have your opinion heard? Do you know what irony means?
I won’t be drawn into further debate with you on this subject.
You are managing it. You still have it. If you couldn't maintain your diet for what ever reason your symptoms would return. Call it in remission if you like but reversal it is not.With regards to criticism, are you aware that you just jumped into a topic you know nothing about, in order to have your opinion heard? Do you know what irony means?
I won’t be drawn into further debate with you on this subject.
Like a preacher you dress up a genuinely useful message in guff and see anyone who challenges you as not as enlightened. I am not the first person to pick you up on this.
gregs656 said:
Ok. You have not reversed your diabetes. You are managing it.
Your diet is effective in managing it.
No one disagrees with you about its effectiveness in managing it.
There is no debate on the diet, really.
But you don’t just leave it at the diet. It’s like a religion for you. You can’t just be happy with your lot you have to implicitly and explicitly criticise paths taken by people who don’t have your diesease and are fit healthy people (as you are). Using this nonsense example of early man when your lifestyle would be completely unrecognisable to someone who lived millions of years a go is just one example.
I assume you checked the title of this thread before beginning a personal attack on someone for their views because you have take offense for some reason? Your diet is effective in managing it.
No one disagrees with you about its effectiveness in managing it.
There is no debate on the diet, really.
But you don’t just leave it at the diet. It’s like a religion for you. You can’t just be happy with your lot you have to implicitly and explicitly criticise paths taken by people who don’t have your diesease and are fit healthy people (as you are). Using this nonsense example of early man when your lifestyle would be completely unrecognisable to someone who lived millions of years a go is just one example.
Edited by gregs656 on Friday 3rd August 15:22
Try reading more of the thread and some of the medically evidenced research that is quoted in the thread and you may begin to understand what so many people in the world fail to appreciate, which has resulted in a global poor health epidemic over the past 40 odd years. Since 1977 to be exact.
Some lucky people are less insulin resistant (IR) than others, at least 50% (probably 70% as age increases) are not so lucky and are IR. The ONLY way to prevent serious illness and an early death is to change the eating habits of these IR people and for them to each far less carbs. There is NO argument to this fact, this have been proven medically and published over many decades, but most people have ignored it.
These facts go against all government (in many countries) policy related to healthy eating and medical training practices at present. But things are changing and quickly.
I suggest you keep an open mind, read more and try not to take offense to someone who has a different opinion to you because they are well read and informed.
Phil. said:
I assume you checked the title of this thread before beginning a personal attack on someone for their views because you have take offense for some reason?
Did you see the line 'there is no debate about the diet, really'I have no problem with keto. I have recommended it on these boards even.
Just don't preach to me. It's wearing. Not offensive. Wearing.
gregs656 said:
Did you see the line 'there is no debate about the diet, really'
I have no problem with keto. I have recommended it on these boards even.
Just don't preach to me. It's wearing. Not offensive. Wearing.
Don’t read or contribute to this thread when you are ill informed and you won’t find it wearing. Easy. I have no problem with keto. I have recommended it on these boards even.
Just don't preach to me. It's wearing. Not offensive. Wearing.
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